Chinese banquets: All types!

[eatingwitheddie]

Chinese banquet cooking is a specialty all to its self. Elaborately decorated platters, luxurious foods, special attention from the kitchen staff are what it's about. Head chefs can strut their stuff, especially when they're cooking for a table of 10.

Any interesting experiences you can remember and share? Any other thoughts?

[Jaymes]

I have been to two large Chinese banquets. Both were "interesting," to say the least.

One was in Hong Kong - a big business banquet in honor of a friend that I was dating. It was in a private home - a mansion high on Victoria, overlooking Kowloon and the harbor.

Many interesting things. First of note was that in the large room which appeared to me to be intended for parties and banquets there were at least four or five rounds of ten. I was the only woman at the dinner table and it was explained that because I was a friend of the honoree, I was a distinguished guest. It went unsaid, but was obvious, that because I was a woman, they had made an exception in allowing me to be seated in the main room. Other women (wives, etc.) had been in attendance at the party (and the hostess greeted me warmly), but when it was time to eat, the women all went into a different room. I don't remember much about that aspect of it. They were there, and then all of a sudden they weren't.

And the other most notable thing about this banquet (and I've mentioned it elsewhere on these boards) was that I had no clue what I was eating at any particular time. At one point, a large bowl came 'round containing what appeared to be creamed pearl onions. Since so much of the stuff was quite exotic, I was pleased to see something with which I was familiar. So I had a rather generous helping.

But as soon as I bit into them, I knew they were no onions. My date had been seated at a different table, and to either side of me were Chinese gentlement obviously selected because they did speak some English. "So," I inquired politely of the fellow at my immediate right, "what are these?"

He blushed and giggled.

"I don't know how to say in English," he said, and turned his head and said something in Chinese to the man at his immediate right. Who also blushed and giggled, and repeated it to the man at HIS immediate right. On around the table it went, like some sort of Oriental game of gossip, with everyone now wanting to be in on the joke. The giggling turned into laughter, and the table was abuzz with Chinese back and forth. Finally, one man directly opposite from me, cleared his throat, and made it obvious to all that he knew how to relay the information. He glared at everyone to settle down, which they did. All were now watching him and me with an air of extremely interested anticipation. Then he took a deep breath and, nodding his head in academic fashion, he said, "Madam, they are rooster testicles."

Whereupon any sense of restraint or decorum vanished immediately and the whole table burst into laughter at the look on my face.

The second large banquet was in Taipei. I was 22 and I and my sister, who was 17, were vacationing there with our family. In the hotel there was a jewelry store. Its owner took a liking to me the very first day, and had begun following me around.

On the 3rd day of our stay, he asked me if I would like to attend a large and fancy wedding reception for a friend of his who was prominent in Taipei business circles. I was a little reluctant and said that I wasn't sure my parents would approve. But he was determined, so he asked my father who decided that it would be a "good learning experience" for me. The next thing you know, the fellow said that he had also rounded up a date for my sister, Robin.

So Robin and I get all fancied up, and here comes our dates. They looked like a traveling Asian comedy team - a sort of Oriental Laurel and Hardy. Adding to the effect was the fact that they wore Western-style suits - with vests - and bowler-type hats. My date was a big man, tall and broad. Robin's was about 5'1" - small boned and kind of wild-eyed, with a black mustache. Now Robin is a tall girl, so this fellow was just about titty high on her. And he was Japanese and spoke not one word of English.

First, they gave us gifts - momentos from the jewelry store to mark the occasion - gold and jade pins which they placed upon our bosoms. Then they took us to a formal portrait studio to have our pictures made.

This studio had several backdrops available, and after considerable discussion they selected a very formal "Oriental garden" scene. Robin and I sat on an ornate park bench, while the men stood behind, hats cradled in their arms, in the manner of those official photographs you see of turn-of-the-century couples. Of course, the men were not smiling; but rather, have very serious and important expressions.

Robin and I, on the other hand, look as though we are about to explode with barely-contained mirth.

Which of course we were.

And then off to the wedding banquet.

Their were several things about that banquet that I recall. One was that on the table there were large bottles of various soft drinks. Entertainers came around from table to table, playing music, reading fortunes, juggling something, and caligraphers that gave us large scrolls containing our Chinese names.

