Chinese cookbooks

[SuzySushi]

Another old one is Chinese Regional Cooking by Deh-Ta Hsiung (1979).

[jo-mel]

I've been looking for some good cookbooks with authentic regional Chinese recipes.

I picked up "Land of Plenty" by Fuschia Dunlop some time ago for Szechuan recipes and it's been pretty good. But it's been tough finding cookbooks of other regional cuisines, especially the more obscure ones.

I'm particularly interested in Shanghai, Hunan, and Chiuchow recipes.

Any suggestions as to where to look?

Also, Wikipedia lists the following as Chinese cuisines:

    * Chinese Buddhist cuisine

    * Northwestern Chinese cuisine

    * Jiang-Huai cuisine

    * Yunnan cuisine

    * Northeastern Chinese cuisine

    * Cantonese cuisine

    * Chiuchow cuisine

    * Hakka cuisine

    * Hunan cuisine

    * Chinese Islamic cuisine

    * Mandarin cuisine should be Northern Chinese cuisine

    * Shanghai cuisine

    * Szechuan cuisine

    * Taiwanese cuisine

    * Fujian cuisine

    * Hainan cuisine

    * Nanyang Chinese cuisine

    * Historical Chinese cuisine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine

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I have the Wei-Chuan series, Beijing, Shanghai and Sichuan. There are also Cantonese and Taiwanese cookbooks in their series. I have found these in Chinese grocery stores.

Eileen Yin-Fei Lo has a good one limited to Cantonese.

Also I have other Szechuan cookbooks by Delfs; and Mrs. Chiang. For Hunan I have Henry Chung's Hunan Style Chinese Cookbook.

The Ma Family covers Swatow food.

Pei Mei, Vol1 has Northern, Southern, Eastern and Western recipes. ------and Vol3 inclused recipes from the usual regions as well as Fukien, Taiwan and 'King che'.

Other general regional books include Lo, Gin/Castle, Florence Lin and Leeming/ Huang and Esther Chen. But these books are all from the 70s.

[Pan]

I don't know much about Swatow food (is that one of the places that has a new name?), and I've never heard of "King che." Could you please list some of the specialties of those regions, either in this thread or another one?

[jacko]

Land of Plenty

Authentic Sichuan recipes personally gathered in the Chinese province of Sichuan.

by Fuchsia Dunlop

[jo-mel]

I don't know much about Swatow food (is that one of the places that has a new name?), and I've never heard of "King che." Could you please list some of the specialties of those regions, either in this thread or another one?

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Pan --- Swatow is one of the Guangdong regional foods. I'm not sure which transliteration 'Swatow' is, but it is the same as ChouChow /ChiuChow regional cooking. One of those dishes is a simple but wonderful dish of chicken served with those deep-fried spinach leaves from an earlier post. Remember that one?

The King Che is mispelled in parts of that book. Another listing in the book has it as Kiang-Che or in the modern spelling - Jiang-Zhe. It is a type of Shanghainese cooking from cities in in Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces.

The dishes listed are: Deep fried fish rolls / Spiced jellied pork / Shredded jellyfish salad / Sweet candied walnuts / Sauteed black mushrooms with soy sauce / Stir-fried river shrimp / Deep-fried sweet baby eel / Wined chicken wings / Braised shark fin with crab meat / Sauteed tri-colored sliced prawns / Braised turtle with chestnuts / Deep-fried spiced pigeon / Stir-fried crab with bean sauce / Stewed whole chicken in casserole / Special steamed dumplings / Baked cake Chinese style / Sweet pinecream soup.

[Pan]

Thanks, yeah, all that makes sense to me. I've been in Jiangsu and Zhejiang, and I haven't visited the Chao Zhou/Chiuchow/Teochew area but have gone to restaurants serving food in that style (especially but not restricted to noodle soups and pig offal).

[anzu]

There's more information about where Swatow/Shantou is located here. From the location, the cooking perhaps contains elements of both Cantonese and Chaozhou styles (?)

Jo-mel, can you tell us more about the sweet pinecream soup in that book?

