Soylent (Food Replacement)

[mb7o]

Some guy (Rob Rhinehart) is experimenting with making his own 'food' out of base materials and micronutrients.

It's totally nerdy but kind of interesting--his claim is that it's far healthier than what he was eating, though it's also tuned for him. He almost never eats normal food, just when with friends.

He's been doing it for 3 months now, and just posted a 3 month retrospective on his blog--read down further for the earlier posts/motivation/etc.

http://robrhinehart.com/

What do people here think? I think it's totally intriguing if a bit over the top; note that he's not anti-normal-food, he's just going for an 'alternative'. One which has captivated people for a very long time.

[Syzygies]

This idea has been around forever!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

[mb7o]

That's the obvious reference, though I think I first ran into the idea in some Oz book I read as a kid, they're written between 1900 and 1920. And the idea surely predates that, though it perhaps must be a post-industrial-revolution idea.

I posted here because it's both counter-gourmet (let's find the perfect produce and cook it in some novel of classic technique) and pro-analytic (let's build a multi-million dollar lab and figure out what food is).

[SylviaLovegren]

I'm much more of a Michael Pollan kind of girl. Nature already figured out what food is. I have no problem with scientists trying to understand that but in terms of eating, I'll go with the already built incredibly complex and beautiful system that exists so easily out there. That food is pretty much free, made with solar energy and a bit of sweat equity, and it tastes really good.

[Ericpo]

Wow, that is pretty interesting.

This guy seems to be on top of things, although some of it reads slightly manic.

I guess I am of two minds about this. On the one side, I abhor the idea that food would become something that you consume with no more though or appreciation than a powdered protein supplement. Food is a huge part of my life, the preparation, culture, and enjoyment of same.

However...How many times in the past week have I wished for more time? I think everybody does. The author makes a very good point that preparing, eating, and cleaning up takes a lot of time. Also, a meal that saves me time is generally exactly what he says: Expensive and Unhealthy.

On the whole, and provided proper studies/quality control, I think I can get behind this idea. It would never ever replace food for me completely, but if I could aquire a supply fitted to my dietary needs, I would do so. I think I would actually enjoy cooking and preparing 'real' food more if I had the leisure to do so only when I desired.

I don't want at this time to consider the wide reaching sociological and geosocial ramifications. From where I sit, right now, it sounds pretty neat.

(having no time for dinner and settling for some popcorn from the theatre no doubt has influenced me )

[Baselerd]

Definitely interesting, and seems cool for anyone who feels that eating is simply a chore. With that said, I think most people enjoy food, eating, and - at least on these boards - cooking.

[fvandrog]

There's a pretty interesting article about it in the New Yorker.

I do have to admit, though, that it doesn't quite appeal to me....

[Plantes Vertes]

From the NY article:
 

 

They had been living mostly on ramen, corn dogs, and Costco frozen quesadillas—supplemented by Vitamin C tablets, to stave off scurvy—but the grocery bills were still adding up. Rob Rhinehart, one of the entrepreneurs, began to resent the fact that he had to eat at all. “Food was such a large burden,” he told me recently. “It was also the time and the hassle. We had a very small kitchen, and no dishwasher.” He tried out his own version of “Super Size Me,” living on McDonald’s dollar meals and five-dollar pizzas from Little Caesars. But after a week, he said, “I felt like I was going to die.” Kale was all the rage—and cheap—so next he tried an all-kale diet. But that didn’t work, either. “I was starving,” he said.

Rhinehart, who is twenty-five, studied electrical engineering at Georgia Tech, and he began to consider food as an engineering problem. “You need amino acids and lipids, not milk itself,” he said. “You need carbohydrates, not bread.” Fruits and vegetables provide essential vitamins and minerals, but they’re “mostly water.” He began to think that food was an inefficient way of getting what he needed to survive. “It just seemed like a system that’s too complex and too expensive and too fragile,” he told me.

 

 

He tried McDonalds dollar meals and an all-kale diet; he concluded that food was no good.

 

I don't think he really exhausted all the possibilities.

[Chris Hennes]

Ars Technica did a series on this a few months ago where one of their writers ate it for a week. The final shipping product has some changes that address a few of the issues he brought up, but I don't expect that Soylent is going to get a lot of traction around here!

