Crocodile and Alligator

[liuzhou]

 

Ever eaten a nice bowl of crocodile soup? Crocodile steak? Crocodile sausages for breakfast?

 

Just outside Liuzhou city centre is a crocodile farm full of the creatures which get sold all over China. The specific type is the Crocodylus siamensis or Siamese Crocodile picture above. This freshwater species is native to Indonesia (Borneo and possibly Java), Brunei, East Malaysia, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam.

 

In the wild, they mainly eat fish and snakes supplemented by other reptiles, small mammals and birds. They very rarely attack humans but get grumpy when tending newborns. Who doesn't?

 

Quote

The Siamese crocodile is a stocky, medium-sized freshwater species, with adult males typically reaching a length of 3.5 metres (11.5 feet) and females measuring around 2.7 metres (8.9 feet). The weight of adults ranges between 40 and 120 kilograms, with the largest male recorded reaching a length of 4 metres (13 feet) and a weight of 350 kilograms (771.6 pounds).
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Earth.Org

 

According to The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) Red List, the total Siamese crocodile population in the wild is critically endangered with only around 500-1000 mature individuals. This decline is due to habitat loss and losses to poaching for the food and leather markets. According to the World Wildlife Fund), Cambodia has most and there may be now be around 100-300 wild adults in Cambodia following a reintroduction projectby the government.

 

There are however around 1.5 million Siamese crocodiles in farms in Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam and China. These are sold as meat, as skins for leather and as traditional medicine products. In addition, they sometimes mate in captivity with seawater crocodiles producing larger hybrid species. The number of these is unknown.

 

Crocodile farm, Liuzhou

 

Known as 鳄鱼 (è yú) in Chinese, the creatures can be bought whole for ¥1391.43 / $190.40 USD or in parts – a tail will cost you ¥340 / $46.55 USD, the head ¥113.43 / $17.58 USD, a claw ¥241.23 / $33.02 USD. This would be for the restaurant trade. As for the home cook, they are more ikely to be buying a 500g steak at ¥80.55 / $11.03 USD.

 

Crocodile tail steak

 

The scales are removed (not an easy job) but normally the skin is left on. The meat is often braised as 红烧鳄鱼 (hóng shāo è yú), red-cooked crocodile. The 'palms' are a favourite cut for red cooking. The meat can also be roasted or used in soups, often with Chinese yam. The meat has a slightly fishy flavour; the texture is more like chicken; the skin like pork skin.

 

The meat is made into crocodile jerky and there is even a type of instant crocodile soup. That, I haven't tried.

 

 

I’ll post some recipes later. You can make them in a crockpot.

 

Images courtesy of Liuzhou Crocodile Farm.

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

We don't have crocodile here, but we have alligator.  I've had it in restaurants - quite tasty - kind of like chicken, but I'd say more like a large steak of frogs legs. Very mildly flavored.  I can even get alligator steaks (which come from the tail) from one of the online supermarkets I use.

[Tropicalsenior]

I have eaten crocodile, or was it alligator. I don't remember. It was at a southern barbecue in Seattle. They had ordered ribs from Louisiana. Would the taste be different or would it be similar?

All I remember about it was that it was delicious. The texture was kind of like chicken and the taste was a little fishy. The one thing that surprised me was that the ribs were not bones, they were cartilage.

We have both alligator and crocodiles here in Costa Rica but they call them all crocodiles. The crocodiles are allowed to eat people (it happens a couple times a year) but the people here are not allowed to eat the crocodiles.

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

We don't have crocodile here, but we have alligator.  I've had it in restaurants - quite tasty - kind of like chicken, but I'd say more like a large steak of frogs legs. Very mildly flavored.  I can even get alligator steaks (which come from the tail) from one of the online supermarkets I use.

 

Alligator is also common here; more so than crocodile. I've had it often.

 

1 hour ago, Tropicalsenior said:

Would the taste be different or would it be similar?

 

They are similar. I'd say the crocodile is 'meatier', but that's mostly texture.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[heidih]

I've had various alligator preps in Louisiana USA, but what came immediately to mind was this crocodile lechon I saw  

 

[liuzhou]

Alligator kebabs in Zhongshan night market, Nanning, Guangxi.