And would you recommend the Shanghai book in general? I've been trying to recreate some of the dishes I ate years back in Shanghai, and am never fully happy with the results, so I'm hoping the book would take me further in the right direction.

[jo-mel]

There's more information about where Swatow/Shantou is located here. From the location, the cooking perhaps contains elements of both Cantonese and Chaozhou styles (?)

Jo-mel, can you tell us more about the sweet pinecream soup in that book?

And would you recommend the Shanghai book in general? I've been trying to recreate some of the dishes I ate years back in Shanghai, and am never fully happy with the results, so I'm hoping the book would take me further in the right direction.

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Anzu -- sorry to have taken so much time getting back to you.

I really like the Shanghai book. They have dishes that I've had in my fav Shanghai restaurant, here in NJ. Also, another favorite recipe -- Wu Xi Ribs.

The only thing I wish it had were more noodle recipes. But if you see this book in Chinese stores, you can skim thru it. Full of pictures, stewed dishes, pork belly recipes, Shihzitou meatballs, braised pork shoulder with crystal sugar sauce, fish head casserole, crab in bean paste sauce, seaweed flavored yellow fish rolls, drunken chicken, and generally really hearty Shanghai food.

About the Sweet Pinenut Cream Soup, let me see if I can get the recipe to you in a format that will not bollix copyright laws.

-----You need some black or white sesame seeds -- 1/2 a cup. (Wash and dry them --- that's what the recipe says) Then they go into a dry frying pan and stirred forabout a minute. Let them cool.

-----Then you need to deep fry the pine seeds in some warm oil until they are golden. Scoop out and let them drain on paper towels.

-----Put 2 cups of water into a blender and add the sesame seeds. Blend until very fine, then pour into a saucepan.

-----Add 4 cups of hot water to the sauce pan with the water and sesame seed mix, and add 6 Tbsp. of sugar. Bring to a boil.

-----The recipe then says to add 5 Tbst of cornstarch and let the soup thicken while stirring. , but I assume it means to mix the cornstarch with some cold water, first.

-----Add 3 Tbsp. of milk and take off the flame.

-----Pour into a large soup bowl and sprinkle with the pinenuts.

That's it. The picture of it, in the book, looks dark, so I assume it is made with black sesame seeds.

Does that help?

[hzrt8w]

I really like this cookbook from Martin Yan:

Martin Yan's Chinatown Cooking : 200 Traditional Recipes from 11 Chinatowns

I found quite a few classical Chinese recipes of dishes served in many Chinese restaurants and very close to those made in Hong Kong, China.

Edited December 7, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[Mallet]

I've enjoyed "Chinese Home-Style Cooking", which I bought in Shanghai. I think it might be a government sponsored book but I'm not sure

Here's a link: Shanghai online bookstore for foreigners

Also, many of the recipes are available here. Does anyone else have this book?

[saluki]

This is not actually a cookbook, but in looking through my shelf this weekend, I was reminded of a fabulous book Jo-Mel gave to me that is now out of print: The Scrutable Feast by Dorothy Farris Lapidus.  This book, from 1977, provides information, translations and transliterations to permit the non-Chinese speaker to order authentic meals in Chinese restaurants.  No photographs, but a lot of interesting information.  I have stolen the back cover art for my avatar and the phrase from the back cover for my signature.  Love this book; wish I could find it to give to others.

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Just wanted to let you know that this book is available second hand from Half.com

Ebay also has a copy.

Susie L

[ludja]

A friend has loaned me her copy of Grace Young's "Breath of a Wok" which came out last year. It looks pretty good but I wonder if any one has comments from experience in using it over the last year?

Thanks in advance!

[hzrt8w]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but worths re-iterating in any case:

The entire "Wei Chuan" series is great! Each book focuses on a different style or subject, written by different authors. All are illustrated with color, narrated with English/Chinese side by side. (I just wish they would provide some photos on the intermediate steps though). These recipes are produced and reviewed by Chinese. They are closer to the classical Chinese recipes than many cookbooks that I have seen in the USA. Not some "half way there", Ameriasian style recipes. No "flank steak slices on spaghetti dabbed with oyster sauce straight from the bottle" here. If one is serious about learning to cook Chinese food the Chinese way, this series is a great start.