[Edward J]

My way of thinking about food is, "everything in moderation".

 

After 30 odd years of professional cooking, I'm trying to grasp the concept of eating without enjoyment; enjoyment in the procurement of ingredients, in the cooking, and in the eating.

[Plantes Vertes]

I have a very strong reaction against this idea. I acknowledge that a large part comes from my own prejudices and priorities and that it's not fair to think that everyone should share those, but still... I would only want to eat Soylent if stuck in the dessert having consumed all my companions.

 

First of all, it seems mad that someone would prefer to consume a 'doughlike' liquid instead of tasty beautiful food. Not everyone cares about eating to the same degree but I don't see why, given that you have to procure and ingest something to keep you alive, you would actively choose to make that thing Soylent rather than any of the innumerable delicious and nutritious foodstuffs that nature and human effort provide.

 

Secondly, the inventor seems to disrespect and disregard the revered and generally cherished food customs of the whole world, just because they don't signify much to him. Does he really want people to suck nutrient soup from a pouch instead of sharing a meal? Just because it is hard to make the time and find the energy to do this doesn't mean we should abandon the effort - people often don't have the time or money to make a pleasure of cooking and of course there are frequent situations where you have to or would rather do something else; just have some toast or a boiled egg. There's no need to diminish food to a medical obligation just because you don't want to or aren't able to participate in its pleasures yourself.

 

Thirdly, I find it somehow morally lazy to want to expunge food from your lifestyle because you can't be bothered to cook! It's like deciding to use paper plates instead of crockery because you don't want the hassle of washing up. I do things I don't especially enjoy because they're necessary for hygiene, social life, financial security etc. Healthy food that is easy to prepare is absolutely abundant in this man's wealth bracket and part of the world; only total maladjustment and ineptitude could intervene between him and a simple healthy diet of normal food. A sandwich and a banana would be nutritionally sound and take a minute to get on the plate. I just object to the failed logic which says that when he freely and willingly fed himself on rubbish and found that it wasn't good, we need to get rid of food altogether and replace it with something else.

 

Thirdly, eating food is not a 'fragile' way of obtaining nourishment at all - at the level of the individual it's a system that has been refined over millennia through evolution (we're omnivores after all - we can survive and thrive perfectly well on a very wide range of food types), and at the level of society it's a complete delusion to think that the solution to the environmental and ethical problems of food production is to stop eating food and consume chemical slurry from a lab; how will these chemicals be produced and distributed? How will the hungry get access to them? Who will patent and sell them? We need to behave prudently and morally and use technology to make producing food less burdensome and dangerous for people and the Earth, not just... give up on eating. 

 

Finally, exactly this idea has existed and been in use in hospitals for at least twenty years that I know of and probably a lot longer, and it strikes me as quite risible for the redevelopment of a currently widespread and in circumstances vital substance to be named 'life-hacking'. It's like inventing motor-propelled transport in 2013 and calling yourself smart.

 

I absolutely see why you would want this in very restricted circumstances like space travel, but not really beyond that.

[fvandrog]

Not everyone cares about eating to the same degree but I don't see why, given that you have to procure and ingest something to keep you alive, you would actively choose to make that thing Soylent rather than any of the innumerable delicious and nutritious foodstuffs that nature and human effort provide.

I generally agree with your sentiments, and indeed this kind of nutrition is not something that attracts me to any degree.

At the same time, I do have to admit there's some things I can see which might put solylent in a more positive light. It is fast to prepare, relatively cheap and not too unhealthy. It might thus, for unfortunately way too many people, provide a valid alternative for visiting a fast-food joint. As you say, it certainly won't beat delicious and  nutritious foodstuffs, but tasteless hamburgers and the like are of course also far from that ideal. For those who currently eat their breakfast at dunkin donuts, have lunch at MacDonalds or BK and have their dinner at a Pizzahut franchise, soylent would be a step forward both for both the physical and financial health.

[Mjx]

I have a very strong reaction against this idea. I acknowledge that a large part comes from my own prejudices and priorities and that it's not fair to think that everyone should share those, but still... I would only want to eat Soylent if stuck in the dessert having consumed all my companions.