 

[Tropicalsenior]

As a Westerner, I would be more inclined to eat them if I didn't have to look into the eyes of the animal that I was eating.

[liuzhou]

6 minutes ago, Tropicalsenior said:

As a Westerner, I would be more inclined to eat them if I didn't have to look into the eyes of the animal that I was eating.

 

In much of Asia, especially China, people want to see evidence that what they are eating is what it is advertised as. The first time I really took that in was in 1997 in a Yunnan market where someone was selling donkey meat and had the donkey's head propped up on the trestle table that was his business premises.

Now I hardly notice these things. I find it a welcome honesty as to what they are selling, rather the west's plastic-wrapped meat anonymity and avoidance of explicit recognition of the food's origin.

[heidih]

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

In much of Asia, especially China, people want to see evidence that what they are eating is what it is advertised as. The first time I really took that in was in 1997 in a Yunnan market where someone was selling donkey meat and had the donkey's head propped up on the trestle table that was his business premises.

Now I hardly notice these things. I find it a welcome honesty as to what they are selling, rather the west's plastic-wrapped meat anonymity and avoidance of explicit recognition of the food's origin.

Isn't it the same in phrance so you know the rabbit or hare is not a cat - show head/legs?  

[liuzhou]

If you mean France, then no. I've never seen that in France.

[FeChef]

Ive made alligator nuggets from chunks of tail meat, taste like chicken, but as another has said, its more like frog legs which also taste like chicken. Either way, it was nice to try, but chicken is much cheaper in the US.

[liuzhou]

I have now, after much research, decided that I've never had alligator in China. It was all probably actual crocodile meat. There are only two alligator species in the world, Alligator mississippiensis, the American alligator, and Alligator sinensis, the Chinese alligator.

 

The Chinese alligator, also now as the Yangze alligator is a critically endengered species which was, in 2003, nearly extinct with only 100 remaining. Thanks to conservation efforts, that number has risen and they are being bred artificially in Anhui Yangtze Alligator National Nature Reserve in Anhui province. Over 1,000 specimens have been released into the wild and they have laid 428 eggs in the wild, with 279 of them hatching naturally, according to monitors.

 

It is strictly illegal to eat or even possess Chinese alligators.

 

Alligator meat is advertised but is in all probability crocodile. I suspect that this is not deliberate fraud but a linguistic error. The most common name in Mandarin for both alligator and crocodile are the same, 鳄鱼 (è yú), just as mice and rats are considered to be the same, as are hares and rabbits.

 

This confusion doesn't arise with the Chinese alligator which has a number of names in Mandarin.

鼍 (tuó) , 鮀 (tuó) 鼍龙 (tuó lóng), 猪婆龙 (zhū pó lóng) or 扬子鳄 (yáng zǐ è).

I did, however, eat what I was told was alligator in Jamaica in the 1970s and see no reason to doubt it wasn't the genuine thing.

 

[FeChef]

Does it matter? I never had croc, but i bet they taste pretty close to Alligator. I probably couldn't tell the difference in a blind taste test. Now, You are talking about "fresh water crocs" I would love to try salt water crocs.

[liuzhou]

3 hours ago, FeChef said:

Does it matter?

 

In terms of taste, not a lot. As I've already said, they taste very similar. however, taste is not the only consideration. Price, nutritional value, sustainability status etc also come into the equation. Also, I prefer to know precisely what I'm eating.

Edited October 5, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[FeChef]

7 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

In terms of taste, not a lot. As I've already said, they taste very similar. howevr, taste is not the only consideration. Price, nutritional value, sustainability status etc also come into the equation. Also, I prefer to know precisely what I'm eating.

But don't ignore my inquiry about Salt water Crocs. Have you never tasted them? Thats what i really want to know about.

[liuzhou]

13 minutes ago, FeChef said:

Have you never tasted them?

 

No. Ive never tasted them. They are not on offer here.

