Best coffee in town

[Culatello]

Onionbreath:

I totaly forgot about Mali ,maybe because I was mistreated

the last time I went,I'll give it another try

I have nothing against the people at cafe Italia,I just think

there coffee isn't all the hype especially the CAPPUCCINO,

there has to be other places in this city we haven't mentioned.How about the place next to Fairmount bagels

that looks like it's opening soon.

About the Culatello you have to go back to Parma ,sorry but hopfully we'll get some in the future

if Health Canada approves thats on another threat,

[Culatello]

You guy's got to try the espresso at Latini ,Moreno out did him self again as I mentioned earlier he was the first to bring Illy to Montreal and now he's brought G.Frasi try it out the next time your in the mood for Italien.

[RwR]

Hi All, I really enjoy the coffee at Cafe Creme on Victoria. I believe they use Mokita beans...one of the best I've had at this early stage in life...YUM

[identifiler]

Oninonbreath, I have always been impressed with the coffee at Lemeac (it is true it is expensive). They use Illy, this must have been a one time miss from the coffee/bar. I wouldn't think this is normal for Lemeac unless it has changed the coffee set up or that a tune up is required on the machine...

[whitefish]

Best Espresso goes to Café Chivas, just outside Jean Talon market. They spent something like 6 years perfecting the blend. You'll want two in a row guaranteed.

Best café au lait Café Olympico (Open da Night) in Mile End. Cheap, very fast and damn good. Not a caffeine freak but the "double" tastes even better and it's still just $2.75. Screw you Starbucks!

[SteveW]

And in the West end

Opening soon 48 on Monkland

Have this place opened on Monkland yet? What's the exact address?

-Steve

[Culatello]

Steve W 48 on monkland is not a cafe I just want to make it clear.It's a restaurant

They should be opening very soon , there was delays do to renovations,I can't give the exact address but I know it's across the street from Tribeca and it was the old Digestivo

If anyone is looking for a job in the kitchen I know he's hiring the # is 361-6732

this a pager # leave a message or # and he'll call back

[cook-em-all]

I saw them working today, I was wondering what it was.

What is it?

I hope it's good. Monkland is a busy street, not a lot of parking

[Culatello]

From what I understand it is going to be, homestyle Italian bistro with quality ingredients ,since he is an Importer of Italian products. ( don't quote me )

let's put this way It's going to be good italian food that you don't normally eat in restaurants,good wines.This is the place real Italians go to eat.

You might know him from your days at med & sofia he also use to supply restaurants with mushrooms He's served some big houses in montreal.

Ask your freind Joe M. from Bronte

I'll get back to you with more details.

[cook-em-all]

I hope this doesn't mean Joey is going to be hanging around my hood.

[Culatello]

I don't know about that,but ask Joe about Louie's food.

[iroc326]

I read all the posts on this thread about coffee....I just can not believe that people like the espresso at Toi, Moi, Cafe !!!!!! It must be the worst coffee in the Mile End. I went there with my bro and his wife on the terrasse expecting a compact and concentrated short espresso. What we got was a cappuccino cup filled with watery, oxydized, cheap coffee. We took one sip, and left....The waiter did gently propose another round : we declined because it was obvious they don't know anything about espresso coffee.....They seem to be into cafe equitable (take care!!!!!)

We walked a bit more, and enjoyed a real espresso at Cafe Olympico....

People, go to the 4-5 best espresso cafes in the city and you'll know what I'm talking about.

My 2 cents.

[carswell]

I read all the posts on this thread about coffee....I just can not believe that people like the espresso at Toi, Moi, Cafe !!!!!! It must be the worst coffee in the Mile End. I went there with my bro and his wife on the terrasse expecting a compact and concentrated short espresso. What we got was a cappuccino cup filled with watery, oxydized, cheap coffee. We took one sip, and left....

If you read all the posts then you know that most of the thumbs-up for Toi, Moi et Café referred to their milk-based drinks, not their espressos. And what about your not only dismissing but publicly dissing an establishment on the basis of a single experience?

A factor no one has mentioned in this thread is the barista, as important a link in the espresso chain as the beans, roast, grind, water and machine. I've had lousy shots from great espresso bars and, once or twice before they replaced their manual machines with automatics, acceptable shots from Starbucks. Much depends on who's behind the machine. And, even then, professional baristas are the first to admit they don't nail every shot. The best sometimes dump an attempt because the grind wasn't right or the water was too hot or the planets weren't in alignment.

They seem to be into cafe equitable (take care!!!!!)