This is one of the books from the series:

Chinese Cuisine: Szechwan Style

With US$5.00 for a used copy, I think it's a great deal.

Edited December 9, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[muichoi]

Couldn't agree more-particularly the very first volume-Chinese Cuisine. Up there with Pei-Mei volume one. Why are the best books from Taiwan?

[muichoi]

A friend has loaned me her copy of Grace Young's "Breath of a Wok" which came out last year.  It looks pretty good but I wonder if any one has comments from experience in using it over the last year?

Thanks in advance!

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Very poor, emasculated recipes, in my experience. The author is no kind of cook.

[trillium]

A friend has loaned me her copy of Grace Young's "Breath of a Wok" which came out last year.  It looks pretty good but I wonder if any one has comments from experience in using it over the last year?

Thanks in advance!

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Very poor, emasculated recipes, in my experience. The author is no kind of cook.

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Hang on a minute. I haven't looked at Grace Young's latest book, but her last one is fantastic. Many of the recipes in there are classic Cantonese home cooking and not the stuff you usually find in "Chinese" cookbooks. I know a couple of friends who bought the book and love it because it teaches them how to make the dishes their PoPo's never did before they passed away. No book is ever perfect, but I think you're way out of line to claim she's "no kind of cook" and I have no idea what an emasculated recipe means so I can't really address that part.

There are several different layers of classic Chinese cuisine, from home cooked to banquet, and then there is the newer HK style stuff. Plus you have huge regional variations on a theme. I would think there is room in the universe for all of these approaches.

regards,

trillium

[muichoi]

I agree, of course there are several different layers to chinese cuisine. These recipes simply don't give a good result on any level-they are simplistic and generalised. Sorry to be so harsh, but I bought these books on recommendations from this forum, and was severely disappointed-what I mean by 'no kind of cook' is that she's clearly acquired her knowledge for the purpose of writing the books rather than wishing to share the cookery knowledge of a lifetime.

[trillium]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but worths re-iterating in any case:

The entire "Wei Chuan" series is great!  Each book focuses on a different style or subject, written by different authors.  All are illustrated with color, narrated with English/Chinese side by side.  (I just wish they would provide some photos on the intermediate steps though).  These recipes are produced and reviewed by Chinese.  They are as classical as can be.  Not some "half way there", Ameriasian style recipes.  No "flank steak slices on spaghetti dabbed with oyster sauce straight from the bottle" here.  If one is serious about learning to cook Chinese food the Chinese way, this series is a great start.

This is one of the books from the series:

Chinese Cuisine: Szechwan Style

With US$5.00 for a used copy, I think it's a great deal.

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I understand where you're coming from on the half way there stuff, but I gotta say the ethnic Chinese(Hokkien) dude in our house doesn't like the "Wei Chuan" series because he says the food taste is "too Taiwanese", at least the ones we've checked out and cooked from. There really are plenty of regional differences in how different groups cook a similar dish. In the reaction against silly dishes and cookbooks being slapped with a "Chinese" label, I would hate for the baby to get thrown out with the bathwater. I would argue that the Wei Chuan has a serious overseas Chinese style bias (I'm thinking HK or Taiwan), I have friends from the mainland who aren't that crazy about all of them either. I'm not saying they're bad books, but they do have their own biases, which someone with the same biases may not realize. My Sichuan friends like Ms. Dunlop's book better, although a friend from Lanzhou says the same book is full of "typical Sichuanese inaccuracies/exaggerations". I think my point is that everyone might agree that flank steak on spaghetti with oyster sauce is not Chinese, but I don't think you get get everyone to agree on what is "classic as can be". Food seems to bring out the most opinionated streak in people!

regards,

trillium

[trillium]

I agree, of course there are several different layers to chinese cuisine. These recipes simply don't give a good result on any level-they are simplistic and generalised. Sorry to be so harsh, but I bought these books on recommendations from this forum, and was severely disappointed-what I mean by 'no kind of cook' is that she's clearly acquired her knowledge for the purpose of writing the books rather than wishing to share the cookery knowledge of a lifetime.

