Best brand of knife: 2011

[dcarch]

I saw on eBay those Teflon chef knives. I was curious. I ordered one, it was only $10.00 just to see if Teflon would do anything for non-stick.

I should have known. Food sticks to a knife is not because of adhesion, it is because of atmospheric pressure. The Teflon coating didn't do any good.

However, I was pleasantly surprised that a $10.00 knife have been able to keep a very sharp edge for a very long time.

I hate all those demonstrations of paper cutting and tomato slicing. Any knife and any metal can do that when it is new. I can sharpen an aluminum knife to slice tomato just the same.

dcarch

[rotuts]

As i have mentioned, i have a number of true Granton knives, with that scalloped edge that goes down right to the blade. other scallops do not due to Im guessing the patent.

I cant say how the non-grantons work, as i dont have any. the the scallop works quite well in larger knives, and small knives that cut 'sticky' stuff, and in slicing thick items, ie a roast. other than that its not really that different in say vegetables.

these knives are thin and when sharpened carefully are a joy to use.

they are not expensive. i cant tell you the steel hardness, but I loved them before I had the edge-pro and took good care of them but they are exceptional with the edge-pro.

Edited October 10, 2011 by rotuts (log)

[HowardLi]

I never made the claim that the Wasabi was the best knife of 2011 but that it replaced the Tojiro as the value champ. It's not the best steel in the world but I challenge you to find a better knife under $50.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html

Aren't you supposed to include a "challenge accepted" graphic or something?

[HowardLi]

I saw on eBay those Teflon chef knives. I was curious. I ordered one, it was only $10.00 just to see if Teflon would do anything for non-stick.

I should have known. Food sticks to a knife is not because of adhesion, it is because of atmospheric pressure. The Teflon coating didn't do any good.

However, I was pleasantly surprised that a $10.00 knife have been able to keep a very sharp edge for a very long time.

I hate all those demonstrations of paper cutting and tomato slicing. Any knife and any metal can do that when it is new. I can sharpen an aluminum knife to slice tomato just the same.

dcarch

Yeah, if there's no air between the knife and the food, air pressure will press the food against the knife... but if the coefficient of friction is reduced, such as with a Teflon coating on the knife, then it will take less force for the food to slide off.

[patrickamory]

I'm a bit bemused, thinking of Japanese knives as an answer to jfresch's quest for a carving knife. Japan didn't eat meat till not much more than a century ago, and till today has no tradition of big lumps of meat cut up after cooking. And yet westerners are to abandon their traditions and their accomplished knifemakers to buy a carving knife from them ?

Interesting observation... but they did have a tradition of carving up human beings. Don't some of the most prestigious Japanese knife makers trace their origins to pre-Meiji Restoration sword makers?

[paulraphael]

I never made the claim that the Wasabi was the best knife of 2011 but that it replaced the Tojiro as the value champ. It's not the best steel in the world but I challenge you to find a better knife under $50.

I'll take another look at one. From my impressions they wouldn't really replace Tojiro or Togiharu, because those were both very high performance knives that just gave up a little bit in refinement and edge retention to their more expensive brethren. The Wasabis don't seem to be in the same league. Which isn't to say they're not good values. I think Forschners are also great values, but I wouldn't bring them up in a conversation about the best knife (except for their $5 paring knife, which is a favorite among some rockstar chefs because of its extreme thinness ...)

[Blether]

Interesting observation... but they did have a tradition of carving up human beings. Don't some of the most prestigious Japanese knife makers trace their origins to pre-Meiji Restoration sword makers?

Surely, which is why they're a good choice if you're looking for up-close-and-personal hunting weapons.

Seriously, though... carving cooked joints of meat is a different game. They don't cut back, do they ?

[Broken English]

Kai is a huge company with many lines of knives, including ones like Shun and Wasabi which are designed and marketed for export for Western consumers. These knives are designed to have market appeal, and to survive in the hands of people who are untrained. The Shuns use good steel, but have a fat, performance-killing edge geometry, so they don't compare with the professional knives that they pretend to be. The Wasabi knives have similar geometry, and crappy steel. I'd agree that they're still good for the money, but I wouldn't put them in the top one thousand in a thread that's about the best brand of knife available in 2011.

