London to Ban Smoking in Resaurants

[mogsob]

Clarity was never the ES's strong suit, but it appears from the article that 75% of Londoners favour banning or severely restricting smoking in restaurants.

As Ireland goes smoke-free (news to me), can London be far behind?

ES Article

[Hallie]

Although my response might meet with some controversy from those who enjoy a good puff the old cancer stick, I couldn't be more in favour of this idea.

The other night as we dined at our local North African restaurant we were place precariously between two smokers. As soon as the person on the right of us finished her fag, someone to the left of us lit up. At one point the smoke, which constantly wafted over our meals, actually gathered like a fog within the large bowl containing our mezze. A couple of angry glares made the accused angle her cigarette in another direction, which only granted temporary relief.

I often become infuriated by the selfishness of smokers in restaurants. If you want to inhale smoke and dilute the taste of your food then go ahead, but please don't make me do the same.

[mogsob]

My thoughts on smoking in restaurants (and smokers in general) are well-known from the thread on the NYC board. Personally, I'd love to see smoking banned in all places outside of the home, unless the smoker in question wears an airtight helmet that prevents smoke from escaping.

[Simon Majumdar]

I couldn't agree more

Hateful habit

S

[Charlene Leonard]

unless the smoker in question wears an airtight helmet that prevents smoke from escaping.

or doesn't mind if I sneeze all over their food.

[StephenT]

I think it's a great idea, but it does mean that my wife will be even less likely to want to go to restaurants with me.

[Hub-UK2]

I started smoking at the age of 13 and only gave up three years ago (now I am old).

Other people having a right to smoke is something I have always felt strongly about but I also feel that non-smokers have the right not to be smoked upon.

Whether smoking should be allowed in restaurants will surely be decided by the diners in the long run. When I first went to a non-smoking restaurant (unknown to me) I was quite shocked to find I couldn't smoke between courses but it didn't stop me going again.

I am not one of the fanatical converts from smoking. If I didn't like a restaurant because of the smoking I would probably convey that information when I left and would find somewhere else to eat. It's a pity you can't have a smoking and non-smoking room in restaurants but that is just not practicle.

If I had to come down on one side of the fence it would be that all eating establishements should be non-smoking. Cinemas have banned smoking completely and it does not seem to have stopped people going.

[mogsob]

Cinemas have banned smoking completely and it does not seem to have stopped people going.

A very good example. Indeed, the NYC restaurant boom coincided with the first of the anti-smoking regulations. The myth that smokers will refuse to socialize in a smoke-free world is just that, pure myth. What is clear at least is that this non-smoker will be able to get his non-smoking wife out more often in London if the restaurants were all smoke-free.

[Tonyfinch]

.  The myth that smokers will refuse to socialize in a smoke-free world is just that, pure myth.

The myth that smokers need to smoke at all is pure myth. Why Alan Carr's "The Easy Way to Stop Smoking" is not available on the national health is beyond me. It is a book which would do more to alleviate health problems than any other book ever written.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

Do you think this includes Cuban cigars? I will not go to a restaurant if there isn't an area where I can enjoy a huge post-meal Armagnac and a Cohiba Lancero (lunch) or Esplendido (dinner).

[Basildog]

Do you think this includes Cuban cigars? I will not go to a restaurant if there isn't an area where I can enjoy a huge post-meal Armagnac and a Cohiba Lancero (lunch) or Esplendido (dinner).

We have a nice street for smoking Good enough for me

[sarah w]

As a smoker i feel that some reforms are needed, i wouldnt necessarily agree with a blanket ban but in many restuarants the seperation between smoking and non

is ridiculous.

On every occasion i/we try a prevent my smoking from interfering with those non smokers seated nearby but as we know with many places especially london the tables

are so close together that there is no escape for the non smokers.

At Petrus the couplenext to us began glaring after we lit one cigarette, we offered to refrain from smoking

and instead visit the bar. The guy reluctantly said thanks then still complained and asked to be moved, the table he wanted was unavailiable and ironically would have been next to a table of smokers.

He was obviously a one off case as he still complained and neither him or his date seemed utter a word through the meal...The point i am trying to make is that we went out of way when we didnt have to..

I quite like the style of some resturants where by the dining room is smoke free but guests can use the lounge. It can be embarassing leaving for a cigarette mid way through a meal but it it improves other guests dining experience then i have no qualms.

I also liked the way at Auberge De l'ill in France you could smoke in the dining room after 10ish when everyone was at the end of the meal.Many restaurants are now switching to the

smoke free dining room, Manoir, Mju, etc is that not halfway solution.?

Edited May 2, 2003 by sarah w (log)

[mogsob]

Do you think this includes Cuban cigars? I will not go to a restaurant if there isn't an area where I can enjoy a huge post-meal Armagnac and a Cohiba Lancero (lunch) or Esplendido (dinner).

Likely at the table, but I would expect better restaurants to have separate bar areas as NY restaurants did in the 1990s to accomodate an after-dinner cigar.

Of course, as an American citizen, I have never smoked a Cuban cigar as it is a felony to do so, whether you are on US soil or not.

[jamesmarsh]

Personally, I'd love to see smoking banned in all places outside of the home, unless the smoker in question wears an airtight helmet that prevents smoke from escaping.

Whatever happened to tolerance?