And absolutely everything that came out on the large dinner platters included the heads of whatever had given its life for our gustatorial pleasure.

Robin and I were not accustomed to seeing the head of the duck, or fish, or turtle, or whatever, and the glassy eyes staring off into nothingness unnerved us.

So to our immediate right there was a German couple that found our squeamishness amusing. Their response was to remove the heads of everything and place them on one large platter, all staring at us.

By the end of the meal, we had an entire menagerie of dead things with glazed eyes, chickens and ducks and entire schools of shrimp and fish and eels watching us take every bite.

Afterwards we went home.

And my "date" offered my father a considerable sum of money if my father would allow me to marry him. It would work out great, he told my dad, as he already had a job lined up for me teaching English.

Edited June 21, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[eatingwitheddie]

Jaymes

Great vivid memories, great post!

[herbacidal]

been to numerous chinese banquets in philadelphia, probably high double digits.

only one was actually memorable, and that was b/c it was a chef's birthday party. don't remember that much about the food, except that it was all stuff i hadn't seen before. now that was something else. if only i could remember it.

haven't been to any in hong kong. been to a few in china. most of those blend together too. nothing especially notable.

[SobaAddict70]

well the last one I attended was in the mid 1980s, and the occasion was the wedding of one of my aunts. she had married into a family where Cantonese was spoken (keep in mind that our family speaks mostly Fukien dialect, in addition to Mandarin, Tagalog and English); her in-laws don't usually use Mandarin.

I don't remember very many details except that the number of courses was at least twelve, that my aunt had changed dresses three times prior to the banquet -- she had a traditional wedding gown, then a wedding gown for the Chinese ceremony, then a gown at a private reception with her in-laws, and then of course, the wedding reception itself. Red seemed to be a color much in abundance.

Of the meal itself, I was struck at the number of soups that were present. We had from what I recall, a winter melon soup -- the kind that gets served from a massive winter melon, with chicken, ham, mushrooms, shrimp and other goodies inside a carved, hollowed out melon; bird's nest soup (my first time, and I didn't think much of it), and red bean soup for dessert, along with the occasional palate cleanser. Come to think of it, it was the first time I had soup as something other than the role that soup usually plays in a meal ... as a starter or as a main course. The thought was enlightening.

That banquet also contained a number of firsts for me. It was the first time I had eaten jellyfish, served cold and thinly sliced. The texture wasn't what a thirteen year old palate was quite used to. I think by the time the carp and noodles rolled around, that I was too full to eat any more, although somehow I managed to find room for dessert. I forget the progression of courses, except that the appetizers seemed to be endless -- a parade of cold plates, then dumplings, then hot plates, then soups, then main courses -- beef, pork, shellfish, fish, then noodles, and then desserts. Oh, before I forget, there was the beggar's chicken. It was chicken that had been completely encased in clay, cooked in an oven, and then brought to the table, replete with hammer and chisel with which to break the clay shell.

It was at some restaurant in Chinatown that I don't remember the name of. There had to have been at least 100 people at the banquet. Round tables, and lazy Susans were the order of the day.

Soba

edit: added mention of the beggar's chicken.

Edited June 24, 2003 by SobaAddict70 (log)

[herbacidal]

sounds like most of the chinese banquets i've been to.

never had the winter melon in melon before. same for beggar's chicken.

a deprived chinese childhood.

[tissue]

What's a banquet without shark fin!

I love best of banquets is shark fin.

If you know the chef he does special things like carve dragons out of taro for your dishes. It looks so cool!

The trend at high end places in Taiwan is to have each course individually plated when it is served rather than everyone eating from the same plate from the lazy susan.

There are also lots of toasts at banquets. Toasting is key for showing respect. You hardly see anyone sipping alone.

And if it's not a major occasion like a wedding or a birthday, people love to fight over the check. When I was little my parents used to make me pretend to go to the bathroom and then sneak our waiter their credit card, so they can pay.

[Jaymes]

When I was little my parents used to make me pretend to go to the bathroom and then sneak our waiter their credit card, so they can pay.

I love this - GREAT one-upsmanship! I can just imagine the conversation later on at the table: "How did he DO that???"

[herbacidal]

What's a banquet without shark fin!

