Do richer flavors make you feel full sooner?

[pastameshugana]

Our family has a great love of Indian food (having lived there for a couple of years) and we've always noticed that when we get it, we can never eat as much as we'd like.

The DW and I were talking about it last night, and it seems that it's not just the Indian food, but any of the very rich tasting, very flavorful food we enjoy, we always end up eating less that we think we would otherwise.

On the other hand, here in our new hometown, the traditional fare is tasty, but rather bland (compared to the rich cuisines of the world). It seems like I can put away a serious whack of beef brisket or the milder versions of Mexican food we find around here.

We were led to speculate if the overabundance of flavor in some foods tricks the body into feeling more 'satisfied'. Of course, the flip-side is that the desire to eat may certainly increase when consuming more flavorful food.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this completely in our heads? Also, has there every been any clinical look at it (that you know of)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Mjx]

I've noticed this phenomenon too, and wondered whether it is universal, or specific to some people. If nothing else, I am very aware of how full I feel if what I'm using is intensely flavoured, while I can easily eat more than a comfortable amount of something bland before noticing that I've done so.

Which makes me wonder, why do conventional 'diet' foods tend to be so bland?

[annachan]

The intense flavors have to come from somewhere. When I think of rich, intense flavors, fat is often involved.

[ChrisTaylor]

That's a fair point. For me, intense flavours (that I actually like) demand I overindulge.

[Mjx]

I wonder whether the various perceptions have most to do with the culinary tradition one knows best; when I think of intense flavours, I think in terms of seasoning and reduction, rather then something with a great deal of fat; I grew up with Tuscan cooking, wich tends to be relatively lean, but is often very concentrated.

[GlorifiedRice]

Its worth a mention that that DIET Product SENSA (the stuff you sprinkle on food) is flavored with CHILI (like bowl of chili) for the savory sprinkles and raspberries for the sweet sprinkles. You can barely smell and taste it but it makes you stop eating so much.

[slkinsey]

I think there may be a confusion between richer flavors, as one would get from deeply browned meats, and richer food, as one would get from a high fat content.

When it comes to richer or more intense flavors, I don't see that they would make you feel full faster. As for richer food, it absolutely does make you feel full faster because you're eating a lot of calories. It's worthy of note that your example of Indian food is not only highly flavored, but in restaurants especially the sauces are very high in fat.

[Mjx]

I think there may be a confusion between richer flavors, as one would get from deeply browned meats, and richer food, as one would get from a high fat content.

When it comes to richer or more intense flavors, I don't see that they would make you feel full faster. As for richer food, it absolutely does make you feel full faster because you're eating a lot of calories. It's worthy of note that your example of Indian food is not only highly flavored, but in restaurants especially the sauces are very high in fat.

I don't know why more richly flavoured foods might make people feel more full – or more satisfied, which is not exactly the same – with smaller amounts, but I've noticed that it does, and when discussing it with others, many have mentioned experiencing a similar effect, almost as though the brain is somehow keeping track of flavour units as a measure of how much has been eaten.

[slkinsey]

Michaela, I think this is because richer-flavored foods are almost always higher in fat. Indeed, for most people, "rich" is just a convenient way to say "lots of fat."

What are some examples of rich-tasting foods that have a more-filling-than-expected effect that are not also high in fat?

[Mjx]

Michaela, I think this is because richer-flavored foods are almost always higher in fat. Indeed, for most people, "rich" is just a convenient way to say "lots of fat."

What are some examples of rich-tasting foods that have a more-filling-than-expected effect that are not also high in fat?

First thing that springs to mind is peposo. Just a cheap cut of beef, tomatoes, garlic, a little wine, and lots of pepper, braised for a couple of hours, then reduced. Since traditionally, the meat isn't even browned, there's very little fat. Yet, the flavour is so intense, it's borders on the uncomfortable to eat without an accompaniment (potatoes are traditional, but I have problems with them, so I often go with a red lentil puree). I'm sure it's possible to gorge yourself on this, but no one I know seems to do this.

I'd put dried fruit and bresaola in this category, too.