I know what you mean about the Shuns, they don't come back as nicely upon repeated sharpenings. They're still a decent knife though, I've had mine for over 2 years now (A Santoku, a Chef's Knife and a bread knife), and I have no real trouble with anything I've ever needed to cut.

For me, it's more the comfort that makes me rate them highly, it's astounding more companies don't use a similar handle design.

[ScoopKW]

I know what you mean about the Shuns, they don't come back as nicely upon repeated sharpenings. They're still a decent knife though, I've had mine for over 2 years now (A Santoku, a Chef's Knife and a bread knife), and I have no real trouble with anything I've ever needed to cut.

For me, it's more the comfort that makes me rate them highly, it's astounding more companies don't use a similar handle design.

I don't like metal or plastic handles. They get slippery when cutting greasy/oily things. Slippery handles lead to cut fingers. Octagonal wood handles all the way for me. Even though I pinch grip, the handle gives me stability.

[patrickamory]

Interesting observation... but they did have a tradition of carving up human beings. Don't some of the most prestigious Japanese knife makers trace their origins to pre-Meiji Restoration sword makers?

Surely, which is why they're a good choice if you're looking for up-close-and-personal hunting weapons.

Seriously, though... carving cooked joints of meat is a different game. They don't cut back, do they ?

Haha, loved your post at the link!

Agreed that it's a different game, but to me it's about the sharpness and the balance, which I assume have been preserved but in a different form for a different purpose.

All I can say is that it's night & day compared to the Wusthof Tridents that I treasured for years. And it's not just for carving meat - I use my carving knife for vegetables, fish, fruit or anything else. There is no knife I'd rather use. Totally in love with it.

[Blether]

... I use my carving knife for vegetables, fish, fruit or anything else. There is no knife I'd rather use. Totally in love with it.

It's great that you're happy with it ? What kind if carving knife do you have ? How often do you find yourself actually carving ?

Edited October 12, 2011 by Blether (log)

[patrickamory]

It's a Togiharu chef's knife. I think it's the Inox steel Santoku, 7" long. I use it for nearly everything, way more chopping than actual carving, though we do always use it to carve roast chicken.

[Blether]

Ah, the santoku (lit. "three specialties") multi-purpose knife you posted upthread.

I have two carving knives, one of 10" and one of 12". (I got an aesthetic fright when I saw the long one, and backpedalled).

"Carving knives" as far as the term makes sense to me, are long, shallow-bladed knives, often or usually without a heel. As slicing knives they'll typically have a finer edge than choppers, of course.

There's definitely value in a longer blade for cutting consistent, clean slices. And I've even come to recognise how practical the dead-straight edge on my 12" carver is, again for consistent slicing. Don't we have a design called "carving knife" for a reason ?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Blether (log)

[patrickamory]

Fair enough, I should have been more specific. I sloppily use the term carving knife to mean "big knife."

[Blether]

Hey, another way of looking at it is, if you carve something with it, it's a carving knife.

Anyway, who told you 7" is 'big' ?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Blether (log)

[patrickamory]

I have been thinking it would be nice to have a carbon-steel Sabatier, for some reason.

[dcarch]

Hey, another way of looking at it is, if you carve something with it, it's a carving knife.---

No one carves. Everyone slices.

dcarch

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have been thinking it would be nice to have a carbon-steel Sabatier, for some reason.

I have several, and I highly recommend them, but be aware that there are many French knives branded "Sabatier" (a complicated story involving two families of knife makers with the same name), and to further complicate matters, there are pre-war forgings floating around from factories in Thiers discovered in the 1960s, many of which are excellent knives, but it makes it even more ambiguous to say what constitutes a "Sabatier" knife. The ones I have are Sabatier **** with the elephant logo mostly, and I have a 12" German-style chef's knife sold under the "Sabatier Professional" brand, but I suspect this is one of the pre-war forgings like the Sabatier knives sold by Lee Valley Tools at one time.

The ones I have take a very keen edge, and the French-style chef's knives generally have shallower blades and are lighter in weight than German-style knives (there are also German-style Sabatier knives that look more like a Henckels or a Wusthof, but tend to be lighter). French-style knives usually have a cylindrical metal ferrule between the bolster and the handle, while the bolster usually butts up against the handle on German-style knives.

These knives aren't so fashionable now, so I think they are an excellent bargain. If you like the design of European knives, but want the lighter weight of European-style Japanese knives, a carbon steel Sabatier might be right for you.

