Brine Curing a Fresh Ham

[BadRabbit]

I am planning on brining a fresh half ham over the next week and was wondering if it would do any good to add some additional herbs\ flavors to the brine. I will be using a brine similar to Ruhlman's (i.e. cure, salt, brown sugar) and will be smoking it after the cure.

I was thinking of juniper and sage or perhaps just some fresh thyme. Will the flavors penetrate the ham well during the cure or am I just wasting my thyme?

What other flavors would work well in a ham?

Edited November 17, 2011 by BadRabbit (log)

[IndyRob]

Alton Brown is pretty adamant about how brines can bring other (water soluble) flavors into the meat and anecdotally I know this to be true for thinner cuts (an experimental brining of a piece of beef with a lot of coriander produced a vaguely pastrami-ish result).

My big question with larger cuts is how much time is needed for the osmosis to reach the center - and whether some of the flavorings might be left behind at some point on the brine's journey towards the center. The salt level should eventually reach an equilibrium, but is there a reason for other flavors to make the whole trip?

From looking at Alton's book, it appears that it will happen, but my gut feeling is that it isn't so simple.

This almost begs an experiment where we put too much of an agressive flavor into a brine and then judge various parts of the resulting meat.

[qrn]

you might try going to len Polis website archives,there is a huge amount of stuff like that there,

Bud

[BadRabbit]

My big question with larger cuts is how much time is needed for the osmosis to reach the center - and whether some of the flavorings might be left behind at some point on the brine's journey towards the center. The salt level should eventually reach an equilibrium, but is there a reason for other flavors to make the whole trip?

This thought was the impetus for this thread. I'm wondering if the other flavorings will move through the meat at the same speed as the salt. My biggest concern is that i'd end up with a ham that tastes overly like juniper around the edges with very little flavor making it to the middle.

I'm thinking I might could avoid this issue by pumping the flavored brine around the bone before dropping in to cure.

[Blether]

Getting brine in along the bone is a good addition to your technique, especially for hams (not so meaningful with bone-in belly, say). Who was it that posted recently (to paraphrase) "it's bacon, not birth control". You really mess it up even to the point of inedibility and you've bought a valuable lesson for what ? Twenty bucks ?

With respect to you, IndyRob, can we stop talking about osmosis as the major mechanism in brining ? We know that the whole basis of osmosis across (meat) cell walls is based on the fact salt can't pass through the cell wall. But we know that meats get salty in brine. Therefore we know that something else does that - the salty fluid seeps / soaks in through the fibres of the meat, carrying the salt & whatever else is dissolved with it.

Yes, osmosis will happen too, but it's a lesser part of the effects cooks are looking for. Osmosis *does* explain, on the other hand, why even wet-cured meat can lose fluid, overall.

That's my understanding.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Blether (log)

[Norm Matthews]

if your intent is to flavor the pork roast rather than do a true cure to turn it into a real ham, (because a week is not enough time) then have you considered injections?

[BadRabbit]

if your intent is to flavor the pork roast rather than do a true cure to turn it into a real ham, (because a week is not enough time) then have you considered injections?

A week isn't long enough to brine cure a half ham (about 5 lbs)?

I've done it plenty of times and had great results and it's absolutely not just flavored pork roast (I've just never tried other flavorings). Len Poli, Ruhlman, and about ten other authors I've read all say that you can do a full ham in 10 days or less.

And when I mentioned pumping I was referring to injections.

Edit: Corrected weight

Edited November 18, 2011 by BadRabbit (log)

[Norm Matthews]

Sorry. I didn't know you were talking about such a small ham. I didn't see where you mention a half ham. 5 lbs is smaller that what I was thinking of a fresh ham. They usually run at least 15 lbs and dry cure takes about a week per inch measured to the center.

[Blether]

I'll add that I think osmosis does play a bigger part in longer-term curing (ham) in terms of texture and density, as opposed to shorter-term brining. Osmosis still has nothing to do with how salty / seasoned the meat gets from the brine.

[Meathead]

Blether is correct. Osmosis is NOT the primary mechanism http://tinyurl.com/2vomcwl

[IndyRob]

Blether is correct. Osmosis is NOT the primary mechanism http://tinyurl.com/2vomcwl

I was just passing on what Alton said in his book. I'm not qualified to argue the point, but I will post this link where the same debates have been had about the accuracy of Wikipedia's Brining article. Interestingly, the same Cook's Illustrated experiment referenced by the AmazingRibs link is used as both a refutation and confirmation of the omosis effects. The last post is interesting as it seems to be someone with some relevant experience thinking through both sides.

But by a stroke of circular kismet, on the AmazingRibs page, if you click through the sidebar to get to 'Blonder's article', he does an interesting experiment which speaks to the original topic (how fast and far does the salt penetrate).