Modernist Cuisine Baking Steel

[Chris Amirault]

Yeah, I went and ordered the Modernist Cuisine Special Edition Baking Steel. My 50th birthday is coming. Tease away.

Anyone else take the plunge? Have you been using it? What for?

[Lisa Shock]

I make a lot of pizza, I am about to purchase one. In the meantime, I too am curious about how it's working out for people.

[HungryC]

Been using it for weeks, it's great. Worth every cent. After an hour of preheating at 550 and 20 minutes with the broiler on high, the steel hits 700-750 degrees. Pies cook in around three minutes. Best pizza I've ever made at home, and I've tried every freaking method you can imagine (big green egg, stones, etc).

See a nice pie here... http://bouillie.us/2013/03/06/if-youre-a-pizza-freak/#jp-carousel-4744

I usually use Laheys no knead crust, aged for a day in the fridge.

Edited April 26, 2013 by HungryC (log)

[Twyst]

Ive been saying I need to buy a good pizza stone. I think I have just discovered what Ill be getting instead thanks to HungryC's post!

[janeer]

Yeah, I went and ordered the Modernist Cuisine Special Edition Baking Steel. My 50th birthday is coming. Tease away.

Anyone else take the plunge? Have you been using it? What for?

I would want the 1/2" one. I had a 1/2" rectangular stone this size for over 20 yrs and think the thickness makes a difference.

[StumptownGeek]

I have the 1/2" thick version ("The Big") from the original Kickstarter project. I've made about a dozen pizzas on it. They've had the best pizza crusts I've ever made.

It's very heavy. It's difficult to pick up or put down on a flat surface unless you have part of it hanging out over an edge. I also bought one of their storage sleeves to make it easier to carry and put away when I'm not using it.

If you use it in a range with the cracked open door technique to keep the broiler element on be careful - I melted the oven control knobs on my range that way. I do still use that technique but now I remove the knobs first.

[Syzygies]

My 1/2" "Big" version is on order since Monday. Order status shows still in process. I suspect these may be made to order, or at least in batches to keep up with orders. There's a nice discussion elsewhere on exactly how difficult it is to clean a plate of steel from one's local metal yard to the degree these are cleaned. Figure that's 3/4ths of the price, and worth it; it can't be done at home.

The suggestion is made that these also can be used for artisan bread, but I couldn't find accounts of anyone doing this. Besides the intended "use like a baking stone", there are two other ways a baking steel could be involved in artisan bread:

• Above the loaf. Baking steels are said to radiate like crazy. The Tartine Bread cast iron school claims the pot is to contain steam, but in my experience cooking in a cast iron combo cooker is as much about radiant heat. With the Bouchon Bakery approach of sufficient steam (350 grams, not the 15 grams one gets from a plant mister), I don't get the same crusts.

• On the oven floor, underneath a tray or large skillet for producing Bouchon Bakery levels of steam. The price per pound decreases with thickness, with the "Big" the best value, competitive with other metal sources (all of which are roughly 13% as efficient as water at holding heat). Here, rust is a significant risk to be addressed.

Getting several of these sounds expensive, but only compared to a new oven. Most home ovens are woefully inadequate in their thermal mass and radiant heat properties. These baking steels make for a cheap fix?

Consider including their cleaning blocks in an order, to get in on the free shipping. These look useful for any backyard grill, and certainly for the baking steel itself.

[Unpopular Poet]

I have really been waivering on one of these as well -- I have been obsessing all winter about building a brick oven in the backyard. From the members that have used it -- Is it worth the extra $20 for the bigger model?

[HungryC]

The big drawback of the larger version is the weight. Unless your oven racks are especially sturdy, the thicker version might collapse them.

[scott123]

Neapolitan-style pizza, now in your home oven.

Here we are, two years later, and Chris and Nathan still have no idea what Neapolitan style pizza is.

They did, to their credit, eventually listen to concerns relating to bake times (mine, and, I'm sure, others) and post a correction:

"On page 2.27, in step 6, "1.5-2 min" should read "2-7 min" and the step should further note that "the exact timing varies from one oven to another." In step 7, "By the two-minute mark, the pizza should be done. Remove it from the oven" should read "Once the top of the pizza crust turns brown, remove the pizza from the oven.""

but how many more years is it going to take before they learn the incredibly simple fact that Neapolitan style pizza is bake time specific?