I should mention that I do tend to seek out this type of food, because rich things (meaning those containing a fair amount of fat) tend to make me queasy, if I eat more than a little.

[ambra]

Maybe you get sick of the flavors faster.

[slkinsey]

Michaela, I think this is because richer-flavored foods are almost always higher in fat. Indeed, for most people, "rich" is just a convenient way to say "lots of fat."

What are some examples of rich-tasting foods that have a more-filling-than-expected effect that are not also high in fat?

First thing that springs to mind is peposo. Just a cheap cut of beef, tomatoes, garlic, a little wine, and lots of pepper, braised for a couple of hours, then reduced. Since traditionally, the meat isn't even browned, there's very little fat. Yet, the flavour is so intense, it's borders on the uncomfortable to eat without an accompaniment (potatoes are traditional, but I have problems with them, so I often go with a red lentil puree). I'm sure it's possible to gorge yourself on this, but no one I know seems to do this.

I'd put dried fruit and bresaola in this category, too.

Let's look at what you're talking about, though...

Leaving aside the fact that many cheap cuts are actually quite high in fat, you're not exactly saying that peposo makes you full so much as you're saying that the intensity of flavor makes it difficult for you to eat all that much of it. Considering that you're eating it with an accompanying starch, the guess is that you don't necessarily eat a notably smaller quantity of food when you're having this dish.

Dried fruit, of course, is actually quite filling. This is because it's full of fiber, and when it rehydrates in your stomach it fills it up. Think about eating 4 dried apricots. It doesn't seem like that much food, but it's just 4 apricots with the water removed. So if the 4 fresh ones would fill you up, it makes sense that the 4 dried ones will too.

Bresaola and other salty, concentrated foods like this are again ones where you might feel sated due to the intensity of flavor, saltiness and high caloric load rather than physically "full." In the case of bresaola, although its richness may not come from fat, it is still very highly concentrated calories.

[Mjx]

. . . .

First thing that springs to mind is peposo. Just a cheap cut of beef, tomatoes, garlic, a little wine, and lots of pepper, braised for a couple of hours, then reduced. Since traditionally, the meat isn't even browned, there's very little fat. Yet, the flavour is so intense, it's borders on the uncomfortable to eat without an accompaniment (potatoes are traditional, but I have problems with them, so I often go with a red lentil puree). I'm sure it's possible to gorge yourself on this, but no one I know seems to do this.

I'd put dried fruit and bresaola in this category, too.

Let's look at what you're talking about, though...

Leaving aside the fact that many cheap cuts are actually quite high in fat, you're not exactly saying that peposo makes you full so much as you're saying that the intensity of flavor makes it difficult for you to eat all that much of it. Considering that you're eating it with an accompanying starch, the guess is that you don't necessarily eat a notably smaller quantity of food when you're having this dish.

That's the thing: I actually do eat less. In fact, I made a version of this tonight, with some venison. It was delicious, but about a 3/4 cup of rice with about the same amount of peposo over it was as much as I could handle (there were no other dishes, this was it). My boyfriend had a little more but not much. Once it is reduced, the tartness of the tomatoes approaches the richness of tomato concentrate.

Dried fruit, of course, is actually quite filling. This is because it's full of fiber, and when it rehydrates in your stomach it fills it up. Think about eating 4 dried apricots. It doesn't seem like that much food, but it's just 4 apricots with the water removed. So if the 4 fresh ones would fill you up, it makes sense that the 4 dried ones will too.

Bresaola and other salty, concentrated foods like this are again ones where you might feel sated due to the intensity of flavor, saltiness and high caloric load rather than physically "full." In the case of bresaola, although its richness may not come from fat, it is still very highly concentrated calories.

Well, I can't disagree, and I'm not arguing against any of the points you make.

The questions were whether intensely flavoured things satisfied in smaller quantities, and whether intensely flavoured foods were very likely to be rich in fat.

My own impression (confirmed empirically, if not exactly representatively, since I don't know all that many people) is that richly-flavoured foods do seem to satisfy at smaller quantities; and the foods I mentioned were simply examples intensely-flavoured foods that are not particularly high in fat (I'm not looking at this from a health standpoint, by the way, just source-of-flavour perspective).

