All About Cheese in Montreal & Quebec

[Lesley C]

Luc Mailloux told me he never even puts his cheese in the fridge because it kills off some of the best bacteria. He leaves it on his kitchen counter -- all summer long. You can eat it with a spoon.

[mastermatt78]

i use a lot of cheese as PROPS to decorate my kitchen at home......it is really cool......

[VivreManger]

Having shopped at both Hamel and Le marché des saveurs, I recommend both enthusiastically, but Hamel would be much better for cheese.

In July Hamel offered the following, but i can't tell you what might be available now:

Riopelle, raw cow milk, 37% m.g., humidity 50%. Tastes like a very good St. Andre -- excellent cheese. I though it is less rich than St. Andre.

I also got their Caprice des saisons, raw milk brie, slightly amoniac, runny but still very tasty, though I am not sure that was from Quebec.

Ciel de charlevoix, semi soft ripened blue cheese, raw cow milk, m.g. 27%, hum 47% moisture

I like the Valbert I got there, but I can't find my notes to tell you more about it.

Coordinates: La Fromagerie Hamel, headquarters, 220 rue Jean-Talon Est, H2R 1S7, 514-272-1161, fax 514-272-1163, www.fromageriehamel.com

They have other branches in the east of the city, but it does not seem that you will be getting there.

The bakery Le Fromentier sold me an excellent raw milk sheep cheese Allegretto, from Abitibi. Their breads are worth getting too. Le Fromentier at 1375 Laurier St. E, 514-527-3327

The following is a list of their breads: Panne de pesto, le sociètal, le petit crottin, l'Amèricucurbitacé, la manomin des Ashinobegs, foglia fourré, noisettes et abricot, trio de terroir, le prophètique, le pain de Jeanne, el fortissimo, paõ de Trigo et de Milho, le compostelle, la galette d'Hippocrate.

Farines biologiques raisins, cannelle, girofle, muscade blé entier enrobé de sèsame, tournesol ou farine farines de blé et seigle, riz sauvage, tamari. Coriandre farines de seigle et de blé, ail, carvi et fromage fort, noix de grenoble. Jus de pomme. Pavot pourdes de cacao. Chocalot noir farine de blé tamisé, olives et gruyére, thym oregano

I won't translate, but they specialize in whole and unusual grains, such as sunflower, wild rice, using organic flours and other unusual ingredients.

Customers amble in and out clutching loaves of all shapes, sizes, colors and textures, an impressive array of gluten, yeast and flour. The store lacks a street front and can be easily missed since entrance is through a side alley with only a sign, no shop-window to mark the way. As I was driving down the street, I had been tracking the numbers, but it was the serious contented faces of bread-lovers and the loaves they carried that marked the spot.

The store occupies a large open basement space, airy and cool. Separate counters offer breads, charcuterie, and cheese. Pastries may have been on offer as well, but I did not notice. I looked over and smelled the breads -- a Provencal bread with cheese, olives, oregano, and other spices caught my eye first. The large dark rye, almost Poilane-like in its size, but not quite captured me as did the sesame covered whole wheat. The descriptions and options were mind-boggling, -- sesame sunflower- seed, accompanied as they were with the airy poetry that is so charming and alluring in French, but so vapid and pretentious when translated into English -- the bread bags say it all.

Le marché des saveurs has an excellent selection of easily imported products, unusual preserves, Inuit teas, tinned foie gras, and ice cider, a unique Quebec product. DEfinitely worth a visit. In my experience US customs don't even treat cider as alcohol, though it packs as much as wine. Pinnacle is good, but all of them are woth trying. The best taste like an appley sauterne and they go will with foie gras.

The SAQ on Parc St. past Laurier also has an excellent selection of ice ciders and the staff there were much more helpful than that at Jean-Talon.

As for cryovacing cheese -- my experience has been largely successful. Even when Lufthansa lost my bag for a few days with several raw milk lovelies, including a whole brin d'amour. I was afraid what might happen in the July heat, but all remained tasty and healthy.

I store them out of the fridge in a lovely ceramic cheese holder I bought in Toledo more ten years ago. It is great for Manchego.

[elyse]

I knew someone who used to smuggle cheese from France by wrapping it in black pepper.

