Eggs pasteurization

[Franci]

Sorry guys to be a pain lately but trying to do things right...So, point is,  I need to be sure my egg yolks and/or eggs are pasteurized to use in a product with no cooking.

I want to be able to do it in the most consistent and easy way. A lot of people just keep telling me, go with the always used pate a bombe method. But many also say it's not the safest method. Is it really not? It's just a matter of volume? It would be actually the easiest method for me.

I was thinking of pasteurizing the eggs sous vide but I think I need a special permit at work...do I? The end product also,  I don't think I can seal under vacuum without a special permit but I am positive I can seal the bags.

 

I was thinking of getting a thermomix or a hot mix (hence the question Kerry!) but do I really need the investment at the beginning?

[JeanneCake]

Is buying the pasteurized liquid yolks not a possibility? I can get them locally through a distributor or at Restaurant Depot.  If you have a relationship with a chef, they might be willing to let you buy on their account.  At Restaurant Depot, if there is one any where near you, you just need to show your business ID # and you can become a member (it's kind of like a wholesale club, but you have to have an active business to qualify for membership, and there is no membership fee).

[Franci]

Thanks JeanneCake. My dilemma is that I spend a lof of money to buy these organic eggs from pastured raised chickens...and I like the idea of using them! 

[JeanneCake]

I also don't think the pate a bombe method will be an accepted method where the health dept or a wholesale requirement is going to matter.  I know there are organic liquid pasteurized whites, but other than Abbotsford Farms brand, I don't know that the liquid yolks are organic.

 

What's the application (a product with no cooking) and who is the governing authority (are you doing mail order?) that you need to satisfy?

[pastrygirl]

For sous vide, you may need a HACCP plan, spelling out all the precautions and steps taken to make sure you get safe pasteurized eggs and not something else.  I've never done one, but if you know any chefs who do sous vide and have one, maybe they would share.

 

Can you instead include a warning?  Here, almost all restaurant menus have a disclaimer along the lines of "the state of WA has determined that raw or un-dercooked ingredients may be hazardous to your health".  That way, they can serve runny eggs and steak tartare and the customer has been warned.

 

Bombe is like Italian meringue but with yolks?  Are you able to measure the temp of the mix?  See how hot it is the next few times you make it.  I make Italian meringue buttercream with fresh whites all the time and don't worry about it, I'll have to check the temp next time.

 

As for buying a thermomix - I know, it is so tempting to buy a lot of toys and consider them business expenses.  But that $1800 expense is not just the value of cake you have to sell, it comes out of the profit, so you have to sell at least double that much cake just to pay for it.  Could you use it for multiple products or components?  It does seem sort of magic and like it saves some active time.   What is the capacity?  Is it big enough for when you're really busy and doing double, triple, quadruple batches?  I think if it's big enough, versatile, and gives you control over pasteurization it could be worth it.

 

I recently had an inspection by the FDA.  Aside from the usual cleanliness and good practices, they seemed mostly concerned with potential allergens and cross contamination.  You need to either list all the sub-ingredients like white chocolate (cocoa butter, sugar, milk powder, vanilla) or put a "Contains milk" statement somewhere on there.  Many manufacturers add a bit about made in a facility that also processes tree nuts, peanuts, etc.  My understanding is spelling out the allergens is required, but  best by dates and shared equipment statements are optional but helpful to inform the buyer and protect the maker. 

 

 

 

 

[paulraphael]

I don't believe you need any kind of special permit for an immersion circulator. The big kerfuffle over sous vide in NYC years ago led to a rule that you needed to file a HACCP plan if you had a chamber vacuum machine in your restaurant. That was the machine that freaked out the (under-educated) health dept. officials. But the circulator's fine, unless the rules have changed in recent years. 

 

Pastrygirl's question may come up—will the health dept. accept that your eggs are actually pasteurized? They should—they're fine with things getting pasteurized through conventional cooking methods. But I wouldn't count on them being rational. 

 

FWIW, I got my NYC health dept. food protection certificate in 2008, and there was no mention of sous-vide anything in the study materials or in the test. 

[Franci]

Thanks, guys you had me thinking of a lot of aspects I didn't even take in consideration!

 

[pastrygirl]

14 hours ago, paulraphael said:

I don't believe you need any kind of special permit for an immersion circulator. The big kerfuffle over sous vide in NYC years ago led to a rule that you needed to file a HACCP plan if you had a chamber vacuum machine in your restaurant. That was the machine that freaked out the (under-educated) health dept. officials. But the circulator's fine, unless the rules have changed in recent years. 

 

 ... But I wouldn't count on them being rational.

 

I'm getting my own kitchen permit renewed and yes, in my county it's the chamber vac "reduced oxygen packaging" use that needs the HACCP plan.  And inspectors don't know everything about everything so you may need to do some educating or explanation.  I suppose if you weren't vacuum packing (just ziplock-ing) and using the yolks immediately after pasteurization, you might not need the HACCP plan.

[Yoda]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:44 AM, pastrygirl said:

Bombe is like Italian meringue but with yolks?  Are you able to measure the temp of the mix?  See how hot it is the next few times you make it.  I make Italian meringue buttercream with fresh whites all the time and don't worry about it, I'll have to check the temp next time.

@pastrygirl, have you ever gotten into checking the temperature of the meringue or PAB?

 

What IS the safe temperature you have to reach to get the eggs pasteurized in a matter of seconds (and not cooking them)?

 

Is creme anglaise a pasteurized product  (by reaching 82°C)?

 

Is there a good book or some other resource on food safety regarding temperatures and water content, etc. (preferably with graphs) anyone would recommend? 

Edited May 28 by Yoda
Spelling (log)

[pastrygirl]

I've since switched to Swiss meringue for my buttercream, heating the whites and sugar over simmering water until +/- 160F

 

Yes, your creme anglaise is pasteurized at 82C

 

here's a chart for dairy products:  https://www.idfa.org/pasteurization

 

these topics have charts for eggs: 

 

Don't know about pasteurizing without cooking.  I recently renewed my food handler's permit and I swear they said eggs only have to be cooked to 145F, which quite surprised me.  But unless you're in King County, WA, defer to your own local authority.

 

Edited May 28 by pastrygirl (log)

[paulraphael]

From food science sources (incl. Modernist Cuisine):

 

Standard method: 55°C / 131°F x 2 hours 
Fast method: : 57°C / 135° F  x 75 minutes (appearance not as good but otherwise ok)
(pasteurized whites may be more difficult to whip but eggs are otherwise unchanged)