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Pastrypastmidnight

Croissant feedback and trouble shooting

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So I tried my hand at croissants for the first time in about 5 years. I used the recipe from the Bouchon Bakery cookbook. Despite the fact that I really struggled rolling them out (the dough was very stiff and resisted rolling), tore the dough layer in small patches quite a bit on the last turn, and probably took too long letting the butter get too warm, I got nice layers on the outside and on the interior and they did shatter nicely on the outside. I did not get that beautiful open honeycomb interior, however. 

 

I’d love any tips or feedback or advice anyone could offer to do better next time—thanks!

 

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Seems like a mix of concurrent factors:

- you tore the dough, that's the main cause for the not perfect honeycomb;

- they are a bit underproofed (section is a bit dense);

- oven was low, the crust should be darker.

 

 

 

Teo

 


Teo

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24 minutes ago, teonzo said:

Seems like a mix of concurrent factors:

- you tore the dough, that's the main cause for the not perfect honeycomb;

- they are a bit underproofed (section is a bit dense);

- oven was low, the crust should be darker.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Thank you! What temperature do you recommend for a home, non-convection oven? This recipe said 350F/177C. 

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I would say 200-220°C, much depends on your oven as usual.

The most important thing is avoiding tearing the dough during the various turns, if you tear it then you ruin the lamination effect.

Another important thing is to not develop too much the gluten during the mixing stage, since you continue developing it with the rolling and folding. You got this perfect in the photo, the croissant section is really high and did not flatten. So do not worry if the dough resists rolling, that's normal. The dough tears if the butter is too cold, to avoid this you need to put it in the warmest part of your fridge and keep it controlled, if it gets too cold and becomes hard then you are screwed. Never put the dough in the freezer during the rolling and folding.

 

 

 

Teo

 

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Teo

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On 6/23/2019 at 4:43 PM, teonzo said:

I would say 200-220°C, much depends on your oven as usual.

The most important thing is avoiding tearing the dough during the various turns, if you tear it then you ruin the lamination effect.

Another important thing is to not develop too much the gluten during the mixing stage, since you continue developing it with the rolling and folding. You got this perfect in the photo, the croissant section is really high and did not flatten. So do not worry if the dough resists rolling, that's normal. The dough tears if the butter is too cold, to avoid this you need to put it in the warmest part of your fridge and keep it controlled, if it gets too cold and becomes hard then you are screwed. Never put the dough in the freezer during the rolling and folding.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Thank you again for the advice! I was going to try again yesterday but I ran out of time. It’ll have to wait until my next bonbon project is complete ;) . Thanks for all your help!

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PPM, for beginning out, I really liked Burno Albouze's recipe

 

https://www.brunoskitchen.net/blog/post/croissant-taste-of-paris

 

My method is a little bit different from his, but I really like the recipe.

 

I got my Bouchon book out and it said to mix the dough for 20 minutes.  As Teo said, that is why too long for croissant dough.  For me, I take it just up to where it just begins to relax, but is not to the windowpane stage.

 

The other key to croissants and the crumb I have found to be one of the most important is the proofing.  They are proofed when they are proofed haha.  Meaning, there is no timeline for them to proof, so many people just read a recipe and go with the time listed.  Proof around 80°F (or lower to 75°F) and gently shake the pan they are on.  They should jiggle like Jell-O.  No jiggle, then they are not ready yet.  Usually I do not check until at least an hour, but often it is closer to 2 hours before they are fully proofed in my kitchen.

 

Oven temp for me usually starts at 425°F and then I reduce it to 375 for 12-20 minutes depending on the oven.  I have also done 375°F for about 20 minutes with fine results, but that was a deck oven at the school I taught at that would run hot most days.  I find it curious that Bouchon says to bake them for 35-40 minutes in a conventional oven.  Even at a lower temp, that is overkill and will be too dark (in your pic, they look a little too dark).

 

They also have a bready look to them.  What type of flour did you use?  When I am stuck with subpar AP flour, I will sometimes sub a certain percentage of the AP with pastry flour (10% or so).

 

Sorry if you already know all the above.  By the way, I have always wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your beautiful bonbons you post on IG.  I wish I were that diligent in posting stuff  🤔 and half as creative.  It definitely inspires me.

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47 minutes ago, Merry Berry said:

PPM, for beginning out, I really liked Burno Albouze's recipe

 

https://www.brunoskitchen.net/blog/post/croissant-taste-of-paris

 

My method is a little bit different from his, but I really like the recipe.

 

I got my Bouchon book out and it said to mix the dough for 20 minutes.  As Teo said, that is why too long for croissant dough.  For me, I take it just up to where it just begins to relax, but is not to the windowpane stage.

 

The other key to croissants and the crumb I have found to be one of the most important is the proofing.  They are proofed when they are proofed haha.  Meaning, there is no timeline for them to proof, so many people just read a recipe and go with the time listed.  Proof around 80°F (or lower to 75°F) and gently shake the pan they are on.  They should jiggle like Jell-O.  No jiggle, then they are not ready yet.  Usually I do not check until at least an hour, but often it is closer to 2 hours before they are fully proofed in my kitchen.

 

Oven temp for me usually starts at 425°F and then I reduce it to 375 for 12-20 minutes depending on the oven.  I have also done 375°F for about 20 minutes with fine results, but that was a deck oven at the school I taught at that would run hot most days.  I find it curious that Bouchon says to bake them for 35-40 minutes in a conventional oven.  Even at a lower temp, that is overkill and will be too dark (in your pic, they look a little too dark).

 

They also have a bready look to them.  What type of flour did you use?  When I am stuck with subpar AP flour, I will sometimes sub a certain percentage of the AP with pastry flour (10% or so).

 

Sorry if you already know all the above.  By the way, I have always wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your beautiful bonbons you post on IG.  I wish I were that diligent in posting stuff  🤔 and half as creative.  It definitely inspires me.

This is all great advice!

 

Iread the thing about the jiggle but I couldn’t find any videos online of what it should look like. I proofed for 2 hours 15 minutes at about 73F and when I shook the tray they wiggled back and forth but I don’t know if that was the desired jiggle. 

 

I’m going to read through all of this again before my next attempt. I’m up to my ears in chocolate and hot oven + chocolate does not mix ;). 

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

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To me, the jiggle is just like Jell-O.  The entire structure moves or wiggles from the bottom up.  If only the top barely moves, that is not enough.  It looks like it is going to collapse, but it does not.  I probably find 73° too low of a temp to proof at just because I feel like it would take it forever especially if there is no humidity to go along with it.  That said, I have seen 73°F be on the low end of the proofing range by some writers.

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1 hour ago, Merry Berry said:

To me, the jiggle is just like Jell-O.  The entire structure moves or wiggles from the bottom up.  If only the top barely moves, that is not enough.  It looks like it is going to collapse, but it does not.  I probably find 73° too low of a temp to proof at just because I feel like it would take it forever especially if there is no humidity to go along with it.  That said, I have seen 73°F be on the low end of the proofing range by some writers.

So where do you proof yours? To get a higher temperature?

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Right now it is pretty unscientific.  Used to, I was spoiled with a stand-up proof box.  Now, I have to put them near a warm oven if it's the wintertime, but, not close enough to get too hot and melt the butter out.  Of course, since I am in the South, it is easy to proof them the other 9 months out of the year 😳  The bakery I currently use gets pretty hot when the ovens are turned on, so I roll the carts close to them and that seems to do the trick.  With the heat and humidity lately, proofing is not a problem at all haha.

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