Cooking Thai with ingredients available in Europe

[Mibr01ac]

Hi all,

I'm a big fan of the thai kitchen. Its in general super tasty, fast to cook, relatively cheap and low fat. I'm also a big fan of using local products when cooking. How can I combine the thai cuisine with local products? Does anyone know a cookbook that has addressed the question above.

Appriciate your view on this. Thank you.

Geographically I'm based in UK/Denmark.

Michael

[Plantes Vertes]

Hi Michael! Of course, the flora and fauna of Thailand do not much resemble those of northern Europe. You will struggle to source Thai fruits and vegetables that are not imported and I believe that it will be hard to achieve a recognisable Thai flavour without such ingredients as coconut, lime, tamarind, mango, papaya, soy, kaffir lime, taro, ginger, sweet potato, bamboo shoots, pea aubergines, galangal, turmeric, pandan and many others that are not native to this part of the world, not to mention rice and noodles and numerous species of fish. I think that Thai cuisine cooked in Europe will always rely quite heavily on shipping.

However, you could certainly have good success increasing the proportion of local produce by growing your own herbs and vegetables; coriander, spring onion, Thai basil, garlic, chillis (indoors), mint, pumpkin, cabbage, mustard greens, and cucumber come to mind. You could also use domestic chicken, pork and beef, and local seafood such as prawns, mussels, cockles, eel, mackerel and crabs.

I look forward to seeing your results.

[Hassouni]

I don't know where you are in the UK, but in London, one of the shops in Chinatown (on the north side of Gerard Street) has a pretty decent Thai selection, and there is a dedicated Thai grocery in Shepherd's bush. I used to cook Thai food every other night when I lived in London, so it's easily accomplished there. Not sure where you might be though...If you're close enough to London you could at least make an occasional trip to get durable goods - fish sauce; kaffir lime leaves, galangal, and thai chiles to freeze; coconut milk; palm sugar; curry pastes, etc. As for the vegetables, as long as you've got that base of garlic, fish sauce, chiles, limes, etc, anything you make will have a "Thai flavor"

[Plantes Vertes]

Ah, I think perhaps I misunderstood the post - sorry! - I thought it related to making Thai food with European ingredients (ie grown/reared in Europe), rather than Thai ingredients available in Europe (ie transported to Europe). Of course you can obtain Thai ingredients easily in any UK town of any size.

[Ader1]

I worked for a few days in a pub offering Thai food and the Thai cooks were using vegetable which were mostly grown in the UK. This was a pub in London and some of the ingredients were bought in China town because it wasn't far away. I think that the reason that they used mostly UK veggies was because they were a lot cheaper. I have a friend who is a Thai chef in Canada and for example she would use broccoli instead in her Green Curries; in Thailand they would just use pea aubergines and/or apple aubergines. The ones in London used the longer type aubergines more prevalent in Europe. They also put in other veggies like cauliflower, and carrots. But yes, you'll have to get most of the pastes from an Asian shop and if there isn't one near you, then there are on-line Thai/Asian shops. I think that in most places, what is offered, is to a degree a kind of fusion cooking.

[Hassouni]

The shops in Chinatown, for what it's worth, have most of the typical thai veg, like the small round aubergines, water spinach, some of them even have holy basil

[Ader1]

Yes Hassouni.....I could also get Thai sweet basil and Holy basil from my on-line shop. The trouble was, that Thai sweet basil is impossible to freeze. I've tried it. It turns black. I'm not sure about the Holy basil. I have though managed to grow both in the UK summer in the conservatory. I think you do need that distinctive flavour of Thai sweet basil in a Green curry. I'm not so sure about the Holy basil in for example a Pad krapow moo....I know it has the Krapow ie Holy basil name in it's title but I've had it without and it was still fantastic. Can you freeze Holy basil without it turning a dark colour?

[Hassouni]

Yes Hassouni.....I could also get Thai sweet basil and Holy basil from my on-line shop. The trouble was, that Thai sweet basil is impossible to freeze. I've tried it. It turns black. I'm not sure about the Holy basil. I have though managed to grow both in the UK summer in the conservatory. I think you do need that distinctive flavour of Thai sweet basil in a Green curry. I'm not so sure about the Holy basil in for example a Pad krapow moo....I know it has the Krapow ie Holy basil name in it's title but I've had it without and it was still fantastic. Can you freeze Holy basil without it turning a dark colour?