The leap from fair trade to "take care!!!!!" is not obvious to those of us who are happy drinking dishwater. We are so easily duped. Please enlighten us.

- carswell, who wonders what it is about this thread that brings out the "youse guys got no taste" side of certain locals...

Edited January 27, 2004 by carswell (log)

[iroc326]

Carswell, let's imagine this scenario : you head for the first to a new restaurant. This restaurant is supposed to be the next big thing....You leave the restaurant and here's your general impression : "I just got clipped for 300$ for common food, average service and a hefty marked up wine list". What will you say to your friends about your experience : "Friends, I got clipped last night...but I'll give the restaurant a 2nd chance. Wanna join me ?" !!!!!!

I will however give this coffee place a second chance, eventhough I have my doubts.

Second : how can a latte-cafè be very good if the espresso is lousy ?

Third : I do not believe that only the barista was the culprit for one of the most awful coffee I've ever had. I base myself on my personnal experience with my home machine, and with a heavy experience in espresso tasting (including Italy).

[carswell]

Carswell, let's imagine this scenario : you head for the first to a new restaurant. This restaurant is supposed to be the next big thing....You leave the restaurant and here's your general impression : "I just got clipped for 300$ for common food, average service and a hefty marked up wine list". What will you say to your friends about your experience : "Friends, I got clipped last night...but I'll give the restaurant a 2nd chance. Wanna join me ?" !!!!!!

Well, there's an order or two of magnitude between a $300 meal and a $3 latte. Also, there's a difference between deciding never to go back to a place and savaging it in public. That's why conscientious critics – including, I believe, our own Ms. C – make a point of visiting a restaurant more than once before publishing a review, especially a negative review.

I will however give this coffee place a second chance, eventhough I have my doubts.

Whatever. I'm not encouraging you to do so or even defending TM&C, where I haven't been for months except to buy beans. And I don't believe anyone here has claimed their drinks are world-class. My earlier take was simply that for café au lait they're among the best of the Aux Deux Marie/Brûlerie St-Denis class of establishments and a cut above Second Cup, *$s et al.

Second : how can a latte-cafè be very good if the espresso is lousy ?

In theory, you're right. In practice, hot milk (to say nothing of cinnamon and chocolate sprinkles) can hide a multitude of sins.

But, really, what's so terrible about fair trade coffee and/or the establishments that sell it?

Edited January 27, 2004 by carswell (log)

[Walnuts]

Cafe Olympico really makes one of Montreal's best espressi, and you can even taste how good the coffee is in a café latte. The fact that you come out of there stinking like an ashtray, even when there are only 5 people in the place, is an entirely different story.

I passed by there the other night and noticed that they use an automatic machine, but have an old piston espresso machine in the corner. I don't know if they use it at all. I still think that you get the best crema from the old piston machines. I guess it is much faster to use the new automatics.

And what about your not only dismissing but publicly dissing an establishment on the basis of a single experience?

Carswell, that is some good advice. I don't think it is fair to censure an establishment on the basis of one visit, let alone without having visited it at all.

[SteveW]

Carswell & Walnuts, both saying what you say, that people shouldn't diss a establishment based on one try(in particular not saying it in public). Then what do you two, think of all the published restaurant critics in the city who write reviews based on one visit(any Montreal restaurant critic regularly makes more than one visit per restaurant review)? What do you think of Lesley Chesterman's restaurant reviews? Any Montreal critics you like? I've said it many times on eGullet, for the major publications in the major cities, critics should make at least 2 visits before the review.

-Steve

[carswell]

And what about your not only dismissing but publicly dissing an establishment on the basis of a single experience?

Carswell, that is some good advice. I don't think it is fair to censure an establishment on the basis of one visit, let alone without having visited it at all.

Touché, Walnuts, though I note you choose your words carefully: censure, not review. And there's the rub, bub. The difference with the Modavie thread is that I was responding to obvious spam (his mission accomplished, the newbie Breezer hasn't been heard from since) and so felt no compunction in pointing out that the spammer's claims and the Modavie website's hype didn't jibe with any report I'd received, including from people whose palates and judgement I trust like my own. Having made my point and taken you at your word that you weren't coordinating the spamming operation, I let the matter drop. And having learned in that thread that self-promotion is tolerated on this board, I've not raised a peep about it since, even when confronted with such world-class examples as the two Déli-cieux spams in the Montreal Smoked Meat thread (his mission accomplished, the newbie Joseph hasn't been heard from since).