I love best of banquets is shark fin.

well, there's high end banquets, and more mundane banquets.

but yea sharks fin is tasty.

i remember when we closed down one of our restaurants.

before turning it over to the new operators, we took a whole buncha stuff home.

probably a couple thousand USD of sharks fin.

If you know the chef he does special things like carve dragons out of taro for your dishes. It looks so cool!

The trend at high end places in Taiwan is to have each course individually plated when it is served rather than everyone eating from the same plate from the lazy susan.

Yea, there's less of that in Philly. The banquet givers don't have as much money to dump into the dinner.

Probably hafta have a banquet in HK or Taiwan to check stuff like that out.

And if it's not a major occasion like a wedding or a birthday, people love to fight over the check. When I was little my parents used to make me pretend to go to the bathroom and then sneak our waiter their credit card, so they can pay.

yup definitely a worthy ploy.

at this point, we can bypass stuff like that.

primarily because if we dispute anything with someone else

we're eating with, the staff will side with us.

side benefit from dad knowing management, staff, and the kitchen of

any restaurant we go to in chinatown.

[tissue]

If you know the chef he does special things like carve dragons out of taro for your dishes. It looks so cool!

The trend at high end places in Taiwan is to have each course individually plated when it is served rather than everyone eating from the same plate from the lazy susan.

Yea, there's less of that in Philly. The banquet givers don't have as much money to dump into the dinner.

Probably hafta have a banquet in HK or Taiwan to check stuff like that out.

Lots of places in LA do stuff like this. They range from $100 per table the cheapest to $700 and up depending on what you order. You can eat REALLY WELL for about $300 a table, which is a bargain if you divide by 8-10. All you have to do is talk to the manager ahead of time.

Harbor Seafood in Rosemead probably jacked up the prices for everyone else on the high end HK style seafood level. That place is expensive for dinner! The same way ADNY made other high end French places in NY seem less expensive just by comparison. But I think competition is good. Keeps everyone from being complacent.

I agree with Eddie though, that the chefs usually make the best food when there is some type of special occasion or VIP and there are only 2-3 tables max. Don't know why, that's what I've observed. I've been to wedding banquets in Taiwan where there are, like, 100 tables and the food quality just suffers. But hey, sometimes the size of the banquet is more about face than for the food.

They also treat you better if you book a private room. The really big places are always prepared to section off the restaurant for you if you have more than 3 tables.

[herbacidal]

Lots of places in LA do stuff like this. They range from $100 per table the cheapest to $700 and up depending on what you order. You can eat REALLY WELL for about $300 a table, which is a bargain if you divide by 8-10. All you have to do is talk to the manager ahead of time.

yea, i wouldn't be suprised if this was available in LA and NYC.

there's more of a mass. Phila doesn't have the density necessary.

The banquet givers in LA also have more dinero.

Actually, how are the chefs' skill level in LA as compared to Taiwan and HK?

Yea, $300 a table is the standard, probably across the US. I've had the most of these.

The one I mentioned as being chef's birthday, that was probably on the order of $1000 a table. That was mind blowing, so much so, that i lost most of it that night. Haven't gotten it back yet.

But hey, sometimes the size of the banquet is more about face than for the food.

Actually I would say that's about 90% of the time. At least for weddings, christenings, etc. That's the reason Chinese are willing to blow half, sometimes more than that, of their annual income on a son/daughter's wedding.

They also treat you better if you book a private room. The really big places are always prepared to section off the restaurant for you if you have more than 3 tables.

Really? I'm not so sure about this. All of the times we've gotten a private room, we did get really good service. But again, I suspect this was due primarily to knowing the chefs and staff rather than having the private room. Actually all the times we've had a private room in my experience has been the restaurant giving it to us b/c we are frequent customers/friends.

[tissue]

Skill level of food in LA still below HK and Taiwan. But some come very close. I've been to banquets in Vancouver that coudl rival Taiwan or HK's.... but that was a long time ago.

Recently, presentation and ambiance have been very important in Taiwan, sometimes more important than the food. If you have ever been to the Shanghainese restaurant called Lan Ting at The Regent in Taipei you will know what I mean. Don't get me wrong, the food happens to be good there. But it's one of those places where the decor is so nice you are surprised by the food. Lan Ting has a lot of glass panels with calligraphy carved into it mixed with seats upholstered in cream and modern Chinese dark wood. Very chi-chi. Haven't really found a Chinese restaurant in LA I could call beautiful, I mean, Mr. Chow doesn't really count. And the decor at Yujean Kang's is okay....