[docsconz]

VivreManger, Excellent post. I'll have to look for Le Fromentier next time I'm in the lovely city of Montreal.

[identifiler]

Wow Vivre Manger ! Great description. Hamel always has some great offers. The are some amazing small one too. There's a great little store in St-Lambert with some excelent local cheese. Le Fromentier is a must. It's been around for quite a while now. A stop at Queue de Cochon for a Toulouse is another great stop in the area. I also suggest getting a feta omelette at BYBLOS and have some rose jelly and tea pudding... very good breakfast before heading out to the market.

I cannot believe that they still have the same names, selections than in the begining ! When that place started, we really thaught these folks were in a religious sect. They were doing everything with the least mechanical use. Tons of folks working all the time... day and night. Flour all over the place. I've noticed the bread choices getting very hot in some restaurants in Montréal. I wouldn't be suprise if Fromentier supplied them.

Le foglia fouré... LOL, you must absolutely read the man. He fancies jam of mirabelles.

Edited September 19, 2003 by identifiler (log)

[VivreManger]

I believe Toque gets its bread from Le Fromentier.

I did find Hamel very helpful and willing to offer tastes, even on a busy Friday AM. I assume that somebody there can speak enough English to help a monophone.

But remember the words: lait cru, RAW MILK, pronounced lay crew, more or less. It would be good if you pronounce the L at the top and front of the mouth, rather than the back and start spitting up ever so slightly as you pronounce the R.

[guru]

I've been wanting to talk about Quebec cheeses for a long time but i'm always very carefull with that topic because everytime you say something negative, there seems to be very agressive people ready to bash your head.I recently did an event where Quebec cheeses were to be judged and my only duty was to cut them and put them on a plate. Twenty-two of the most popular ones were given to me and i now have a strong opinion on the subject. I'd really like to hear from more people and i will give my impression of what i've seen this week.We are trying so hard to promote our cheeses but what needs to be tuned...still.

[cook-em-all]

I think there is a large problem with consistency.

my 2 cents.

[Culatello]

I have to agree with cook-em-all, there inconsistent

[eric_n-b]

I'm interested to hear what you think, negative or not. I've had only a limited number of Québec cheeses; some were good and (frankly) some were plain awful. I can't speak to day-to-day consistency.

[maxanon]

Allthough I have a limited experience with Quebec cheese, my experience with them (and the major reason why don't eat a lot of it) is the consistancy. It still feels like an amatuer operation. Its a shame. I've had some very good cheese (and some terrible ones as well).

I can't say how to fix it since I wouldn't know the first thing to do.

[Lesley C]

OK, I'll add my two cents now that I've read some pretty outrageous comments about Quebec cheese being amateurish (what the ?...) and awful (big word).

I was at the tasting Guru mentioned and I spoke to him about the problem with consistency, especially with cheeses like Pied de Vent which ranges from spectacular to too bitter.

Any good cheese, and when I say good I mean artisanal, will have consistency problems. In fact, a good raw milk cheese should taste different every month, especially in the summer when the cows are fed fresh grass and clover.

My small complaint with the cheese is that sometimes the texture is different and some really superb cheeses can vary from slice to slice (that I don't get).

At that tasting we sampled 22 specimens. Out of all of them, only the Providence D'Oka did not score high for me because I found it way too bitter. Otherwise, I just LOVED the Triple Creme du Village de Warwick, the Allegretto, the Kenogami (a long-standing favourite), the Mamirolle, Chevre Noir (another long-stading favourite), and the Sabot de Blanchette. These cheeses were all superb, and that tasting didn't even include most of the Quebec cheese I buy most frequently such as the Chevallier-Mailloux, Laracam, Migneron, Victor & Bertholde, Mi-Careme, Le Douanier, Caprices de Saisons and Caprices des Cantons, Cheddar Perron, and Le St-Basile de Portneuf.

There are now over 80 cheese makers in our province and between 250-300 varieties of cheese. Not too shabby. You want some awful cheese, head west or south. In Quebec the awful cheese is made by mega companies who churn out tasteless mozzarella.