A 3 minute bake (about the best this can do in home ovens) is NOT Neapolitan style pizza. Using this warped definition of Neapolitan style pizza is incredibly misleading to potential steel plate buyers looking to recreate the real thing at home.


Misleading advertising aside, as far as using steel plate for other styles goes, though, nothing is better- at least, for certain ovens, and definitely not at this price. You can get the same plate (in, preferably, a much larger size) for 1/4 the price locally from a metal plate distributor. Have them cut it in half, for easier insertion/retrieval,

soak the plate in vinegar overnight and scrub it lightly to remove the thin layer of iron oxide. Because a pizza that is sufficiently floured to launch off a peel won't stick to the baking surface, and because pizza is generally baked at temps high enough to bake most seasoning off, seasoning is completely unnecessary.

Before you go steel plate shopping, though, you need to make sure that you have the right oven. Quite a few people have gas ovens with a broiler below in a separate drawer. In this bottom heat scenario, where the top of the pizza will bake very slowly, steel will speed up the bottom bake even further. In this kind of oven, you don't want the higher conductivity of steel. Another type of oven where steel isn't recommended is an oven that can't go above 500. Quite a few ovens have a 500 peak dial temp, but, when dialed to this setting, will actually get considerably hotter- 550 or higher. For some ovens, though, that 500 dial temp is an honest portrayal. In those instances, 500 will not give you the full range of potential NY style bake times. For 'true' 500 degree environments, aluminum plate is the better choice.

In summation, steel plate, purchased locally, is ideal for some styles of pizza, just not Neapolitan, and only in ovens that can reach high enough temperatures and have broilers in the main compartment. It is not a one size fits all solution.

Edited April 26, 2013 by scott123 (log)

[scott123]

There's a nice discussion elsewhere on exactly how difficult it is to clean a plate of steel from one's local metal yard to the degree these are cleaned. Figure that's 3/4ths of the price, and worth it; it can't be done at home.

There's plenty of conjecture relating to the difficulty of cleaning steel, but even more real world examples of how easy steel is to clean at home with an overnight soak in vinegar. It most definitely can be done at home, and, for a savings of about $75 on a $100 plate, it's more than worth that effort, imo.

[lancastermike]

Does anyone know the coposition of the steel they use for this device. I did not see it mentioned in the link poted.

[sigma]

Are people really suggesting you can have Neapolitan pizza without a good char? As somebody who has spent a lot of time in Naples, I can tell you that the char is definitional.

[lancastermike]

Been using it for weeks, it's great. Worth every cent. After an hour of preheating at 550 and 20 minutes with the broiler on high, the steel hits 700-750 degrees. Pies cook in around three minutes. Best pizza I've ever made at home, and I've tried every freaking method you can imagine (big green egg, stones, etc).

See a nice pie here... http://bouillie.us/2013/03/06/if-youre-a-pizza-freak/#jp-carousel-4744

I usually use Laheys no knead crust, aged for a day in the fridge.

If I get my BGE cranked up, my cheap infra red thermometer tells me my ceramic baking stone gets well over 800. I can't comment as to the difference between hot ceramic and hot steel plate as I have zero knowledge of the topic. And I don't claim that pizza I make is Neopolitan. But it is good and it does get charred.

[scott123]

Is it worth the extra $20 for the bigger model?

Purchasing this online, as I said before, is flushing money down the drain, but, as far as making the decision to go with 1/2", 3/8" or 1/4", it really depends on your desired style and oven specs. This is a rough approximation of how it works out

1/2" + 550 = 3/8" + 575 = 1/4" + 600 = 3 minute Neo-NYish bake (soft/puffy, some undercrust char, but no leoparding)

1/2" + 525 = 3/8" + 550 = 1/4" + 575 = 4-5 minute NY style (soft/puffy, relatively evenly colored undercrust, no real crispiness)

1/2" + 500 = 3/8" + 525 = 1/4" + 550 = 7 minute crispier NY style

As I said, this is a rough approximation. There's a bit more data on 1/2" bakes than 1/4" so the 1/2" side is a bit more concrete. If , for instance, you like a NY style pizza with some crispiness (and are willing to forgo some puffiness/oven spring) then 1/2" might be overkill. On the other hand, if you want the greatest range of potential NY bakes and the most flexibility, then 1/2" is the way to go.

