New Toy: Breville/Polyscience Control Freak!

[Dex]

11 hours ago, MJS301 said:

 

That's interesting. I wasn't aware 240V was available to all households...as the majority of your appliances would be 120V, how does it work ? Are the outlets switchable or are there dedicated 240V outlets scattered throughout the house.

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

[horseflesh]

Like @Dex said, 240V is technically available but little used here. In fact a 240V outlet is often referred to as a "dryer outlet" since that's one of the few routine uses.

 

That Aussie 240V CF is awesome.

[MJS301]

3 hours ago, Dex said:

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

Thanks for the Wiki explanation...so points in the kitchen & laundry (for specific 240V appliance) are designated & plug configuration is slightly different. Bit like petrol v diesel nozzels are different diameter to avoid mishaps.

[MJS301]

3 hours ago, Dex said:

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

 

1 hour ago, horseflesh said:

Like @Dex said, 240V is technically available but little used here. In fact a 240V outlet is often referred to as a "dryer outlet" since that's one of the few routine uses.

 

That Aussie 240V CF is awesome.

Good explanation from @Dex...also can assure US isn't the only 'and we complete the dumb circle' (which amused me) ...many countries including ours seem to thrive on 'dumb decissions & policies'...but we here to cook so won't delve into that one.

[adrianvm]

I got a Control Freak Home last week and am trying to understand if it's working correctly.   I don't have a lot of induction compatible pans, so I purchased a Hestan 8" nonstick skillet.  The balance isn't great on the Freak due to the heavy handle.  I also noticed that it's concave along the bottom by about 1mm.  There is a story that this flattens out under heat which appears to be false, as it looks just as curved if I put a straight edge on it while it's hot.   I measured the temperature with an IR thermometer, and observed situations where the pan temperature was reading 400 F while the Freak was reporting 250 F.  That seemed a little strange. 

 

I know the Freak is supposed to overshoot on high intensity, but by that much?  I thought initially that the overshoot would be visible on the display, but have come to realize that part of the reason the overshoot occurs is that the temperature probe is for some reason not keeping up with the pan temperature.  I have some puzzlement, though, about how I can have a 100 degree discrepancy right above the sensor position.  Can I really have a 100 deg gradient over the 3mm thickness of the pan? 

 

So I did a test with low intensity and the pan set to 250.  The temperatures reported by my IR thermometer rise to about 290 and then fall and stabilize around 285.  Is it possible that the IR thermometer has a 35 deg error?  It's been suggested that emissivity assumptions could introduce error, but the temperature from the IR thermometer is accurate at room temperature (76 F), agreeing certainly to within 1 deg F with other temperature measurements.  The error from incorrect emissivity should be proportional to absolute temperature, which is  298 K at room temperature.  A 1 deg F error is 0.2%.  A 35 deg F error at 250 degF is a 5% error.   So what's going on here?  Is the temperature sensor underreading?  Could it be connected to the concavity of the pan? 

 

I tried heating butter with the pan set to 350 and the butter browned unevenly across the pan and the temperature of the butter varied significantly across the surface.  (In this case values were all below 350.)

 

I did another test using a Demeyere Atlantis dutch oven with a 9" base.  To avoid measuring stainless steel I put a bit of oil in the pan and heated it on low speed.  This pan rose and stabilized at a temperature about 15-20 deg above the Freak set temperature, so a lower offset compared to the Hestan nonstick pan, but still high.  Temperature uniformity appeared to be better than butter in the Hestan. 

 

So what's going on?  Is my Freak defective?  Or is it the pans?  Or is my measurement system not accurate?   I have two IR thermometers that give the same reading.  The better (?) one is a Thermoworks with adjustable E, but (1) it's confusing to use it and (2) changing the E value seems to have no effect on the measurements.  (Like I set it to E=0.1 and measurements didn't change.) 

[afs]

Just FYI, the commercial Control Freak is apparently on sale for 1200 USD at Amazon US at the moment.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01G5MZZ5Q/egulletsociety-20

[afs]

The Control Freak Home manual is now available!

https://assets.breville.com/BMC800/BMC800_USCM_IB_J24_LR.pdf

Of note, the manual says that we can "create multi-step preset to playback automatically".  Oh yes.  Yes, yes, yes.

