Workarounds for suboptimal ice

[Hassouni]

So I just got a  whisky-and-beer bar owner's approval to do a pop up cocktail bar at his place. They have an ice machine in their basement that puts out typical, hotel ice machine ice, or that which might be found at the 7-11 soda fountain. Obviously this is not great for cocktails.  Short of asking for Kold Draft, or freezing hundreds of Tovolo silicone trays, what can I do?

 

One option is to buy shitloads of quality bagged ice (it exists) and stick it in a few large igloo coolers. It's an extra expense but it might be worth it.

 

Any other recommendations?

[Chris Hennes]

If I recall correctly the real problem with poor ice is that it's wet. I think I recall reading about someone spinning it in a salad spinner before using it, but I've never tried that myself.

[Hassouni]

Yeah, wetness (and therefore the temperature of it, also) are the big issues. A salad spinner might work, but that seems like it's more suited for home use. I can't see doing that in a commercial setting.

 

Perhaps dumping the machine ice into a cooler with some dry ice in it?

[Chris Hennes]

I'd be concerned about it freezing into one big block if you just tried to chill the wet ice down.

[Hassouni]

Also that....

[Dave the Cook]

In addition to its wetness, crappy ice often includes small pieces that melt more quickly when stirred or shaken, leading to an overly diluted product. I think your best bet is a decent cooler with a perforated hotel pan to hold the ice and let it drain. Large holes will let you shake the little chunks out and at the same time bring the bigger pieces to the top (I forget what that principle is called, but it applies, in my experience).

[Hassouni]

Hm, that's actually a decent idea, I'll see if I can get one that fits (or a pair, or whatever).

 

What about getting the ice colder? Would dry ice below the hotel pans do anything, or would it be more trouble than it's worth?

[Fernwood]

Hm, that's actually a decent idea, I'll see if I can get one that fits (or a pair, or whatever).

 

What about getting the ice colder? Would dry ice below the hotel pans do anything, or would it be more trouble than it's worth?

 

I can't think how you can chill it below the melting/freezing point without wet pieces freezing together.  Unless you can spread them out on large, non-stick trays... is there a giant freezer available?

[Plantes Vertes]

Depends on money and space and stuff, but perhaps it would be worth looking for an insulated cold-plate ice bin on ebay or somewhere. That would have a drainage hole and at least stop the ice melting too quickly.

 

ETA Also, very exciting! Congratulations.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Plantes Vertes (log)

[Shalmanese]

Get a chinese noodle strainer thing. They're designed to shake water off of noodles and they should work for ice as well.

[Chris Amirault]

What Dave said. 

 

I'd also consider that bulk quality bagged ice is a good option if you have access to a freezer. You might consider that ice as a loss leader: as we all know here, ice is a key ingredient, and broken, wet ice will make lousy drinks....

 

Finally, don't forget -- or, read carefully if you haven't -- Dave Arnold's definitive series on cocktails at Cooking Issues. Here's the relevant post; the takeaway is that if you shake hard with a full tin of reasonably dry ice for ten seconds or so then fine strain, you're probably gonna be ok. 

[Adam George]

Use a salad spinner to shake off excess water and then shake or stir less.  The unwanted dilution is going to come from surface water, not the surface area of the ice, providing you adapt you technique.

You're going to far too much effort, bringing in your own ice or trying to cool down the shitty stuff.  Remember, all bar ice is 0C when it's in the well; Kold Draft or not.  

 

Read Dave Arnold's article on using crushed ice for better proof of this concept.

 

Oh and this:

 

 

"I brought my own ice"

[Chris Amirault]

Ha! That's it! Ask the customers to bring their own ice. Problem solved! 

[Hassouni]

Use a salad spinner to shake off excess water and then shake or stir less.  The unwanted dilution is going to come from surface water, not the surface area of the ice, providing you adapt you technique.

You're going to far too much effort, bringing in your own ice or trying to cool down the shitty stuff.  Remember, all bar ice is 0C when it's in the well; Kold Draft or not.  

 

Read Dave Arnold's article on using crushed ice for better proof of this concept.

 

Oh and this:

 

 

"I brought my own ice"

 

Ahahahaha, great video - but as a former suburbanite, I will defend my perfectly made mojito to the death!

[cdh]

Friendly with any bars with a Kold Draft machine?   Hit them up and fill coolers with KD.

[Hassouni]

No, but as unbelievable as it sounds, the bagged ice from the Whole Foods round the corner from me is pretty solid stuff, legit hard cubes. If I'm bringing in ice, that'll do more than fine.

 

Also, the hotel pan thing sounds like the easiest way

Edited May 8, 2014 by Hassouni (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I confess I am not one to hang out in bars, but the idea of 0 deg C ice leaves me less than cold.  My freezer goes down pretty low.  I believe the exact temperature measured with my Agilent is burried somewhere in the ice cream thread...but after half a mai tai I am not about to go looking for it.

 

Diluted drinks I do not like.  I believe high quality baggged ice is your best solution.  If you try to freeze wet ice it will just become a solid chunk.  I like my ice cold.  I'm thinking of getting a scientific grade freezer that will go lower.  When I was in grad school we had a freezer that was set to -80 C.

 

Let me add my congratulations, by the way.

[Hassouni]

Thank you!

[Chris Hennes]

Having ice below freezing is less effective at cooling your drink than you would think, since the vast majority of the cooling action is coming from the phase change, not increasing the ice's temperature. This is not to say it won't have an effect, but the main benefit is from keeping the ice drier, not in more effective cooling of the drink.

[dcarch]

"----Having ice below freezing is less effective at cooling your drink than you would think---"

 

An 1" x 1" x 1" ice cube, one degree C cooler will only give you about 1/1700 BTU of cooling.

 

The temperature of the glass, the stirrer, the shaker, etc. Have more impact than the ice cube.

 

dcarch

[Hassouni]

It's not so much the temperature or the size that bothers me, it's the wetness

[Rafa]

Why are we not doing phrasing? 

[Plantes Vertes]

How did this go Hassouni?

[Hassouni]

Will update later, on phone w dying battery now, but the ice was not as bad as anticipated

[Hassouni]

So - it went pretty well. Got quite busy on Friday, which made me REALLY want running water within arms reach, but oh well. The ice started out pretty well in terms of being cold and dry, but as the hours went on there was a fair amount of melting in the cooler, probably from it being opened so often and starting out fairly warm to begin with. At the start, I had a few mm of clearance in the glass when pouring each drink, but by the end I had to shake for less time otherwise it'd come dangerously close to overflowing from dilution.