Another factor to consider is that thickness dictates recovery. The more pies you do in one sitting, the thicker the plate is required in order to avoid long recovery times between bakes. Again, it depends on oven specs/how many watts/btus it can pump into the plate during/between pies, but, generally speaking, 1/4" will only get you around 2-3 pizzas before the temp starts plummeting while 1/2" should comfortably handle up to 6 back to back.

The big drawback of the larger version is the weight. Unless your oven racks are especially sturdy, the thicker version might collapse them.

The vast majority of domestic ovens have shelves that are built to handle large Thanksgiving turkeys, in big pans, with added vegetables on the side. 40 lb., the heaviest you'd go with 1/2" steel, is very much in this ballpark. Out of around 30 people that I know working with 1/2" steel, I've never come across anyone who's racks collapsed from the weight. Occasionally, with very cheap racks, they might bow a bit. If this concerns you, remove the shelf from the equation entirely and rest the plate on two lengths of angle iron, steel or aluminum run from shelf lip to shelf lip. This solution also works well for shelves with valuable space robbing lips at the back.

That back to front space is critical. As a beginner, one might not care much about pizza size, but, as you take it more seriously, size makes a huge difference (rim to sauce/cheese ratio, aesthetics, slice 'feel,' etc.). For NY style, a 14" deep plate (that can only make 13.5" pizzas) is woefully undersized. Ideally, you want a square plate that will touch the back wall and almost touch the door- just small enough so the door closes, but no smaller.

[scott123]

Does anyone know the coposition of the steel they use for this device. I did not see it mentioned in the link poted.

It's a36 hot rolled steel aka 'mild' steel. It's the same steel used in the vast majority of kitchen grills across the globe.

Are people really suggesting you can have Neapolitan pizza without a good char? As somebody who has spent a lot of time in Naples, I can tell you that the char is definitional.

More than suggesting. When I stated that char is definitional 2 years ago on this forum, I was torn a new one. There are those of us that have either been to Naples or have been to domestic Neapolitan pizzerias that following traditional Neapolitan rules and know how Neapolitan style pizza should be defined, and then there's Chris Young, who comes along and defines Neapolitan style as whatever he wants it to be, and, because of Nathan Myhrvold's vast reputation, this kind of abject misinformation travels far.

[Syzygies]

Here we are, two years later, and Chris and Nathan still have no idea what Neapolitan style pizza is.

Well, generalize that: no two ovens are the same. It's dumb to want to recreate Hemingway's mojito, because mint grown anywhere else is different. Same with ovens. A rational cook is intrigued by baking steels because they might take us in the direction of Neapolitan pizza. No one takes seriously the idea that one can cook Neapolitan pizza outside of Naples. One sees how this thing works in our oven, and adapts.

I did skip the 3/8" baking steel because I didn't want the Modernist Cuisine logo. Not a Nathan thing, I just don't like logos.

There's plenty of conjecture relating to the difficulty of cleaning steel, but even more real world examples of how easy steel is to clean at home with an overnight soak in vinegar. It most definitely can be done at home, and, for a savings of about $75 on a $100 plate, it's more than worth that effort, imo.

Here are two links, and yes that's the ultimate conclusion. No one should go down this DIY road with any illusions, so read all the stories before proceeding. I wouldn't call the failed attempts "conjecture" but yes there's a right way to do this, and some might rather spend the money.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22626.0.html

http://forum.chefsteps.com/discussion/128/anybody-else-have-a-baking-steel

Note the comparison of thermal transfer rates for aluminum. The makers of Fibrament pizza stones also worry about this; they think soapstone has too high a thermal transfer rate, so they'd surely disapprove of baking steels. But it's an empirical question, no?

[slkinsey]

Neapolitan-style pizza, now in your home oven.

Here we are, two years later, and Chris and Nathan still have no idea what Neapolitan style pizza is.

I am at least as much a purist as the next guy, but this strikes me as needless nitpicking. It's not D.O.C. Neapolitan pizza. It's Neapolitan style pizza, meaning that it evokes many of the same qualities as Neapolitan pizza but isn't the same thing. You have your time-based criterion for what allows something to be called "Neapolitan style" but that is no more definitive than another person's criterion that only pizza made with mozzarella di bufala may be called "Neapolitan style."

Before you go steel plate shopping, though, you need to make sure that you have the right oven. Quite a few people have gas ovens with a broiler below in a separate drawer. In this bottom heat scenario, where the top of the pizza will bake very slowly, steel will speed up the bottom bake even further. In this kind of oven, you don't want the higher conductivity of steel.