[FeChef]

9 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

No. Ive never tasted them. They are not on offer here.

Well, that sucks. lol

Do people even eat Salt Water croc? I would assume people eat them where they are found.

Edited October 5, 2023 by FeChef (log)

[heidih]

1 hour ago, FeChef said:

Well, that sucks. lol

Do people even eat Salt Water croc? I would assume people eat them where they are found.

Depends on where and coservation regs  https://oceana.org/marine-life/saltwater-crocodile/n

[liuzhou]

红烧鳄鱼 (hóng shāo è yú) Red-Braised Crocodile

 

Note: This recipe is adapted from two slightly different recipes in Chinese.

 

Ingredients:

 

500 grams crocodile leg or tail meat (scaled but preferably with skin intact)

1 piece cassia bark

3 star anise

3 garlic cloves and an equal quantity of chopped ginger

2 soup spoons dark soy sauce

50 grams rock sugar

Chopped scallions/ green onions to garnish

Potato starch* slurry

 

Method:

 

1. Wash and cube the crocodile meat.

2. Stir fry the garlic and ginger in a little oil until fragrant, then add meat and stir fry to colour.

3. Add the cassia and star anise and cover the meat with water.

4. Add soy sauce and sugar.

5. Boil for ten minutes, then simmer for 30 minutes.

6. Add starch slurry to thicken.

7. Garnish with scallion / green onion and serve with rice and a side of stirfried vegetable, or as part of a larger selection of dishes.

 

* OK, you can use c⊘rn starch if you are in league with the devil.

 

 

[Bernie]

4 hours ago, FeChef said:

Well, that sucks. lol

Do people even eat Salt Water croc? I would assume people eat them where they are found.

Yep they are farmed in the north of Australia. Both for skins and meat. (here is a sample https://www.koorana.com.au/)

They are protected in the wild because they came close to extinction. Now they are on the rebound. They can grow to about 6~7 meters (23feet) weigh in at a healthy 1000~1500kg (2200~3300lbs) and they eat just about anything up to (or over) their own weight that was or is alive.

It depends on the size of the crocodile but they have been known to seize a full grown bullock and drag them under. A man is just a tidbit to the large ones (4~6 meters)

A 1meter one will probably have a go at a leg or arm of an adult or a whole child, anything bigger will fancy their chances at a whole adult man or woman

 

In most of the northern states you are pretty silly if you wade swim or camp next to tidal creeks and streams and you just don't swim in the northern waters, because of various marine stingers (jellyfish) and more important saltwater crocodiles. (we don't have to worry about sharks, the crocodiles ate them...🙂)

 

[liuzhou]

I've seen Australian croc meat in supermarkets in England, but never here in China.

 

[Duvel]

Crocodile ramen is Taiwan’s latest food fad | CNN

 

 

[dcarch]

5 hours ago, Duvel said:

Crocodile ramen is Taiwan’s latest food fad | CNN

 

 

I admire their desire for good plating design.😆

 

dcarch 

Edited October 5, 2023 by dcarch (log)

[Duvel]

3 hours ago, dcarch said:

I admire their desire for good plating design.😆

 

dcarch 

That coming from the master of skillful plating designs - they should use that in their advertising 🙏

[liuzhou]

Slight aside, but food and alligator related.

 

The Chinese alligator is said to be the origin of the dragon myth, a powerful symbol in Chinese culture. Dragons in China are considered a good thing, unlike in the west.

 

However, they are also invoked in the names of several foods and beverages. Dragon in Chinese is 龙 (lóng).

 

Lobsters are 龙虾 (lóng xiā) dragon shrimp.

Longan (the fruit) are 龙眼 (lóng yǎn) dragon eyes.

Bombay duck are 龙头鱼 (lóng tóu yú) dragon head fish.

Oolong tea is 乌龙茶 (wū lóng chá) black dragon tea

There is also the famous tea, 龙井茶 (lóng jǐng chá), dragon’s well tea.

 

Innumerable dishes’ names also invoke the dragon.

 

So, you can swill back your tea as you eat your lobster dinner and thank the alligator.