Your point about, say, dried apricots still being simply apricots minus the water is absolutely correct, but the thing is, I can eat close to a kilo of fresh apricots, one after the other, whereas over 5 or 6 dried apricots are enough for me at one go. And I just cannot eat much bresaola (2 or three slices), but I can eat a small bistecca fiorentina (0.75 kg or so) on my own.

For many people (I'm not saying this is universal), there does seem to be some sort of connection between flavour intensity and satiety, and it seems to be something independent of high levels of fat to carry the flavour.

[pastameshugana]

Lots of interesting thoughts here - and I guess the phenomenon does seem to link to personality/personal diet as well. We all know the person(s) who can eat barrels full of anything, whether good or not!

Another personal example (which I know isn't scientific in the least!) - In our home we'll occasionally do the boxed Mac 'n Cheese (with 5 kids, it's an easy weeknight meal!). When I make it, it's per the box instructions, and it'll take at least three boxes and we'll eat every drop. When Mrs. Meshugana makes it, we never come close to polishing off three, and could feasibly get by with two. The difference is she will usually add beef bullion to the cooking water, but exempts most of the milk and retains cooking water for moisture.

So - the fat content can't be an issue, but it is certainly more 'flavorful' and robust a dish, and it seems to affect all of the mini-meshuganas as well. Even #2 who can eat like a black hole!

Another 2.5 cents...

[Lindacakes]

Interestingly, Indian and Mexican food was mentioned.

Ghee and lard.

[JHeald]

In Molecular Gastronomy, Herve This discusses how the perception of specific molecules (e.g. MSG and other glutamates) induces satiety at a faster rate than other molecules. If I remember correctly (I don't have the book in front of me) studies with rats has demonstrated that food/drink mixtures that include glutamates induce satiety faster, as measured by the rate at which the rats stop eating. These molecules also effect insulin secretion.

[Jenni]

Not really sure about the OP's theory. I eat Indian food everyday and I can certainly eat a lot of it if I want to. Certainly I am satisfied by a normal portion, yes, but if I really like the taste of something I can easily eat a large portion of it.

I think the feelings you are describing about not being able to eat much of the food are to do with eating restaurant Indian food, which is made with more fats and also tends to be richer dishes (because most people want to eat something special when they eat out, not every day home food). Everyone knows Indian food in the West is heavier and richer but it is also true that in India, restaurant food is probably always going to be heavier and greasier and even if you eat at somebody's house they will tend to make you richer foods like poori and put extra ghee on your portions to honour you as a guest.

On the other hand, maybe even though you obviously love Indian food, it is stronger flavours than your body grew up with and therefore you find it more overwhelming. Who knows. All I can say is that there are PLENTY of Indians who will testify that good tasting, spicy and rich foods are still very easy to eat a lot of!

ETA: If it's a glutmates thing you should know that ajinomoto is thrown about hither and thither in restaurant food in India so that could be it too.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Jenni (log)

[Mjx]

Not really sure about the OP's theory. I eat Indian food everyday and I can certainly eat a lot of it if I want to. Certainly I am satisfied by a normal portion, yes, but if I really like the taste of something I can easily eat a large portion of it.

. . . .

The question is, given an intensely flavourful dish, and an identical-except-for-flavour-intensity counterpart, would the former ring the 'Ah, that's enough' bell more quickly than the latter?

I've certainly done the 'Well, I've had enough, but... damn, this is so good, I'll keep eating, regardless' sort of thing, but I am always aware of when I've reached satiety (even if I ignore it). Still, I can put away a lot more plain crisps at a go, than marmite-flavoured ones (even though I'll pick the marmite-flavoured ones over the plain ones, almost any time).

[pastameshugana]

Ok,

Here's some more food-for-though on this subject:

http://gizmodo.com/5895142/the-stronger-food-smells-the-less-you-eat

I wonder if that's what it is? Certainly the foods mentioned are very aromatic...