I would like these people who complain about "awful" cheese, to please name specific brands. Also, could you tell me where you're from and what local cheeses you have that could even come close in variety and quality. It's also worth mentioning that a Quebec cheese (Fritz Kaiser's Le Douanier) won the Canada Dairy Bureau's best cheese in Canada award for the fourth time in a row last month -- and most of the finalists were from this province as well.

Quebec cheese makers are going through a tough time right now due to the Government's policy on milk quotas. Luc Mailloux is probably going to cease production and the fellow who makes the Lait and Creme D'Antan is going through hell right now.

For anyone who really cares about this subject, and actually wants to learn a thing or two, I suggest you head over to Fromagerie Au Gre des Champs in Iberville and talk to the lovely young couple who produce both the D'Iberville and le Gre des champs cheeses. Ask them why their cheese, made with organic raw milk, might have consistency problems. They will be happy to tell you about the struggles they encounter. I went, and it was fascinating. There is nothing in the least bit amateurish about their installations. Their production may be small, but hardly amateurish (maxanon, I would request you be more specific and name names of amateurish installations you have visited, rather than just shooting off generalizations based on your -- admittedly -- limited experience).

And if you can't get to Iberville, pick up a map of the new Route des Fromages du Quebec and choose another region. You'll find cheese makers all over this province, and some friggin' amazing cheese. Again, not too shabby for a province with a population of what, just over 7 million.

I'm ready to discuss Quebec cheese ad nauseum, BUT I would kindly request that people please know a bit more about the subject or are willing to give concrete examples before shooting off their mouths regarding one of Quebec's most accomplished, complex and fascinating industries.

[porkpa]

Lesley,

Next time don't pussyfoot. :-)). Tell us how you really feel.

Murray Brown

[identifiler]

As someone who is close to organic farmers, everyone knows we hardly had any organic apples last year, now imagine dealing with milk... then goat milk... then the fact that you can't keep them pregnant 24-7, not withstanding even all the feed control, the size of stalls, etc... People think it's easy to work true pure produce... Then start dealing with the ecocert inspection and the ag canada approuval...

[VivreManger]

I am not in Quebec often enough to deal regularly with the problem of consistency but of the cheeses on Lesley's list I have tried some in the summer and in the early spring and found two in particular -- Migneron, Caprices de Saisons remarkably good both times. The Caprice des saisons made by Fromagerie La Germaine is an excellent raw milk Camembert, certainly superior both times to a simialr cheese sold by the famous Paris purveyor, Barthelemey. Migneron is one of my favorite cheeses. Unfortunately I don't have my notes handy but the cheddars I have tried from l'île des Greux cooperative have been reliable, nothing spectacular, but a good everyday cheese.

I liked the Alegretto, but I have tried it only once.

I have found the St Benoit du Lac cheeses not worth tasting. I suspect however that they are remarkably consistent.

Now that I think about I, I have not been thrilled by any Quebec blue cheeeses and I am not a fan of oka, perish the thought.

Edited May 18, 2004 by VivreManger (log)

[docsconz]

I have never had a bad Quebec cheese, although I have only had them from places sucvh as Toque or the former Chaput. Actually, not only have I not had a bad cheese from Quebec (I am sure they exist), but every one I've had has been quite delicious, including the bleus.

[Lesley C]

One of the problems with Quebec blue cheese is that the producers are not permitted to make it in the traditional manner such as Roquefort. Luc Mailloux wanted to make an authentic bleu cheese, but he was told by MAPAQ to forget it. He also wanted to make artisanal raw milk butter for restaurants, but that was prohibited as well.

Keep in mind, there are very strict laws these people must follow. Sometimes, as in the case of the blues, to the detriment of the product.

[identifiler]

Is Luc as strong minded as his famous brother ? These guys did a lot to cheese in Quebec, in return, I guess the cheese did a lot to Mailloux tax breaks. Apparently he has a wopping R and D break. So be it.

[slbunge]

The highlight of our one trip to Montreal (I have a feeling we will be back to Quebec many times) were the local cheeses. I can't speak to consistency but I can say that there was a fantastic variety of locally produced, high quality cheese at fromagerie and at restaurants. As an example, at Hamel (Jean-Talon) I asked the cheesemonger to help me select five local, raw-milk cheeses for lunch and he proceeded to spend 30 minutes with me drawing samples and making selections to ensure a solid representation of the local offerings: coastal vs inland, sheep vs goat vs cow, soft vs firm vs hard. At the end of the sampling, there were many in the case of local cheeses that I still hadn't tried.