 

For reference, here is the manual for the commercial Control Freak.
https://www.breville.com/content/dam/breville/us/assets/miscellaneous/instruction-manual/commercial/CMC850-instruction-manual.pdf

[adrianvm]

Looks like someone moved the discussion of pans to a different thread on Induction Friendly Cookware.  Not unreasonable, but kind of confusing when notifications linked to nonexistent messages.

 

So here's a question about cooking.  I'm trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich, but using a weird bread made out of almonds that doesn't brown the same way as wheat bread.  I tried cooking at 325 and the bread browned in 30 seconds and the cheese was still cold.   So I tried lowering the temperature but it seemed like it was then too low to brown, so I raised it and then got a similar situation where it was brown on the second side, but the cheese still wasn't melted.   Then I ended up waiting a very long time for the cheese to melt after both sides were brown, probably at 285 or something like that.  Should I be looking for the coldest temperature that browns?   Does a given temperature produce a given fixed amount of browning?  (In other words, is browning like meat cooking that it happens based on temperature rather than time?)   Like can I sit at 325 indefinitely without browning any more?  And what conditions are needed to melt the cheese more quickly?   (I never figured out how to make this work reliably on my gas stove but I think tend to have a reverse problem of cheese melted and leaking out but sandwich not brown yet.) 

[Laurentius]

6 minutes ago, adrianvm said:

Should I be looking for the coldest temperature that browns? 

 

Probably should be looking for a particularly melty cheese.  Maybe even nuking your sandwich before the grilling.

 

But what you really need is a copy of Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking, so you can refer to the different temperatures that caramelization and the Maillard reactions begin.

 

You also likely already know that things like bacon will--eventually--brown at quite low temperature settings. 

[MJS301]

Is there a reason you’re using almond bread ? From your description it sounds like it’s not suitable for what you’re looking to achieve. Unless there’s a particular reason you need almond bread why make life difficult. 

[horseflesh]

It's possible that almond bread just isn't great for this application. 

 

Even with wheat bread I find that the bread can brown before the insides fully melt, especially with thick bread or if I am putting meats and things in there. I usually put the ingredients that will go inside the sandwich into the microwave for a moment, to get them up at least to room temperature. Then, I finish assembly and put it in the pan. 

 

[adrianvm]

Perhaps the almond bread isn't "great" for this application, but it makes a decent sandwich and dietary constraints make it one of the best options.  And in any case, that's the problem at hand.  I don't know if a wheat bread process is radically different.  I recall encountering similar issues with getting the cheese to melt when the bread browns. 

 

McGee says Maillard browning "becomes noticeable" around 230 F and has a table that lists it as happening at 250 F.  In fact, 250 F was the temperature I dropped to when browning was too fast at 325 F.  I don't find that I'm particularly enlightened---my recalled temperature thresholds seemed to be basically right.  Maybe what I need to understand is not how browning happens but how the cheese melts.  Note that I'm using a cheddar which is not a fabulous melter but is an OK melter---and it does melt.  Most better-melting cheese are too bland and making my own processed cheese with sodium citrate is too much trouble for this (and also my wife doesn't like that kind of processed cheese). 

 

The idea of microwaving the cheese first seems promising, though I usually butter the bread.  What stovetop conditions are needed to melt the cheese?   I could cover the pan and heat below browning temperature to soften the cheese, then uncover it and brown both sides, perhaps. 

 

 

[horseflesh]

For a simple cheese sandwich, cold ingredients grilled at 350F for 3 to 4 minutes per side works fine. But that's with regular bread. (I usually put butter in the pan and plop the sandwich into liquid butter instead of trying to spread butter on the bread.)

 

I am not picking on your bread, but it just may not perform the same. 

[adrianvm]

My bread definitely might not perform the same.   But knowing that procedure is helpful because it suggests something about what's necessary to melt the cheese.   One thing I did notice is that it seemed like I was never at risk of overcooking the sandwich.  On my gas stove sometimes while trying to melt the cheese I end up burning the bread and that never seemed to be a danger.