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I understand what you mean now and agree that she did seem to go out and collect this stuff from her father, grandmother and cousins rather then acquire it over a lifetime. Her first book really focuses, for the most part, on simple Cantonese home cooking as it's done in her family, and those are the recipes I think make the book worthwhile. If you're not interested in that style of cooking, then I can imagine the book would be very disappointing.

regards,

trillium

[hzrt8w]

[...]but I don't think you get get everyone to agree on what is "classic as can be".  Food seems to bring out the most opinionated streak in people!

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trillium: You are right. I agree with you that the Wei Chuan does have a bit bias from Taiwanese. I have changed my opinion statement to "They are closer to the classical Chinese recipes than many cookbooks that I have seen in the USA. " in the original post.

[hzrt8w]

Re: Grace Young's "Breath of a Wok"

I have read a portion of her book. I like the beginning section of this book, which depicted how she researched on how to achieve the illusive "wok hey" as often described by her father. Through that she learned how to shop for a wok and how to season a wok, etc.. That part was useful.

The recipes in that book, on the other hand, did not arouse my interest. If I am not mistaken, they are not Young's own recipes but from those people featured in the book, those whom she visited or interviewed. For example, one of the recipes was "Mango Chicken". These recipes did not seem to be popular home-made ones (at least in Hong Kong). If they were served in common Chinese restaurants (in Hong Kong or California) then I have not noticed them.

[sheetz]

I agree with you that the Wei Chuan does have a bit bias from Taiwanese. 

I'm actually not all that familiar with Taiwanese style cooking. Could you describe what some of the Taiwanese 'biases' are?

[Shinboners]

This thread has been an interesting read. I was looking through my collection of cookbooks, and there is a gap in that there is no definitive book for Chinese cooking - or at least no equivalent to something like the Larousse Gastronomique (French), Essentials of Italian Cooking and Silver Spoon (Italian), Cooks Companion (General), Thai Food (Thai), etc. It seems that "Modern Art of Chinese Cooking" is the closest thing to a Chinese equivalent to those books.

From those who can get access to Australian books, Kylie Kwong's "Recipes and stories" is a very good book, and Neil Perry's "Simply Asian" has some good Chinese recipes in it.

[muichoi]

I think Kylie Kwong gives her own recipes for her own food, rather than for classic preparations. As such I am not very interested.

[trillium]

Re: Grace Young's "Breath of a Wok"

I have read a portion of her book.  I like the beginning section of this book, which depicted how she researched on how to achieve the illusive "wok hey" as often described by her father.  Through that she learned how to shop for a wok and how to season a wok, etc..  That part was useful.

The recipes in that book, on the other hand, did not arouse my interest.  If I am not mistaken, they are not Young's own recipes but from those people featured in the book, those whom she visited or interviewed.  For example, one of the recipes was "Mango Chicken".  These recipes did not seem to be popular home-made ones (at least in Hong Kong).  If they were served in common Chinese restaurants (in Hong Kong or California) then I have not noticed them.

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Like I said, I'm refering to "Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen", not "Breath of a Wok". Just to be clear. They are a collection of her family's home-style recipes, including a whole section on tonic/soups and helpful hints on finding things in herb shops. It has a lot of what I call "PoPo cooking". Stuff I ate from grannies' cooking or friends who learned it from their grannies.

As for mango, it's funny you mention that. One of my favorite "classic" cookbook authors is Yan Kit So, (who btw, had a doctorate in 19th Century Chinese border issues). Her most accessible book, The Classic Chinese Cookbook, has a recipe for mango beef something or other. I always thought it must be some fancy HK thing (her biases are HK and Guangdong based). I wonder where the mango is coming from?

If you get a chance, her " Classic Food Of China" is worth a look. She lists in the bibliography several Chinese language cookery books she used as references, some of the quite old. I was very sad when she passed away.

Yan Kit So Guardian obit

regards,

trillium

Edited December 15, 2005 by trillium (log)