You are right, Herbacidal. Giving a banquet, whether large or small, is mostly about face. Until I'm old enough to be giving them myself, for now, I'll just tag along for the food. I think the best things about banquets is the chance for me to have something that is not on the regular menu.

[herbacidal]

Skill level of food in LA still below HK and Taiwan. But some come very close. I've been to banquets in Vancouver that coudl rival Taiwan or HK's.... but that was a long time ago.

yea, i did leave vancouver out.

long time ago, i actually would think the skill level in vancouver now is,

if not better than, at least as good as Taiwan and HK.

Sun Sui Wah I would suspect is leading the Vancouver Chinese food scene, and may be leading it to

areas not seen in Taiwan and HK.

Giving a banquet, whether large or small, is mostly about face. Until I'm old enough to be giving them myself, for now, I'll just tag along for the food. I think the best things about banquets is the chance for me to have something that is not on the regular menu.

Yea, that's the way I feel. Except for the fact that I've been to so many, and I never really see anything new. I usually try to opt out of going.

[cwyc]

Chinese banquets play a very central in showcasing the wealth of the host and the importance of food in Chinese culture. From the number of seats appointed at each table, to the setup of the tables themselves, to the number of courses served, and the significance of the ingredients are all painstakingly planned and considered.

I read with interest some of your experiences attending banquets and it seems underlying most everyone's comments is the importance of "meen" or face in Chinese culture. That is, the host presenting the very best of what one can offer brings upon high esteem of oneself among peers, friends and family. Where rice is so central to an everyday meal, during banquets rice is served last in a twelve course meal. This is because dishes during an everyday meal considered as sides such as soups, meats, vegetables and seafoods are each paraded in course by course highlighting the abundance of the finest ingredients. When the rice IS finally served, guests are to only politely pick at it to show the host they have enjoyed the wealth of dishes that have come beforehand.

Symbols are also an important element in Chinese culture from the number of people at a table to the number of courses served. Ten people per table or twelve people, but never nine or eleven. When noodles are served at a birthday dinner of a respected elder, be sure to slurp the noodles. Do not bite it off as you may sever or shorten the life of the honoree. A whole chicken with both the head and the tail represent the wholeness of life; a whole, steamed fish with both the head and tale intact represents prosperity and fortuitiousness. Don't forget to eat the round gelatinous balls filled with red bean paste for dessert at a wedding banquet for they represent fertility and life of the newly married couple.

Where alcohol is not commonly consumed in everyday meals, during a banquet the host will choose the finest bottles of liquor showcasing his wealth. Throughout the meal, guests will challenge each other to drinking games.

The first course is also usually a cold course of even numbered (usually eight or ten) items such as jelly fish, cold duck, sliced pork, etc. This is followed by a luxurious soup such as bird's nest or shark's fin. More courses follow featuring duck, lobster, pork, fish, abalone. The more exotic and expensive the ingredient, the more prestigious the meal. Finally, after all of these rich items are served, the starches such as rice or noodles is then presented to the guests. It is then the guests politely refuse or nibble away at these more "mundane" everyday dishes.

There is quite a bit of cultural and historical symbolism in the banquet process. Don't be fooled by the "foreign" customs because there is usually an iconic symbol associated with it.

Edited July 31, 2003 by cwyc (log)

[tissue]

Where alcohol is not commonly consumed in everyday meals, during a banquet the host will choose the finest bottles of liquor showcasing his wealth.  Throughout the meal, guests will challenge each other to drinking games.

Yeah they drink a lot of XO, Chivas, or Johnny...

[Jon Tseng]

I'm often struck by the similarity between the service in chinese banquets and french tasting menus ie 9-10 small courses served for the entire table. (consequently) small portion size, luxury ingredients.

once again the french finally cottoning on... a couple of hundred years later

J

[Gary Soup]

Where alcohol is not commonly consumed in everyday meals, during a banquet the host will choose the finest bottles of liquor showcasing his wealth.  Throughout the meal, guests will challenge each other to drinking games.

Yeah they drink a lot of XO, Chivas, or Johnny...