In my experience, Thai sweet basil (bai horapa) is much more easily substituted with Mediterranean basil than holy basil (bai kaprao) is with ANYTHING. Pad kaprao must have holy basil, but overall horapa is used in more dishes, from what I remember from my days cooking Thai frequently.

Holy basil also goes off FAST - you can't even keep it for more than 2 days without it deteriorating. By 3-4 days it's unusable. I don't know if you can freeze it, but since it's almost always cooked, it might not matter if it turns a dark colour. You might be able to pack a jar of it with some neutral oil and freeze it; alternatively, one can buy chile pastes with holy basil, meant as an "instant pad kaprao" paste. I've never tried it, though, and I only make pad kaprao when I can find the basil in question.

Another idea might be to put the basil in a vase with water to make it last a bit longer.

[patrickamory]

Agree with Hassouni, there is no more difficult ingredient to keep than Thai holy basil. It has a very specific taste, it keeps for no longer than a day (48 hours max), is generally hard to find and hard to grow.

Thai basil lasts much longer, and in a pinch you can substitute a combination of Mediterranean sweet basil and mint leaves.

Regarding the other ingredients, one of the most important is coriander (cilantro) roots. If you find bunches of coriander with the roots intact, and you have no immediate use for the roots, sever them and freeze them. They'll last forever. Key ingredient.

[patrickamory]

Also watch out for unscrupulous or uneducated retailers selling Thai basil as holy basil. Kalustyan's in NYC (generally an excellent, if expensive, source, for Asian ingredients of all sorts) is a serial offender in this regard.

Thai basil has big green leaves with a pinkish/purplish tint on the stems, and is very fragrant uncooked, with a minty aroma not dissimilar to Italian basil... less the resin-y aspects. It is bushy and robust and lasts for a long time in the fridge.

Holy basil has small green leaves and very little fragrance until cooked, after which it yields an idiosyncratic, spicy, pepperminty taste that is not similar to anything else. You'll know when you have holy basil. It is not used as a garnish, like Thai basil, but rather as a stir-fry ingredient (even if only at the end of the preparation). It does not last long at all and is extremely fragile. One of the greatest things known to man, in my opinion!

[Hassouni]

Also watch out for unscrupulous or uneducated retailers selling Thai basil as holy basil. Kalustyan's in NYC (generally an excellent, if expensive, source, for Asian ingredients of all sorts) is a serial offender in this regard.

Thai basil has big green leaves with a pinkish/purplish tint on the stems, and is very fragrant uncooked, with a minty aroma not dissimilar to Italian basil... less the resin-y aspects. It is bushy and robust and lasts for a long time in the fridge.

Holy basil has small green leaves and very little fragrance until cooked, after which it yields an idiosyncratic, spicy, pepperminty taste that is not similar to anything else. You'll know when you have holy basil. It is not used as a garnish, like Thai basil, but rather as a stir-fry ingredient (even if only at the end of the preparation). It does not last long at all and is extremely fragile. One of the greatest things known to man, in my opinion!

Also, Holy basil has a sort of "fuzziness" to it that regular Thai basil (bai horapa) has not. That's the easiest way for me to tell.

[Ader1]

I get the feeling that you two are fans of Holy basil then?

[Hassouni]

Oh yeah! But I haven't found it in a while. The only Thai shop in the area only gets it on certain days, and when they do, it sells out VERY quickly

[Ader1]

But I'm telling you Hassouni, I've had it without and it was still fantastic. I'll have to try and get that instant pad krapao paste though.

[Ader1]

Look at these:

http://shop.waiyeehong.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=0&keyword=Chilli+Paste+With+Holy+Basil+Leaves

http://shop.waiyeehong.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=0&keyword=Holy+Basil+Seasoning+Paste

And this one I cannot quite make out what he's or she is doing:

[Hassouni]

I mean, at its most basic, it's just garlic, shallots, chiles, sugar, and fish sauce + holy basil. Without the basil it's just a generic Thai-style stir-fry, which I'll admit is tasty enough in its own right.