Steve, Lesley can speak for herself, though I'm certain I've read here or elsewhere that she tries to visit an establishment more than once before penning a review. No idea what the policy is at the other papers; maybe Messrs. Tastet and Beauchemin will pipe up. I understand that it was Craig Claiborne who, on taking the resto critic's postion at the New York Times, insisted on repeated visits to establishments that were to be reviewed. That has always struck me as admirable. I also admire the pains Ruth Reichl is said to have taken to avoid being recognized (odds are some NYer is going to come along now and disabuse me of this notion). The problem here is that Montreal ain't the Big Apple and the Gazette and La Presse (not to mention Voir and Hour) ain't the Times. Everybody in the business knows everybody. And local reviewers can do only so much with the budget that's given them. That said, I think reviewers should make a point of noting when their judgement is based on a single visit.

Edited January 28, 2004 by carswell (log)

[Lesley C]

I, for one perhaps, make a huge effort to review restaurants anonymously and having worked as a pastry chef I know what complete bullshit it is for critics to say they don't get special treatment if they are recognized. They do. Been there myself, devoting tons of time on a plate destined for a critic. I even managed to review Toque! anonymously and I know Normand and Christine. I'd say I'm recognized no more than five times a year.

About repeated visits. It's often a matter of budget, something which is not an issue with a mega paper like the Times. Once I've blown my budget I'm out of money, and in a high-end restaurant, that usually means one visit. I actually used to pay for visits out of my pocket. Can't manage that anymore. Also, I'm not a staff member at the paper (no restaurant critic in Montreal is, save for Marie-Claude Lortie who is the editor of La Presse's Actuel section). Time is money and if I go out for three, three-hour meals a week, I'm not getting paid for that time. I'm strictly paid for 850-1200 words of copy. They don't even pay my gas if I review a restaurant out of town.

It all comes down to time and money, and the newspapers in Montreal just aren't willing to treat the restaurant beat with the respect it deserves. It's not a job, it's a freelance assignment. No one in Montreal could make a living out of restaurant reviewing alone. It's below minimum wage pay. Don't forget, reviewers like Claiborne, Grimes and Riechl were on salary, they were paid to dine out a dozen times a week. We're not.

But yes, that second visit still happens quite often, especially when I don't feel I quite grasped what the restaurant is all about (like A L'Os). Trust me, one visit to a place like Gibby's, and I'm ready to review.

BTW, could we try to stick to the topic at hand. I just wrote up this big reply and now looked up and noticed this is on the coffee thread. Jeez

[maxanon]

I've tried TM&C and had mixed experiences. Sometimes the coffee was great and other times they were okay. That goes for the milk based and the expresso coffees. I've tried their cafe du jour and even got some suggestions. I go there for the great breakfast.

I've had some great (overpriced) coffees at Starbucks as well as some terrible ones. I've only had mediocre coffee at Second Cup. Cafe Olympico makes a great expresso, its too bad I don't live in the area, as I would never go in there before going anywhere else as it reeks of smoke. Its more of a paper and bedhead, need to wake up on a Sunday morning, type of place.

I think a great coffee is like a great steak. The quality and the prep of the main ingredient matters a lot as does the person creating the coffee. However, someone with the skill and the proper instrument(s) can make a far better version at home since its made to taste (probably far cheaper as well).

As an aside, I find that the papers see resto reviews as filler. Its a pity that in a city known for its number (and quality) of restos that papers aren't taking their critics seriously. I'm assuming that being a critic must be a passion for them to endure it. It must explain why a lot of people don't last very long at it.

[maxanon]

Sorry, got a server error and tried to resubmit. Too bad there isn't a delete button for users.

Edited January 29, 2004 by maxanon (log)

[maxanon]

sorry again

Edited January 29, 2004 by maxanon (log)

[iroc326]

So I went back to TMC to give it another chance.....Folks, it is simply not a serious coffee place. Again the damn espresso in a cappuccino cup !

I feel nostalgia when I go back to all the times I went to cafes in Milan ordering cafe marocchino, macchiato, etc...Once, just for curiosity, I stopped at 5 different cafes during an afternoon of shopping. Do I need to tell you I looked like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas when he's spotting the chopper !!!!!

Another very good espresso is in a fashion store on Peel....But this one is a secret !

[davidkemp]

Hi all.excellent espresso can be had at cafe vesuvius on hutchison street,i personaly think its one of the best in the city .if i am wrong let me know.like to know what you all think.

[davidkemp]

just came back from union coffee on jean talon ,purchased some certified organic colombian ,makes an excellent espresso .24.50 a kilo