Impulse Sealers

[Jim D.]

There have been some mentions of these sealers (which simply seal a plastic bag without vacuuming any air out) in other threads, but I was unable to find opinions that focused on these machines. I make filled chocolates. In order to freeze them for future use, I first tried my Weston 2300 vac sealer but quickly learned that chocolates cannot withstand that pressure, and when they are in a box, the Weston crushes the box. I used the Weston as a sealing-only machine, but it's not very good at that--you have to place the bag exactly in the right spot to keep the vacuum pump from activating and that is very difficult to do consistently. Therefore I am exploring impulse sealers. These simple machines look like the best I can do. They don't get rid of whatever air is in the bag, but they prevent additional air from entering and therefore keep out odors and--worst of all for chocolate--moisture.

 

My first question is whether I should just go with the fairly inexpensive machines (what looks like the standard model is around $150 for the 16" long sealing area I need) or with the Vacmaster (about $400). The latter seems like overkill (in price, in weight, and in storage area required), but it has a 5mm wide seal, which gives a much more secure seal for freezer use than the others, with their 2mm seal. A failure of the seal, and the chocolates would be covered with freezer "snow."

 

My second question is about what bags to get. From what I have read, a 3-mil bag would be best for freezer use. Polypropylene sounds like the material I want--it is good at providing a moisture barrier--but does not seem to come in the bag sizes I need. The Weston bags are quite sturdy, but I'm not sure they can be used in a regular impulse sealer (they might exceed the thickness these sealers can handle or the quilted side might present problems) and would be rather expensive to use in the long run. Perhaps sous vide bags are the answer, but I am not familiar with them at all.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[daveb]

Your requirement for a 16" seal is going to limit your choice considerably.   If your product is 16 x 12 or 16 x 8 is there a way you can seal along the smaller dimension?

 

My Cabela's sealer (Weston rebrand) is very easy to use in manual mode and start sealing without suction.  My chamber sealer is also pretty straightforward.

 

Suggest you contact the folks at vacuum sealers unlimited  about both your sealer and bag requirements.

[Jim D.]

Thanks for the reply and for the suggestion about Vacuum Sealers Unlimited.  I've learned that the chocolates freeze better already in their boxes, and my largest box size is 10 x 10 (and they are 1 1/2" tall), so 13" is about the minimum width for bag.

[pastrygirl]

So your vacuum machine can only do 100%?  Can you stop it before its finished or adjust the settings?  We have  a vac machine in the kitchen - savory chefs have done  a lot of sous vide - and I was debating trying to pack some chocolates to freeze, guess I'll have to play with pressure.  I used to vac dried fruit and frozen things at 50% so they wouldn't stick together, i think that should be safe for chocolate but haven't tried.  The machine is totally adjustable, or one can just hit stop somewhere on the way to 100% vacuum and it'll seal and release pressure.

 

For the impulse sealer, I would get the cheapest one that fits your bags, and might as well get a few replacement wires while you're at it, they break.

 

One other option I'd consider is large ziploc-style bags.  I use the gallon sized freezer bags to store boxes of truffles and caramels, with a tiny bit of stretching I can fit 16 2-1/8" cubes (so a block of boxes 2-1/8 x 8-1/2 x 8-1/2").  The bags measure about 10-1/2" square, so maybe too small for you but if you can find 2 gallon ziplocs, they would work.  The regular weight don't stretch well, they tend to tear

 

I'm never sure about bag materials and which is which.  The sous vide bags at the restaurant are very thick and probably not inexpensive.  I've sealed a few different types of flimsier bags on my little heat sealer, you just have to adjust the duration or some will melt all the way through.  And you can always do it twice if you want a really good seal, it only takes a few seconds. 

 

Good luck!  And thanks for the reminder that I should be in the kitchen working on Christmas instead of home drinking coffee and acting like its a day off!

