Chinese Eats at Home (Part 2)

[Gastro888]

AUGH! No pics from last night's dinner. Actually it wasn't as great as I hoped it would be. It was "good" and edible but I was missing that deep, rich black bean sauce flavor and I don't know what I did wrong. I made my beef and bitter melon in black bean sauce in the following manner:

-Washed, cored, sliced the bitter melon into 1/2 circles about 1/4" thick

-Blanched for 10 minutes until tender in salted water & drained

-Sliced the hanger steak into 1" wide & 1/8" thick slices

-Marinated steak in: dark soy, Shao Xing, white pepper, a pinch of 5 spice, mushroom soy & sesame oil (normally I don't really do much to the steak but last night I wanted to try something)

-Made the black bean & garlic mash

-Fired up the wok, added the oil when hot then added the black bean and garlic mash, chowed for a minute

-Added the beef, let it sit for a minute to sear then chowed until 3/4 of the way done

-Added the bitter melon, chowed for a few minutes

-Added chicken stock, waited for it to boil & then added a cornstarch slurry

It was good but not oh wow great. What went wrong? Maybe not enough black bean and garlic mash (I used about 2 TBsp worth)? Maybe I should've left the steak plain? Arugh!

Oh and the bitter melon was a bit bleah. I need to grow my own.

(IT WASN'T LIKE MY MOM'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Tepee]

Don't be so hard on yourself. Your standards are probably too high.

Hmm...what I do different is soak the bitter melon in salt water before cooking. Rinse.Then let it cook till soft together with the steak and sauce, covered for around 8 mins, and a bit with the cover taken off.

[Gastro888]

Well, of course my standards are high for food. I'm Toisanese.

It's just that my gravy was very thin and didn't have that rich, clingy, coat your rice with black bean sauce goodness to it. It was well-received but it wasn't like mom's. I think maybe I shouldn't use Shao Xing?

[aznsailorboi]

Gastro Jieh what you can do is omit the dark soy sauce and mushroom soy sauce, instead, up the amount of mashed black beans and a tablespoon or two of oyster sauce and include it in the marinade for the beef as well. this also helps in keeping the sauce not too dark.

HI INGA from Brandon!!! welcome to egullet chinese style!!! hehehe

i think its about time for bittermelon with beef and dau see. but that would put me in placing the same dish for the same thread twice....

Sheetz and anyone who can help. i tried looking all over chinatown yesterday afternoon for the Golden Syrup for the Lo Po Peng skins, but i cant find any( i mean literally i went down the length of wentworth ave. and the surrounding streets of chinatown in every grocery store)!!! and i swear, like a few months ago i pass by them in the grocery aisle and wouldnt give a time of day for it since i didnt know i was gonna have to need em!....TIL NOW i know the one i usually see is LION brand but all i see from that brand is "Custard Powder" i know thats not what im looking for. then i finally asked this lady from a mongkok store she said that golden syrup is Maltose, and of course i didnt believe her..i just said "oh ok thank you" then left..now im thinking maybe it is maltose? just labeled golden syrup, since we chinese people like to name things four or five different names depending on our dialect *scratches head aiyaa!* can anyone shed light in this confusion? thanks in advance...i really wanted to make them Lo Po Peng and another one is stuffed with pineapple preserved but shaped the same, although im gonna have to wing it with the pineapple and experiment some.

[aznsailorboi]

Well, of course my standards are high for food.  I'm Toisanese. 

It's just that my gravy was very thin and didn't have that rich, clingy, coat your rice with black bean sauce goodness to it.  It was well-received but it wasn't like mom's.  I think maybe I shouldn't use Shao Xing?

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keep the shao xing! it gives that distinct flavor of i dunno ......but trust me its there and it just blends in . if u leave it out then you will find another thing missing in the sauce.

[Gastro888]

There's golden syrup from Britain that's called Lyle's Golden Syrup. But I don't know if that's what we'd use considering maltose is a more common ingredient for Chinese cooking.

Thanks fot the tips, aznsaliorboi! I forgot about the oyster sauce! I think I'll do that next time. I used up all my fu-gwuah last night so I'll buy some more and try again. I've sushi on the menu tonight and pasta the next so no Chinese again until later in the week.

[Ben Hong]

Gastro-Mui, let me do a little long distance diagnosis here.

Knowing a bit of your parent's background, I would hazard a guess that your mother would cook like mine did and I do - stripped down to the essentials. Nothing wrong with your procedures, although if I do, I only blanch the bitter melon for about 2 minutes as I like a bit of crunch and bitterness.

I did not notice that you mentioned any quantities, but if you're only cooking one portion for yourself, I would use only a scant 1 Tbs of black bean/garlic mix. Even though the black beans is the main flavour, you still want the ting him of the meat to show through.

My mother, aunts and others would not normally use sesame oil, 5-spice, wine in this dish, as it is considered a humble everyday dish not a festive one. If you want that depth of flavour, add one scant pinch of mei ding OR 1/3 tsp. sugar, just before plating, add some sectioned green onions.