I'd say the one I use most is the 8" **** Elephant French-style chef's knife--sharpest knife in the block usually. I had a 10" in this style, but the combination of light weight and length never felt comfortable to me. On the other hand the 12" German-style Sabatier Professional has a very nice feel to me, in that it's lighter and more nimble than what I'd expect a 12" Henckels or Wusthof to be, but not so light that it feels awkward to control.

[jorach]

I will chime in to mention my love of ceramic knives.

I decided to see what the hype was about on ceramic knives a few years ago. Bought a Kyocera paring knife and used it on some small jobs. Stored it in a wooden knife block, hand washed and dried, always on a butcher block cutting board if it touched anything that wasn't food: never abused at all.

Four weeks after I bought it it wasn't sharp enough to cut anything. I have sharper butter knives. I figured something was up, called Kyocera who had no interest in helping me other than offering to let me pay to have it resharpened. No thanks.

I'll stick with my steel knives which stay sharp longer than four weeks and I can sharpen myself.

[David A. Goldfarb]

And just by way of illustration my post two posts up, these are four chef's knives, top to bottom:

12" Sabatier Professional German-style

10" Wusthof Classic Wide

8" Henckels Four-Star

8" Sabatier **** Elephant carbon French-style

[paulraphael]

A recommendation I just got:

Tojiro Shiroko (white steel) gyuto: $50

And still good choices:

Fujiwara Carbon 240mm

and Fujiwara Stainless

[HowardLi]

A recommendation I just got:

Tojiro Shiroko (white steel) gyuto: $50

Link posted halfway through the thread.

[Dejah]

Don't know much "technical" stuff about knives...Just want them sharp...

I do have a 32cm Wusthof Classic - seldom used as it is so long! My kids gave it to me for Xmas. It sits in a custom-made wooden slide-in sleeve until there is a big hunk of meat to carve.

While in a Calphalon outlet in Seattle, I saw and tried out a 7" Nakiri from the Katana Series. I loved the way it felt in my hand, so I ended up buying 4 @ $78.00 with a $20.00 discount on purchase over $100.00. Each of my 3 kids got one.

Then last week, my s-i-l sent me a knife that her son loves. I was waiting for someone to wade in about the Henckel Morimot Edition: Miyabi 600S. I got the 5.5 inch and love it. I use it mainly for slicing. Tried to use it to quarter Brussel sprouts - pulling the knife towards thumb...bad mistake! I quickly noticed shreds of skin on the ball of my thumb. It was taking off the top layer of skin even tho' it barely touched the surface. It didn't cut deep though or I would have felt it.

For chopping, I have 2 cheap Chinese cleavers - one lighter and wider for vegetables and light chopping, and a heavy one for bones.

My future son-in-law used my veg cleaver to chop up a rabit - bent the blade. He straightened and "sharpened" it, and it's working ok. He bought me the heavy one so he can continue to use my kitchen.

I do have some standard restaurant-use Henckel knives that other people are allowed to use.

[paulraphael]

Four weeks after I bought it it wasn't sharp enough to cut anything. I have sharper butter knives. I figured something was up, called Kyocera who had no interest in helping me other than offering to let me pay to have it resharpened. No thanks.

I'll stick with my steel knives which stay sharp longer than four weeks and I can sharpen myself.

Yeah, and ceramic knives aren't sharp to begin with. When new they are new they are sharper than a dull steel knife, but will never be, can never be, as sharp as a well sharpened steel knife. they hold an adquate edge longer than steel can, assuming you don't break the thing. This is a selling point for some people but in general I wouldn't want one and wouldn't recommend them.

[paulraphael]

Don't know much "technical" stuff about knives...Just want them sharp...

Just a point of clarity for people new to knives ... sharpness is not a quality intrinsic to a knife. It's the product of the skills of the person sharpening it. The difference between one knife and another will be (among other things) how sharp and how thin an edge it will take, and how long it will hold that edge.

No knife is very sharp out of the box. Some manufactures provide a better factory edge than others, but none comes close to what a knife is capable of. The factory edge is 100% irrelevant. It will be gone in a couple of weeks or a couple of hours, so who cares?

High end knives often come barely sharpened. The makers know the user will have his or her own opinions on sharpening, and they don't want to waste their resources on this unimportant step.