I have exactly this kind of oven. I put a 1/2-inch steel plate in the broiler drawer, preheat on broil for an hour or so, and bake the pizzas in the broiler drawer with the broiler on full blast. It takes a bit more dexterity with the peel, but the results are good. Next time out, I will make sure to scale the ingredients as appropriate for the style and time how long it takes. My most recent effort was around twice the size and had around 5 times the amount of toppings compared to a traditional one like this, and it baked in 4 minutes. I doubt I could get down to 60 seconds, but I bet I could get pretty close to 90.

[scott123]

Well, generalize that: no two ovens are the same. It's dumb to want to recreate Hemingway's mojito, because mint grown anywhere else is different. Same with ovens. A rational cook is intrigued by baking steels because they might take us in the direction of Neapolitan pizza. No one takes seriously the idea that one can cook Neapolitan pizza outside of Naples.

?!? Uh... thousands of people, both professional and home bakers take this idea incredibly seriously. You are familiar with pizzamaking.com, correct ? Heat doesn't discriminate. As long as you can match the intensity of heat, either with high temperatures and/or more conductive materials, you can make a flawless 60-90 second Neapolitan style pizza in any oven, even at home. Very few home oven owners have broilers that are strong enough to produce leoparding on the rim, but it's possible. Just not with 3/8" steel plate at 550 or less.

Here are two links, and yes that's the ultimate conclusion. No one should go down this DIY road with any illusions, so read all the stories before proceeding. I wouldn't call the failed attempts "conjecture" but yes there's a right way to do this, and some might rather spend the money.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22626.0.html

http://forum.chefsteps.com/discussion/128/anybody-else-have-a-baking-steel

Note the comparison of thermal transfer rates for aluminum. The makers of Fibrament pizza stones also worry about this; they think soapstone has too high a thermal transfer rate, so they'd surely disapprove of baking steels. But it's an empirical question, no?

There were probably thousands of attempts to fly before the Wright Brothers came along. Do we really care about the failed attempts? Should anyone really be telling people not to fly because, at some point, it wasn't figured out yet? Of course not. It was a windy road getting to the vinegar soak, but we got there. Vinegar works.

Evidence of aluminum's abilities:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21951.0.html

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23750.0.html

I do believe that aluminum's extreme conductivity does require a few a formula tweaks for success, but it's still a very viable material for pizzamaking. Unless someone is willing to mod their oven, it's the only option for fast bakes in sub 500 ovens, and, for those with the right broilers (maybe 1 in 200), it's the ideal material for 60-90 Neapolitan style bakes at less than 600.

Edited April 26, 2013 by scott123 (log)

[Syzygies]

I do believe that aluminum's extreme conductivity does require a few a formula tweaks for success, but it's still a very viable material for pizzamaking.

Ok, I'll bite. What's the best way to get a piece of aluminum you consider adequate?

[scott123]

I am at least as much a purist as the next guy, but this strikes me as needless nitpicking. It's not D.O.C. Neapolitan pizza. It's Neapolitan style pizza, meaning that it evokes many of the same qualities as Neapolitan pizza but isn't the same thing. You have your time-based criterion for what allows something to be called "Neapolitan style" but that is no more definitive than another person's criterion that only pizza made with mozzarella di bufala may be called "Neapolitan style."

With all due respect, you're splitting etymological hairs that shouldn't be split. In the retail world, the word 'style' has a legal shell game connotation (to safeguard from trademark/copyright infringement) as something that's 'similar' but not equal. In the pizza world, this legal mumbo jumbo doesn't exist. Neapolitan pizza = Neapolitan style pizza. 'Style' doesn't give you wiggle room. It's DOC all the way. The only way you might find some room for argument is in the less specific 'Neapolitan pizza.' You might, for instance, find a Roman style pizzeria in Naples, and, because it's located physically in Naples, one might refer to it as a Neapolitan pizzeria, and, someone somewhere, might even go as far as to call it Neapolitan pizza. But that's a bit of a stretch. For pizza 'style' means 'type' or 'genre,' not the watered down 'similar.'

Look at NY style pizza. Is that fact that 'style' is used mean that it's any different than the type of pizza you find in NY? Of course not. NY pizza = NY style pizza. Chicago pizza = Chicago style pizza. And so on and so on.