My essential ingredients for this dish would be (1 portion):

1 x 10 in. melon

4 oz. meat

1/2 tbs. mashed black bean, garlic and ginger.

Soy sauce,

Pinch of sugar OR msg.

Optionals are 4 drops of sesame oil and green onions both used at the very end.

Oh, and exercise liquid control...in the dish that is

Edited January 30, 2007 by Ben Hong (log)

[Gastro888]

Thanks, Ben Sook, I appreicate it! I'll readjust the seasonings and try again sometime next week.

I used almost 1 lb of hanger steak & (3) 10" bitter melons & Trader Joe's organic chicken stock. I think I might've used too much stock in hope of making lots and lots of gravy. I really like lots and lots of black bean sauce over my rice. It's the best part of this dish!

[Dejah]

Being of the "older generation", I too cook as Ben Sook - basic ingredients in this dish. To be honest, I very seldom use shiaoxing wine in my cooking. I will use it with fish, squid, but that's all. This is used to counteract any "sang mei" - fishiness. Otherwise, I don't care for the taste of the wine. Guess my cooking is just not elevated above "gah hing".

To marinate meat, I just use salt, pepper, msg, oil and cornstarch if I want to velvetize.

Oyster sauce?! 5-spice? These do not pair well with dow see. I even at the sesame oil although I love the stuff and may cave.

If you use a lot of stock, then you'd need to increase the amount of dow see for flavour. If the sauce is too runny, use a more concentrated slurry made with stock, not water.

For the bittermelon to really absorb the flavour, stir-fry the black beans WITH the melon rather than the meat. To me, it's the melon that should be flavoured.

[Gastro888]

I forgot to mention that I did use cornstarch on the marinade for the meat. Oops.

Thanks for the tips, Dejah-jeh! I'll try doing that with the melon next time. So was I right when I stir-fried the black bean and garlic mash first and then added rest of the ingredients?

[Seitch]

-Marinated steak in: dark soy, Shao Xing, white pepper, a pinch of 5 spice, mushroom soy & sesame oil (normally I don't really do much to the steak but last night I wanted to try something)

-Made the black bean & garlic mash

-Fired up the wok, added the oil when hot then added the black bean and garlic mash, chowed for a minute

(IT WASN'T LIKE MY MOM'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

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I would stick with just soy sauce and oyster sauce for the meat, maybe some white pepper like you had.

But I think the black bean paste would taste better with some ginger. Having only black beans and garlic is too one dimensional. Some mashed ginger will help and a little bit of sugar.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Seitch (log)

[Gastro888]

I've never had black bean sauce with ginger or sugar. Would that really work? In my household, we've never done that (to my knowledge). I usually use ginger in my fish/seafood dishes but not with beef. I'm not too crazy about ginger unless it's with fish/seafood or as ginger ale.

[Seitch]

I've never had black bean sauce with ginger or sugar.  Would that really work?  In my household, we've never done that (to my knowledge).  I usually use ginger in my fish/seafood dishes but not with beef.  I'm not too crazy about ginger unless it's with fish/seafood or as ginger ale.

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Black beans, ginger and garlic are the only way my family makes black bean sauce. The sugar used is not a lot. Maybe just a half teaspoon at most.

[Ben Hong]

Ginger, black beans and garlic comprise the Holy Trinity for this type of dish. Ginger is so much a part of it that some better packages of black beans have some bits of ginger in them.

Sugar is optional, but if you use it just add a hint of it. I do not like oyster sauce in a lot of dishes, as it clouds over and muddies up a lot of individual ingredient tastes. Oyster sauce has high sugar and msg. content. It is a shortcut... good or bad is up to you.

[Gastro888]

Really? I never knew. We probably didn't get ginger with black beans on our side of the mountain. Oops.

So what's the ratio of ginger to black beans and garlic in the mash? 1:1:1?

[Dejah]

I buy the black beans with the ginger in it, but I also add fresh ginger. I often add slivers of ginger to the meat to be chowed.

Oyster sauce doesn't complement the black bean garlic sauce. Added to meat, it will "mask" the natural flavour of beef, pork, or chicken, and muddle the flavour if they are to be part of a flavoured dish, as with black beans and fu gwa.

I DO enjoy oyster sauce - as a dip for simmered chicken, as a base for sauce for vegetables such as gai lan, or for sandpots with bland ingredients such as tofu. It's also great with ho fun - my kids' favourite.

With Chinese mushrooms, oyster sauce seems to complement its strong flavour. Or, is it good because all that sauce seeps down into the bland lettuce?

Now, I'm wondering as I write this: Is the tendency to use oyster sauce frequently or infrequently dictated by what we grow up with and how our elders cooked? I know Ah Leung favours it for marinades whereas I, and maybe Ben Sook, do not use it as often.