 

First of all, it seems mad that someone would prefer to consume a 'doughlike' liquid instead of tasty beautiful food. Not everyone cares about eating to the same degree but I don't see why, given that you have to procure and ingest something to keep you alive, you would actively choose to make that thing Soylent rather than any of the innumerable delicious and nutritious foodstuffs that nature and human effort provide.

 

Secondly, the inventor seems to disrespect and disregard the revered and generally cherished food customs of the whole world, just because they don't signify much to him. Does he really want people to suck nutrient soup from a pouch instead of sharing a meal? Just because it is hard to make the time and find the energy to do this doesn't mean we should abandon the effort - people often don't have the time or money to make a pleasure of cooking and of course there are frequent situations where you have to or would rather do something else; just have some toast or a boiled egg. There's no need to diminish food to a medical obligation just because you don't want to or aren't able to participate in its pleasures yourself.

 

Thirdly, I find it somehow morally lazy to want to expunge food from your lifestyle because you can't be bothered to cook! It's like deciding to use paper plates instead of crockery because you don't want the hassle of washing up. I do things I don't especially enjoy because they're necessary for hygiene, social life, financial security etc. Healthy food that is easy to prepare is absolutely abundant in this man's wealth bracket and part of the world; only total maladjustment and ineptitude could intervene between him and a simple healthy diet of normal food. A sandwich and a banana would be nutritionally sound and take a minute to get on the plate. I just object to the failed logic which says that when he freely and willingly fed himself on rubbish and found that it wasn't good, we need to get rid of food altogether and replace it with something else.

 

Thirdly, eating food is not a 'fragile' way of obtaining nourishment at all - at the level of the individual it's a system that has been refined over millennia through evolution (we're omnivores after all - we can survive and thrive perfectly well on a very wide range of food types), and at the level of society it's a complete delusion to think that the solution to the environmental and ethical problems of food production is to stop eating food and consume chemical slurry from a lab; how will these chemicals be produced and distributed? How will the hungry get access to them? Who will patent and sell them? We need to behave prudently and morally and use technology to make producing food less burdensome and dangerous for people and the Earth, not just... give up on eating. 

 

Finally, exactly this idea has existed and been in use in hospitals for at least twenty years that I know of and probably a lot longer, and it strikes me as quite risible for the redevelopment of a currently widespread and in circumstances vital substance to be named 'life-hacking'. It's like inventing motor-propelled transport in 2013 and calling yourself smart.

 

I absolutely see why you would want this in very restricted circumstances like space travel, but not really beyond that.

 

On the one hand, I definitely see all your points, and agree with most. However, just as there are people who are tone deaf, there are those (e.g. Rhinehart, aparently) to whom nunaces of taste, texture, and so on are meaningless, perhaps even undetectable; to them, food is simply fuel.

I know about half a dozen people like this, and if I'm cooking for them, I focus on volume and ease of consumption (who wants to spend more time than necessary on refuelling?). This isn't something that is likely to change, since I'm quite certain that this is a physiological trait, not a psychological one, so I just accept it, and treat it as an opportunity to relax, to not have to worry about being at the top of my game (No 'Wait. This is not Ossetra...this is Sevruga.' from these people). For food-is-simply-fuel people, busting out a packet of soyent would probably elicit cries of enthusiastic delight, so if it was available, I'd probably keep some on hand, just for them.

[Plantes Vertes]

I generally agree with your sentiments, and indeed this kind of nutrition is not something that attracts me to any degree.

At the same time, I do have to admit there's some things I can see which might put solylent in a more positive light. It is fast to prepare, relatively cheap and not too unhealthy. It might thus, for unfortunately way too many people, provide a valid alternative for visiting a fast-food joint. As you say, it certainly won't beat delicious and  nutritious foodstuffs, but tasteless hamburgers and the like are of course also far from that ideal. For those who currently eat their breakfast at dunkin donuts, have lunch at MacDonalds or BK and have their dinner at a Pizzahut franchise, soylent would be a step forward both for both the physical and financial health.

 

I agree that Soylent is not as bad as some other things, but that doesn't make it good... better availability of and education about food would be better. It's awful to think that society has failed people to the point where they don't have access to a sustainable diet, but worse to envisage just giving up on them and replacing their food with Soylent.