Neapolitan style pizza (and the almost always synonymous 'Neapolitan Pizza'), is, like Reggiano and Champagne, easily definable. The Neapolitans have, in an effort to protect their cultural treasure, laid out crystal clear guidelines relating to it's manufacture:

http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_napoletana/VPN_spec.html

These guidelines aren't always followed to the letter in every aspect at every Neapolitan style pizza (in Naples or elsewhere), but when it comes to 60-90 second bake times and the characteristics that these bake times produce (leoparding, puff), these are the standards that 99.9% of culturally aware Neapolitan style pizzerias follow.

I have exactly this kind of oven. I put a 1/2-inch steel plate in the broiler drawer, preheat on broil for an hour or so, and bake the pizzas in the broiler drawer with the broiler on full blast. It takes a bit more dexterity with the peel, but the results are good. Next time out, I will make sure to scale the ingredients as appropriate for the style and time how long it takes. My most recent effort was around twice the size and had around 5 times the amount of toppings compared to a traditional one like this, and it baked in 4 minutes. I doubt I could get down to 60 seconds, but I bet I could get pretty close to 90.

Sam, it was your eGCI tutorial on Stovetop Cookware 10 years ago that jumpstarted my fascination with materials science, and the ensuing quest to apply this knowledge to pizza hearth materials that brought me to the understanding where I am today, so I am heavily in your debt, but I can't with your sole endorsement, immediately do a 180 on my feelings on broiler drawer techniques.

First of all, not every broiler drawer burner stays on indefinitely for the duration of a pre-heat. In order to achieve your 4 minute results, the broiler has to stay on for the whole hour. If it cycles on and off, the steel won't get hot enough. What works for you may not work for everyone.

Secondly, I don't post photos, so it may not seem fair for me to ask, but I'm also not defending a generally unproven technique either. The big question with a broiler drawer technique is never top coloring- with close proximity to the broiler anyone can brown the top of a pizza. The proof of this technique is the ability of the broiler to fully saturate the plate and brown the bottom in the allotted time. If you're going to take pictures on a future attempt, please post an upskirt.

Third, this technique tends to be a bit inconsistent. Main compartment w/ broiler approaches tend to be incredibly consistent with their results. The plate/stone will drop a bit between bakes (less with more thermal mass), but the 4th pizza won't be that different than the 1st. With a broiler pre-heat, it's very difficult to dial in a consistent hearth temp, so later pizzas fluctuate pretty wildly. I know that it's not fair to compare a broiler drawer to a main compartment with a broiler, but I've spend a lot of time developing broiler-less configurations, and I strongly believe, with a very low conductivity stone and a false ceiling with good emissivity, consistent 4 minute bakes can be achieved in a bottom heat only scenario (much like commercial gas deck oven configurations).

Fourth, and this is somewhat trivial compare to my other concerns, but I do feel pretty strongly that size matters. Broiler drawers tend to have less real estate than main compartments.

Fifth, and this is probably the most trivial of all, but many broiler drawers are located close to floor level, and a good number of people aren't comfortable working with a peel at that height.

Now, regardless of my level of skepticism, I want this to be viable, as I know a lot of people with broiler drawers. I would ask that you stick with the 4 minute pies that you're doing rather than trying to prove 90 second (or even 120 second) Neapolitan style bakes are possible. Trust me, that's a fools errand. Even if you could ramp up the temp of the plate high enough for the bottom to bake in 120 seconds, there's not a home gas oven on the planet with a strong enough broiler to bake the top of a traditional Neapolitan 00 unmalted sugar free oil free dough in 120 seconds.

If you could do consistent 4 minute malted bromated NY style pies with 1/2" steel under a gas broiler, that would be a game changer, imo- an extremely welcome game changer.

[scott123]

I do believe that aluminum's extreme conductivity does require a few a formula tweaks for success, but it's still a very viable material for pizzamaking.

Ok, I'll bite. What's the best way to get a piece of aluminum you consider adequate?

Aluminum as a hearth material is still in it's infancy. The results have been incredibly promising, and I firmly believe it has a place, but most of the people that have been able to score a plate have either been in the metal business themselves or knew a relative. I've helped many people source steel locally, but, so far, I've not made any calls for aluminum The really nice thing about a36 steel is that, regardless of where you live, a glance in the yellow pages will give you multiple sources, and it's just a matter of narrowing down the cheapest.