[Gastro888]

I don't use oyster sauce that often and my mom hardly ever does. It's there for certain Chinese mushroom dishes that she cooks and for choy but other than that, it's hardly ever touched. I used it the other night to cook some beef in oyster sauce but that's about it.

Now I gotta try cooking this dish with ginger. Ah Leung Goh, can you do a pictorial, please?

[sheetz]

Sheetz and anyone who can help. i tried looking all over chinatown yesterday afternoon for the Golden Syrup for the Lo Po Peng skins, but i cant find any

My guess is that you could just use corn syrup, but I'm pretty sure the recipe means something like Lyle's golden syrup. You can also make your own golden syrup using this recipe, which is what I did.

http://kuali.com/recipes/viewrecipe.asp?r=2379

[sheetz]

It's funny how everyone has their own recipe for black bean garlic sauce. For me, yes to shao xing wine, sugar, and sesame oil. Oyster sauce rarely, but not in marinades. 5 spice never .

Edited January 30, 2007 by sheetz (log)

[Gastro888]

The five spice was on the beef and it was just a "hey, it's there and why not" kind of addition. I wanted to try something new.

[hzrt8w]

Now I gotta try cooking this dish with ginger.  Ah Leung Goh, can you do a pictorial, please?

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There is already a pictorial for cooking with black bean sauce:

Stir-Fried Chicken and Asparagus with Black Bean Sauce (豉汁蘆筍炒鸡片)

The illustration uses asparagus. You can use bitter melon just fine.

What is this? Shall we change the title of this thread to "Educating Gastro"?

I also use grated ginger to mix with pressed garlic and smashed black beans to make a paste.

The difference, Gastro, is all in the process. Here is how I would have done it:

You already blanched the bitter melons, so I wouldn't return them to the wok until the last minute. I would advice you to "velvet" the beef though. When you put in the garlic/black-bean paste first and add raw beef slices in, the beef slices do not get browned. The taste would not be as good.

To marinate the beef, I wouldn't use five spice powder either. The basic light soy sauce and white pepper would be good. So here goes:

- Marinate the beef slices

- Blanch the bitter melon (I don't do this normally, but you can do it this way)

- Use a little bit of oil, velvet (brown) the beef slices to medium rare, remove.

- Use more oil, high heat, add garlic/black-bean/ginger paste, fry until fragrant. Add salt. Dash in 2 tsp of Shao Hsing wine. Stir.

- Add chicken broth. Bring to a boil. Add some dark soy sauce. Perhaps some water (or else may be too salty). Use corn starch slurry to thicken the sauce.

- Then return the bitton melon and beef slices. Stir fry for a minute or two. Done.

[Dejah]

Talk about differences in techniques! Poor Gastro Mui won't know how to make this by the time we all put in our 2 cents worth.

To me, you don't "velvet" the meat by browning. It's the marinating of the meat with seasonings, oil and cornstarch that results in the velvet texture once you chow the meat. You don't have to remove the meat at medium rare unless you like it medium rare.

I would blanch the bittermelon for a very few minutes - only because my husband doesn't really like his vegetables crisp. (Too much old style English cooking by the female relatives on HIS side!) The dow see ginger garlic paste is then stir-fried before I add the fu gwa. Remember, you want the melon to have the dow see flavour. Mix and stir-fry this a couple of minutes, then add stock. Let it simmer for a couple minutes ( I go by visual, so don't ask me how long!). Without thickening the liquid, remove the melon and the liquid.

Here, I differ from Ah Leung. My second step is the browning of the beef. Once I clean out the wok (all the bits are in the plate with the melon), I chow the meat in the hot oiled wok. Once the slices reach the degree of doness I want, I'd put the melon back in with some of the liquid. The cornstarch used to marinate the meat will thicken the sauce somewhat. If you want it thicker, then add a little more slurry.

If you want lots of sauce, take out the now thickened melon and meat, add the rest of the liquid held back, then thicken this and pour on top.

Sometimes, I will just thicken at the end the melon step, plate this, chow the beef, add a bit of stock to form a light sauce coating on the meat, and serve the meat just on top of the bittermelon or other vegtables.

Whew! Thank you for your patience, Ladies and Gentlemen. Dejah will now leave this post!

[hzrt8w]

To me, you don't "velvet" the meat by browning. It's the marinating of the meat with seasonings, oil and cornstarch that  results in the velvet texture once you chow the meat.  You don't have to remove the meat at medium rare unless you like it medium rare.

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I may be confused in the English terms. In Chinese (Cantones), we say "zhou yau" (running through hot oil). We use that technique for most of the dishes.

[sheetz]

LOL, I wonder if everyone has a different way of velvetizing meat, too!

[Gastro888]

Thanks for the tips, Ah Leung Goh and Dejah Jeh! It's very helpful.

We'll see how the next dish goes. I blanched the bitter melon cuz I like bitter things but not too too bitter.