 

I also worry that people are eating burger diets because they are freighted with a gigantic amount of fat, salt and sugar, which make those foods tasty, and that Soylent with its er... neutral flavour would not appeal as much in general.

 

 

On the one hand, I definitely see all your points, and agree with most. However, just as there are people who are tone deaf, there are those (e.g. Rhinehart, aparently) to whom nunaces of taste, texture, and so on are meaningless, perhaps even undetectable; to them, food is simply fuel.

I know about half a dozen people like this, and if I'm cooking for them, I focus on volume and ease of consumption (who wants to spend more time than necessary on refuelling?). This isn't something that is likely to change, since I'm quite certain that this is a physiological trait, not a psychological one, so I just accept it, and treat it as an opportunity to relax, to not have to worry about being at the top of my game (No 'Wait. This is not Ossetra...this is Sevruga.' from these people). For food-is-simply-fuel people, busting out a packet of soyent would probably elicit cries of enthusiastic delight, so if it was available, I'd probably keep some on hand, just for them.

 

Yes, I have met people like that too and admit that this is just totally beyond my understanding, so perhaps I'm not empathising properly. My take is also influenced by the description of Soylent in the article ('diluted pancake batter'), which to me sounds actively disgusting. Maybe it's not so bad. I'll just have to accept that some people are not like me   

[Fernwood]

Some guy (Rob Rhinehart) is experimenting with making his own 'food' out of base materials and micronutrients.

It's totally nerdy but kind of interesting--his claim is that it's far healthier than what he was eating, though it's also tuned for him. He almost never eats normal food, just when with friends.

 

He's been doing it for 3 months now, and just posted a 3 month retrospective on his blog--read down further for the earlier posts/motivation/etc.

http://robrhinehart.com/

 

What do people here think? I think it's totally intriguing if a bit over the top; note that he's not anti-normal-food, he's just going for an 'alternative'. One which has captivated people for a very long time.

 

I think it's satire, or at least a prank.

[IowaDee]

While growing up, meals with my parents were the worst part of the day.  It was when they brought up each of my failings and short comings and their general disappointment in me.  I would have welcomed the chance to swallow a pill and call it dinner., Now all things about planning and shopping for a meal is a great pleasure and eating it is wonderful.  Sharing with the right person makes all the difference.  And, yes, even those stress related ulcers healed!

[rotuts]

NYtimes today had an article on 'Soylent'

 

sounds delicious :

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/technology/personaltech/the-soylent-revolution-will-not-be-pleasurable.html?ref=business

 

has anyone tried this stuff ? at least admit to trying it ?

[Smithy]

NYtimes today had an article on 'Soylent'

 

sounds delicious :

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/technology/personaltech/the-soylent-revolution-will-not-be-pleasurable.html?ref=business

 

has anyone tried this stuff ? at least admit to trying it ?

 

Thank you for that link, rotuts. The review and the excellent video clip  reinforced my suspicions prejudices (I admit it) about this product.  No, I haven't tried it.  I tried a little of my mother's Ensure a couple of times, marveling that her nephrologist claimed it provided full nutrition. (She didn't like it either, but we'll save the topic of kidney diets for another day.)  Sounds like this is even worse.  So no, I haven't tried it; probably never will unless someone already has a container and offers me a sip.

 

Are you offering to be the first?

[rotuts]

nope.   

 

F.D.:  Ensure 'Black Walnut'  ice ice cold  excellent if you are working through the night.  a 2 am treat

 

only B.W. though  and ice ice cold.

[Chris Hennes]

Ars Technica has another thought-provoking article today: The psychology of Soylent and the prison of first-world food choices

 

From the article:

It's something a lot of folks simply can't seem to wrap their heads around. Today it's relatively easy to make a healthy meal, so why in the hell would anyone pour Soylent down their throat?

But if you're asking that question and genuinely can't see an answer, then you're demonstrating both a profound over-projection of your own cultural norms and also a stunning lack of empathy.

[Smithy]

That's a fascinating article, Chris. I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of people with food compulsions or cooking fears before now. Thanks.

[SobaAddict70]

Not something I would be interested in because I see it as joyless.

 

BUT if someone wants it, more power to them.