All this being said, the premise really isn't that different. The drive might be a bit longer, but most people should have at least one metal distributor in their area that stocks aluminum plate. If you do a map search in google for 'aluminum' or 'metal' it will pull up a lot of extraneous wholesale and recycling-related hits, but, if you're patient, you can go down the list, call each to find out if the carry aluminum plate and sell to the public and you'll eventually get a hit.

Is there any particular reason why aluminum might appeal to you? If you've got an oven that can hit 550 (most can) then aluminum isn't really going to give you much of a leg up over 1/2" steel. If you want authentic Neapolitan, then it might help, but you'll want to check your broiler specs long before shopping for aluminum. Like I said before, only about 1 in 200 broilers have the necessary power to do Neapolitan. If you could look up the wattage, I can tell you if there's hope, otherwise, you can get a good idea from the appearance of the element. The coils have to be relatively thick and there needs to be plenty of passes- 10 at least. This is the kind of broiler that you'd need:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16227.msg167250.html#msg167250

There's also, obviously, oven tricks and oven mods you can do which might help those with slightly weaker broilers achieve leoparding, but those will only get you so far, and, if you really push your oven, you might break it. If you were comfortable living slightly on the edge, and, say, pushing your oven to around 650 (which for most ovens, is pretty tame), that might give you a bit more top heat, and would remove the need for aluminum. 650 with 1/2" steel should give you sub 90 second undercrust leoparding. Even with a 650 preheat, you'd still be at the mercy of broiler. Without plenty of passes, it's just not possible.

Edited April 27, 2013 by scott123 (log)

[Syzygies]

Is there any particular reason why aluminum might appeal to you?

My apartment oven can hit 550 F, so I'll take this one step at a time, and try the 1/2" steel plate.

In California I have a Komodo Kamado (http://www.komodokamado.com/) that can hit 1000 F. I have to talk friends out of cooking steaks at 800 F, because they've never been able to do so before. So I believe in moderation (my pizzas there have been 600 F on a Fibrament stone, and not quite Neapolitan style) but I want to understand my options. I'll probably go your route in getting a 1/2" steel octagon, strip it myself with vinegar, just to understand the alternative.

Thanks for your detailed reply!

[Lisa Shock]

Has anyone done anything interesting with one of these frozen, anti-griddle style?

[scott123]

In California I have a Komodo Kamado (http://www.komodokamado.com/) that can hit 1000 F. I have to talk friends out of cooking steaks at 800 F, because they've never been able to do so before. So I believe in moderation (my pizzas there have been 600 F on a Fibrament stone, and not quite Neapolitan style) but I want to understand my options. I'll probably go your route in getting a 1/2" steel octagon, strip it myself with vinegar, just to understand the alternative.

Actually, although Sam and I have gone back and forth regarding a gas oven with a lower broiler drawer, there's no question about a Kamado being a bottom heat source scenario, and in that setup, steel's conductivity makes it counterproductive. In a home oven with a broiler, the top heat can be adjusted, by using the broiler, to the fast bottom bake you get with steel. Without a top heat source, though, steel will cook the bottom of the pizza so fast, the top will most likely still be raw.

In grill settings (or for that matter, wood fired oven, side-heat settings) steel is to be avoided at all cost because of the heat balance issue. In these settings, you want to favor the top heat as much as possible by handicapping the hearth with low conductivity materials. Since fibrament is about the least conductive hearth material on the market, this makes it ideal for this scenario- at least for 4 minute-ish NY bakes.

Can the Kamado burn wood? If it's large enough, with an added false ceiling, you might be able to put a small cordierite stone in the front (I wouldn't trust fibrament, even the grill version, with direct flame) with a log burning underneath at the back. This is how the KettlePizza folks attempt Neo. You need a lot of lateral space, though, as the flame can't contact the edge of the stone or you'll get burnt edges on the pizza. Not that the KettlePizza approach guarantees Neapolitan bakes. Neapolitan in a grill, any grill, is incredibly difficult. Countless people have tried and failed. And that's with grills that people are willing to mod and carve up. The Kamado doesn't seem like the kind of equipment one would take a saw or a drill to.

4 minute NY bakes can kick some serious butt. I, personally, prefer them to the best Neapolitan pizza that I've ever had. Truth be told, I am a bit biased With your Kamado, though, I think world class 4 minute NY style pies with 600-650 fibrament will be far more feasible than the Neo-in-a-grill holy grail.