[gfweb]

4 hours ago, daveb said:

Your requirement for a 16" seal is going to limit your choice considerably.   If your product is 16 x 12 or 16 x 8 is there a way you can seal along the smaller dimension?

 

My Cabela's sealer (Weston rebrand) is very easy to use in manual mode and start sealing without suction.  My chamber sealer is also pretty straightforward.

 

Suggest you contact the folks at vacuum sealers unlimited  about both your sealer and bag requirements.

I have the same model. A good buy. It will seal without vacuum very nicely.

[Jim D.]

I have found the Weston to be a great vacuum sealer. I had a steak a few days ago that looked and tasted fresh after several months in the freezer.  But I have not found that the Weston seals "very nicely" at all when used on manual.  Sometimes it works the way it is supposed to.  Other times (too many to make it dependable) I place the bag slightly over the teflon tape but not too far into the chamber, the machine starts the process, I press the button for manual, it runs for a while, then there is a pop sound rather than the whoosh it should make, and often there is a burning smell (the teflon tape had burnt spots until I replaced it this morning).  I spoke at length with a Weston engineer last week, and many people have had problems with using the sealer on manual, so many that there are instructions on how to disconnect the vacuum sensor/timer and make it totally and always manual. He was willing to guide me through the process, but I quickly said no when he said that if you are using the Weston as a vacuum sealer and misjudge whether the vacuum is sufficient or not, letting it run too long, you risk burning out some part (don't remember the details because at that point I thought, no thanks).

 

Pastrygirl, yes, the Weston has a manual setting (as I described), but it does not have variable vacuum strength--you can't select 25%, for instance. There is a new model (and isn't there always a new model just after a purchase?) that can do that, and I think FoodSaver has machines that have the feature. Since you and I are concerned in particular about chocolates, I should report that my freezing method does not appear to be perfect. When the chocolates are in their final destination box and are sealed (no vacuum) in a bag, then refrigerated, then frozen, then back to the fridge, then to room temp (as the experts say to do), they are fine--or at least they are so far. But I had frozen a tray of individual pieces and needed some of them, and when I removed the tray from the freezer and opened the bag, condensation formed immediately on some of the chocolates. In Peter Greweling's chocolates book, he says to put the chocolates in a box and use a "gentle" vacuum, but when I tried that with the Weston, the box was crushed (along with its contents).

[gfweb]

38 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I have found the Weston to be a great vacuum sealer. I had a steak a few days ago that looked and tasted fresh after several months in the freezer.  But I have not found that the Weston seals "very nicely" at all when used on manual.  Sometimes it works the way it is supposed to.  Other times (too many to make it dependable) I place the bag slightly over the teflon tape but not too far into the chamber, the machine starts the process, I press the button for manual, it runs for a while, then there is a pop sound rather than the whoosh it should make, and often there is a burning smell (the teflon tape had burnt spots until I replaced it this morning).  I spoke at length with a Weston engineer last week, and many people have had problems with using the sealer on manual, so many that there are instructions on how to disconnect the vacuum sensor/timer and make it totally and always manual. He was willing to guide me through the process, but I quickly said no when he said that if you are using the Weston as a vacuum sealer and misjudge whether the vacuum is sufficient or not, letting it run too long, you risk burning out some part (don't remember the details because at that point I thought, no thanks).

 

Pastrygirl, yes, the Weston has a manual setting (as I described), but it does not have variable vacuum strength--you can't select 25%, for instance. There is a new model (and isn't there always a new model just after a purchase?) that can do that, and I think FoodSaver has machines that have the feature. Since you and I are concerned in particular about chocolates, I should report that my freezing method does not appear to be perfect. When the chocolates are in their final destination box and are sealed (no vacuum) in a bag, then refrigerated, then frozen, then back to the fridge, then to room temp (as the experts say to do), they are fine--or at least they are so far. But I had frozen a tray of individual pieces and needed some of them, and when I removed the tray from the freezer and opened the bag, condensation formed immediately on some of the chocolates. In Peter Greweling's chocolates book, he says to put the chocolates in a box and use a "gentle" vacuum, but when I tried that with the Weston, the box was crushed (along with its contents).