[rjs1]

I'm a 99% non-smoker who does enjoy a very occasional cigar at the end of a meal. However, I can't see that cigars (or pipes) can ever be smoked in a dining room without interfering with the enjoyment of other diners. Cigarettes are almost as bad but their smoke can at least be contained by state-of-the-art air conditioning. What seems fair to me is that cigarette smokers can only smoke in a separate dining room or if a single dining room is big enough and well air-conditioned enough for their smoke not to affect any one who doesn't want to be affected by it (including staff as well as customers).

What I find ridiculous is the number of restaurants in London who tell you when you ask for a non-smoking table that the whole restaurant is "smoking". As the industry has failed to self-regulate on this, the GLA will probably impose non-smoking rules in a much more heavy-handed way than could have been achieved by self-regulation.

[jamesmarsh]

What I find ridiculous is the number of restaurants in London who tell you when you ask for a non-smoking table that the whole restaurant is "smoking". 

As a smoker, this is quite annoying for me too. I'd far rather sit at a table where I know people around me will not mind if I have a cigarette or two. Places like Cigala are the worst offenders where the tables are so close together its almost impossible to enjoy a smoke for fear of upsetting people...

[mogsob]

Personally, I'd love to see smoking banned in all places outside of the home, unless the smoker in question wears an airtight helmet that prevents smoke from escaping.

Whatever happened to tolerance?

It is not an issue of tolerance, as smokers are among the most inconsiderate people on earth. For example, I cannot think of a single smoker who exhales in a manner that will result in smoke being returned into their face. Instead, they turn their heads to exhale, thereby blowing smoke in the direction of (or, in many cases, directly at) third parties. Moreover, smokers frequently hold their cigarettes in a manner that results in smoke being blown behind them. Again, this practice (especially in restaurants) results in smoke being directly blown at a third party. Furthermore, smoking is an all or nothing proposition. If one person is smoking in a room, the whole room is a smoking room. Conversely, even if a majority of people in a restaurant don't want smoke getting in the way of their enjoyment, they are essentially held captive to the one inconsiderate asshole lighting up across the way.

So if you are looking for tolerance, bub, perhaps you should look to smokers to be more tolerant of their non-smoking neighbors.

[Smoking Bear]

.

Whatever happened to tolerance?

[Mrs Woman]

Even as a smoker, I can understand non-smoker's arguments for a smoke-free restaurant. I really don't mind if restaurants do become non-smoking - I can wait a few hours before I have one - but what worries me is if the same ban hits the pubs. Yes food is generally available in most pubs but they are mostly drinking establishments where people go to relax and/or get a bit squiffy and enjoying a few ciggies is part and parcel of that for quite a lot of people. This is maybe where a ban will meet most opposition.

[sarah w]

Didn't even think about the ban in pubs !!!

[jamesmarsh]

So if you are looking for tolerance, bub, perhaps you should look to smokers to be more tolerant of their non-smoking neighbors.

Mogsob, if you re-read my message you'll see i was referring to your comment on banning smoking in all places aoutside the home, not just restaurants.

Does the idea of someone smoking in the street really upset you that much? i don't particularly like walking past people eating Big Macs in the street but i wouldn't want to ban them from doing so.

[Scott]

It is not an issue of tolerance, as smokers are among the most inconsiderate people on earth.  For example, I cannot think of a single smoker who exhales in a manner that will result in smoke being returned into their face.  Instead, they turn their heads to exhale, thereby blowing smoke in the direction of (or, in many cases, directly at) third parties.  Moreover, smokers frequently hold their cigarettes in a manner that results in smoke being blown behind them.  Again, this practice (especially in restaurants) results in smoke being directly blown at a third party. 

100% agree. Smoking is an invasive habit, that is not confined to the individual concerned.

Ban it everywhere, including the home!!

where's George Orwell when you need him?

[Loula]

I do smoke and agree that smoking is a filthy habit.

I would like to think that I am as considerate as possible when in public. If I go to a restuarant that does not have a smoking section, I mention to the waitress that I would like to smoke and that I would like to be seated away from those who are not smoking, so as to cause as little offence as possible. I recently asked to be moved from a 'good' table where there were non-smokers on either side, to an isolated 'poor' table as I would not have wished to inflict my smoke directly upon those sitting by me.

Perhaps having legally enforced smoking and non-smoking sections with a proven effective air con system would be the answer, with smaller restaurants unable to do this being non-smoking? But what if the restauranteur wants to allow smoking? Should the government forbid him to allow this on his own private premises?

I don't drive. I don't like being blasted by harmful car fumes every time I leave my house, especially as so many journeys are unnecessarily made by car, but I am not asking for unnecessary driving to be banned.

[Scott]

i don't particularly like walking past people eating Big Macs in the street but i wouldn't want to ban them from doing so.

James,

this is not an issue of what people like! it's a common, yet fundamental misunderstanding. There is nothing about someone eating a big mac whilst walking down the street that impacts or effects you. yes you don't like it, but it doesn't physically impose itself on you. It does not impart health risks upon you.

Smoking is all of these things.

[jamesmarsh]

Scott, please explain to me the "health risks" to you of being outdoors in the same street as someone smoking. There are none. And you won't find a single scrap of evidence to tell you otherwise.

The subject of this thread was smoking in restuarants and I can understand why a non-smoker may be upset if they are seated next to a table of smokers throughout their meal. Thats why i favour proper segregation, or only allowing smoking at the bar.

However, arguments such as yours and mogsob's smack of health fascism and an intolerance towards those people who choose to live their life in a different way to you.