Beer is quite commonly drunk nowadays at restaurant meals in Shanghai (at least at MY table).

[Navan]

I've been reading about manners, banquets and the like. I am going to

Chinese wedding banquet on Saturday for cousin's son. I am a bit

worried as to how to handle all the courses and that around the table,

don't want to seem rude. I am vegetarian for some 30 years and also

allergic to seafood but know just about everything will have meat or

seafood esp bc in a seafood restaurant. Usually when we go out I just get sep

veg dish but doubt if this will happen here, will seem stupid, also not good

to just eat veg and rice then sit around while everyone else goes

through 10 courses or whatever then leaves the rich.

Suggestions? Thanks!

Navan

[trillium]

The banquet is likely to be mostly meat and seafood, even the vegetables will probably not be vegetarian, this is a feast, so they'll probably be served in combo with some meat or seafood. There are periods of time (from a year to a lifetime) when Chinese Buddhists practise vegetarianism, so this isn't an unheard of concept. If it were me, I'd have a quiet word with the manager before the banquet starts and arrange to have a few vegetarian options cooked for you at your expense. The only thing that worries me is that you say you're allergic to seafood. Will you die if you come in contact with seafood? If so, then I would be very wary about eating anything there!

good luck,

trillium

[titus wong]

Yikes. You're in a tight spot and no mistake. I think, given your particular situation, a word beforehand with the groom/restauranteur as trillium suggests would be warranted, otherwise you might have some well-intentioned guests proffering you food all evening. It's customary for the host, or even your immediate neighbor, to serve you before themselves. A chinese wedding banquet is no place for a seafood-allergic vegetarian. While I'm sure you're earnest in paying your respects to your (second?) nephew, you might wish to directly communicate your congratulations to the newlyweds at the ceremony, rather than politely declining food all night long.

[herbacidal]

lemme add to the chorus:

you should speak up.

speak with the bride/groom/wedding person you know the best.

actually, scratch the bride part. speak with the brother/sister of the bride/groom. hopefully they have one.

[Hest88]

Yes, talk to someone in the wedding party who has influence over the banquet. They may end up paying extra to accomodate you with special dishes, but you've also left them with little time to do so. Call someone immediately and see what can be done. I suspect that otherwise there won't be one dish you could eat. Good luck.

[browniebaker]

If I were you, I would not say anything to anyone. I've been a bride, and I have been a guest many times at these Chinese wedding banquets, sometimes when I have been on a low-sodium or other diet, and having grown up in the Chinese culture, I think the balance comes down to not drawing attention to oneself by mentioning special dietary requirements; it just is not done.

I have sat at these banquets and eaten plain rice or played with my food on my plate. Pick apart your crab or shrimp and move it around. Hide food under shells and leaves. Your plate is cleared at the end of each course, and no one is really going to notice or care that you are actually consuming very little if anything. I would not worry about wasting the food because, over all, you are doing the right thing by not causing anyone extra trouble.

I realize my opinion is not going to be popular among those who put a primacy on the food or on individualism, but I do think you ought to consider whether you want to be forever remembered as the one wedding guest who requested a special meal. (My mother and father still recall and talk about which wedding requested to sit a this particular table, which one did not wear a tie, which one asked to bring an uninvited guest, etc.)

I would simply eat a good dinner before or after the wedding. In short, someone else's wedding is not about me, and it is also not about the food.

[Navan]

Browniebaker, you have my answer, thank you! Your understanding and perspective are as beautiful as these two people who are getting married. I will relax and just celebrate!

Navan

[Navan]

It was not the slightest problem. The whole thing was too much fun, too much celebration! Some of my extended family was at my table and so made it

easier, joking about not taking much because it was a twelve course banquet,

but most dishes were fancied up with salad garnishes, some almost too beautiful to eat (but I did.) They also had a plain egg noodle dish, I ate that, good and I sure filled up on the sweet red bean soup course and the sweets!

I should say and agree again with Browniebaker, it would have just been horrible to have made a fuss, a bother either ahead of time or while there, it just would not have been good. A large banquet is service by course, with lots of fun and games in between, and thank you's and such, it has nothing to do with yourself, only with your genuine joy and good wishes for the new couple and making your time there joyful in harmony and fellowship with everything.