 

My Cabela's unit has a seal without vacuum option. I never heard wooshes or pops.

 

Wouldn't condensation form on anything cold that is exposed to room air?

Edited October 24, 2016 by gfweb (log)

[Jim D.]

21 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Wouldn't condensation form on anything cold that is exposed to room air?

I think the theory of the method I described earlier is that if the chocolates are airtight, then the condensation forms on the outside of the bag and the ill effects are mitigated by moving them gradually from freezer to fridge to room temp. I have had several successes with the method and the chocolates show no ill effects. I think the problem today may have been moving them from freezer directly to room temp (so that I could remove a few) . But I'm just in the learning process and am certainly not an expert.

[pastrygirl]

4 hours ago, gfweb said:

Wouldn't condensation form on anything cold that is exposed to room air?

 

 

4 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 I think the problem today may have been moving them from freezer directly to room temp (so that I could remove a few) .

 

yes and yes

[Jim D.]

27 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

 

yes and yes

 

But do you think the theory is correct that sealed items moved from freezer to fridge then to room temp should be OK? If not, how do we ever freeze chocolates safely?

[pastrygirl]

1 minute ago, Jim D. said:

 

But do you think the theory is correct that sealed items moved from freezer to fridge then to room temp should be OK? If not, how do we ever freeze chocolates safely?

 

Yes, taking the time to do it right has worked for me, rushing results in condensation.  It's the sudden, dramatic change in temperature. The air that hits the frozen bonbon is cooled and can't hold as much water, so condensation forms on the surface.  When you're moving from 0F to 40F to 65F you don't have the huge temperature difference of going directly from 0 to 65. 

 

It sucks though, because we don't always want to wait 2 days to fill orders.  I'll admit to having sold some items that weren't appropriately thawed.  It's not ideal.

 

Your retail boxes are 10" x 10"?  Have you considered a smaller box?

[gfweb]

Whether condensation forms depends on the temp of the candy and the temp of the air and the relative humidity. ideally you'd warm the candy to near room temp before opening the seal.

[Jim D.]

The size of the boxes is a sore subject:  I went through what seemed like hell to have those boxes made. It revolved around the available sizes of trays. I know that sounds insane, but the cost of having specially made trays is in the thousands of dollars, so I went with having boxes made that fit the trays. To get into entirely too much detail-- it all comes down to the fact that the stock boxes I was using became unavailable because the labor strike on the U.S. west coast made Chinese boxes impossible to obtain for nearly a year.

 

I know what you mean about waiting 2 days. I am going through all of this because a local store wants to sell my chocolates and the only place they (it's a florist) have to store them is the flower fridge. So I will supply the chocolates in sealed plastic bags. But I will need the 2 days to move them from my freezer. I know this is all a risk, but actually one year when I had emergency surgery just before Easter, I stored chocolates in sealed plastic bags in a refrigerator for several weeks with no discernible ill effect. I am glad to hear that you think a gradual change in temp works. I have experimented with a frozen box (just as I will supply to the florist), moved it to the fridge, then to room temp. I ate one tonight, and no sugar bloom or any other ill effects. And yes, I do realize that, with my last sentence, I am daring the chocolate gods to do their worst. At least I did have the experience today, for the first time, of seeing sugar bloom--with the chocs moved directly from freeze to room temp.

[Jim D.]

2 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Whether condensation forms depends on the temp of the candy and the temp of the air and the relative humidity. ideally you'd warm the candy to near room temp before opening the seal.

 

Yes, that is exactly the plan. Today I had to rush the transition, and I paid the price. A learning experience, as they say.

[Shalmanese]

Wouldn't adding a silica gel pack when you seal fix condensation problems?