I left for home feeling that the craft of artisinal cheesemaking in Quebec was vibrant and well-rounded. A great asset to those living in the region.

[maxanon]

Woah,

I guess I touched a raw nerve. First off, I did state that I was an amateur in cheese tasting and if anyone takes a novice's opinion as gospel for the whole industry, that's unreasonable. Apologies (in advance) for the lengthy rest of my defense.

Secondly, I understand the issues with making a quality product based upon raw materials that can be highly variable. Stressed animals, temperature, feed quality can effect a lot of things. However, as a pure consumer, I only care about the finished product. Being a little knowledgeable about being at the mercy of Nature will allow me to be a little forgiving. But, that does not take away from the fact that I've some bad (and great) experiences with local cheese (saputo/mass market not even considered).

Unfortunately, I cannot meet your challenge (of naming names) for 2 reasons. Primarily because I don't remember. I normally have a few summer parties where I go to JT market (or that that french store on Monkland) and buy a lot of cheese. I ask for advice and also take some chances. I'm not focussed on the cheese in as much that I can tell you the producers, etc. Some friends also bring some food and everything gets all jumbled. Suffice it to say its not worth the bother to backtrack. However, I did have a few "bring local cheese only" parties a couple of times in the last few years (yes, we do themes). The overall opinion was that the product was variable. Yes, I understand it can be producer related, time, etc. But when I go buy something I don't get a sampler of past (and future) productions to compare. Nor do I know the producers personally to get their excuses.

Lastly, if my little comment caused such a reaction (eventhough I confessed my inexperience and that I did have some wonderful local cheese as well), I would not want to malign a producer's product (and perhaps dissuade an adventurous soul) due to the inherent inconsistancies. Nor get a further bashing.

Max

PS: My head feels a little bruised.

PPS: In the future, if an "expert's" opinion is only allowed, please specify.

Edited May 21, 2004 by maxanon (log)

[jayt90]

The topic begs the question, "How do P.Q. cheeses compare with French?"

[eat2much]

So I guess the obvious question is whether the cheeses were in fact terrible or rather not to your taste? In other words is it a question of "I know what brie tastes like and this is lousy brie" or "I've never tried Limburger before and based on this this first taste, I'll never try it again".....

Enquiring minds want to know!

Edited May 21, 2004 by eat2much (log)

[carswell]

The topic begs the question, "How do P.Q. cheeses compare with French?"

Not wanting to get my head bitten off, I've been hesitant to reply. But one of the points I would have made was that there are two ways to approach the question. Compared with where they were a couple of decades ago and with the rest of North America, Quebec cheeses are generally excellent. Compared with the best cheeses in the world, they have some distance to go.

In many ways, the situation is similar to that of the local beer industry. Enormous strides have been made in recent years, with a huge increase in quality and a proliferation of styles, mostly driven by small producers. And the crème de la crème is nearly world-class. That said, the products are for the most part stylistically derivative, and none has yet trumped the Old World models on which they are based. IMHO, of course.

Like others in this thread, I've noted problems with consistency. I'm not talking seasonal variation, either; the same cheese, from the same reputable purveyor, at more or less the same degree of ripeness will be delicious one week and nothing to get excited about a week or three later. Also, the range of styles could be wider. There are so many softish washed-rind cheeses in the St-Paulin mould but little along the lines of, say, Mimolette, Manchego, Comté, Raclette, Crottin, Roquefort or various Tomes, not to mention some of the better Italian, Corsican and Iberian cheeses.

Still, the industry is young, and recent progress augurs well for the future. I just wish I felt so sanguine about the local wine industry...

Edited May 21, 2004 by carswell (log)

[jayt90]

There is also government and dairy association influence: keeping foreign cheese out (or at bay) by quota; restricting non pasteurized milk; allowing Euro names as local (Parmesan, Brie, etc); holding up the price of milk , butter, and milk powder when the surplus could be sent abroad. Some would suggest that the local industry is protected, hence less competitive.