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, Shalmanese said:

Wouldn't adding a silica gel pack when you seal fix condensation problems?

I have been thinking exactly the same thing. I'll have to start looking for a place to get food-safe ones (if there is a difference). I wouldn't expect it to solve the problem totally, but it certainly could not hurt (actually it's recommended by chocolate expert Peter Greweling). Thanks for the idea.

[pastrygirl]

21 hours ago, Jim D. said:

The size of the boxes is a sore subject:  I went through what seemed like hell to have those boxes made. It revolved around the available sizes of trays. I know that sounds insane, but the cost of having specially made trays is in the thousands of dollars, so I went with having boxes made that fit the trays.

 

Over in the confections thread, it looks like there is a lot of space around the pieces in the trays.  Do they not get scratched and scuffed rattling around?  I just bought some 9 piece boxes with trays from Paper Mart to use for the holidays.  They're 5-1/2" square, haven't actually filled one with bonbons yet but I though they looked decent for the price.  http://www.papermart.com/set-up-view-top-gold-candy-p-e-t-box-with-inserts/id=38551#38551

Of course Chocolat-chocolat and Nashville Wraps have some much swankier paper boxes with inserts but I don't wanna pay $2+ per box. 

 

I feel your pain on the custom packaging, I have a couple of things I'd like to do differently but it's hard to swallow the expense of doing it all over again.  And mine was designed around stock packaging so I don't think you're crazy But in the big picture, I'll probably be happier if I push forward on it.  

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

Over in the confections thread, it looks like there is a lot of space around the pieces in the trays.  Do they not get scratched and scuffed rattling around? 

Thanks a lot for increasing my paranoia!  So far they have traveled to the West Coast, to Maine, and to Texas without any damage. Believe me, I have researched every tray made for confections. The problem was that the cavities were not big enough for some of my products (I have some molds on the large side and a typical tray cavity size is 1" or even smaller--not nearly large enough), so I had to select trays that would work and then get the boxes. My tray holding 30 pieces looks the best (snug fit for chocolates), but the cavities are not large enough for several items and the chocolates have to be propped up against the sides. So I did the best I could without paying the "die fees" for a new size of tray--as I said before, thousands of dollars.  If you ever want to get custom boxes, I have tons of information and several places that do good work at reasonable prices--as well as several to avoid at all costs.

 

And returning to scratching and scuffing:  The tray cavities have soft sides. The biggest danger is the up-and-down movement, and I put in extra pads beneath the lid to minimize that. As I said, so far there have been no issues.

[pastrygirl]

One more thought  - would just the trays without the boxes fit in gallon ziplocks?  Might need cardboard or a candy pad to stiffen, and if the trays are shallow you may be able to fit two. 

 

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

One more thought  - would just the trays without the boxes fit in gallon ziplocks?  Might need cardboard or a candy pad to stiffen, and if the trays are shallow you may be able to fit two. 

 

A definite possibility. My new impulse sealer arrives today and the bags (3 mil thick, recommended for freezing) are on their way, so I'll be experimenting.  When I froze the individual chocolates, I put them on quarter-sheet pans, wrapped them in plastic wrap, then into bag. 

[Alex]

I read the title of this topic and thought it was going to be about a new software program, one that automatically initiates a one-time "sealing off" of a website for 24 hours when it detects a click of the "Buy" button for a cookbook or kitchen item, thereby giving the user time to reflect of the wisdom of the purchase. Darn. I could use a program like that.

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I read the title of this topic and thought it was going to be about a new software program, one that automatically initiates a one-time "sealing off" of a website for 24 hours when it detects a click of the "Buy" button for a cookbook or kitchen item, thereby giving the user time to reflect of the wisdom of the purchase. Darn. I could use a program like that.

Who knows, you may inspire a young entrepreneur out there to write a new app: WebImpulseSealer or perhaps a more inventive name. Should be wildly popular with eGullet members facing their annual clean-out-the-kitchen-junk struggle.