Portland Farmers Market

[Jim Dixon]

The special Thanksgiving market will be the last chance this year to buy from your favorite growers. The market won't be on the Park Blocks, but in a parking lot a few blocks down (between SW 4th and 5th, Montgomery and Harrison). They plan on erecting tents to cover the aisles between booths, but the weather looks like it will actually be dry and unseasonably warm (if you think 55 F is warm).

I'll be selling olive oil, too. I'm out of everything except Don Alfonso, so that's all I'll have to taste. I still don't really believe that there's anybody else from Portland here (except maybe Trillium and I know what she looks like), so you alledged lurkers can prove your existence by stopping by and saying hello.

Jim

[Human Bean]

I still don't really believe that there's anybody else from Portland here...so you alledged lurkers can prove your existence by stopping by and saying hello.

Hello??? I'm not a lurker. I may be a newbie, and mainly inhabit (or perhaps inhibit) the cooking boards, but I've made a couple insignificant posts in PNW.

I don't post much here because, 1) I don't live in Seattle, and B) don't eat out much in Portland, so I don't have much to say.

As for the PNW board, I've thought about posting something about pho in Portland, but nothing I can say is really up to the demanding standards here - I can say what I like and don't, but haven't ever bothered to remember exactly why I do/n't like them. I can make better pho than any restaurant I've ever been to, but it's not surprising considering that my food cost is equal or greater than the cost of a bowl at the local restaurants.

I have to work on Saturday, but if possible, I'll try to drop by the farmers market, and maybe even buy some OO.

[mamster]

As for the PNW board, I've thought about posting something about pho in Portland, but nothing I can say is really up to the demanding standards here - I can say what I like and don't, but haven't ever bothered to remember exactly why I do/n't like them. I can make better pho than any restaurant I've ever been to, but it's not surprising considering that my food cost is equal or greater than the cost of a bowl at the local restaurants.

I have to work on Saturday, but if possible, I'll try to drop by the farmers market, and maybe even buy some OO.

I don't post much here because, 1) I don't live in Seattle, and B) don't eat out much in Portland, so I don't have much to say.

If you eat in the Pacific Northwest at all, I'm interested in what you have to say, HB. Do you cook much at home, besides pho? Where do you shop? Etc.

Have you started a homemade pho thread on cooking at any point? I'd love to hear more about that.

[David Dowell]

If you like oysters, my very strong recommendation is... Gilson Oysters.

Appearing at the Farmer's Market this weekend.

I love oysters and these are the best I have had in the US in a LONG time.

Nothing in this promotion for me... just sharing the info

[Human Bean]

If you eat in the Pacific Northwest at all, I'm interested in what you have to say, HB.

Fair enough, but this can be a tough crowd (maybe moreso the NYC axis rather than the somewhat more mellow PNW crowd) and I'm somewhat reluctant to say much without being able to back it up. Unless I make a specific effort, I tend to reduce things to like/dislike, and tend to forget the details (maybe this is true of most people), but the details are important here. For example, I can say, "Sockeye rulez, coho droolz" but can't really say why.

It's much the same with discussing pho; saying, "I can make better pho than restaurants" is admittedly bold and provocative, but I can't really back that up - it's true for me, but my experience is limited to Portland, Seattle, and a few Vietnamese friends, and I don't feel like sharing the recipe; it's taken significant time and expense, and I have the (probably absurd) notion that it may have commercial value, even though it's too expensive at the moment.

Getting even more bold and provocative, the "better pho than a restaurant" is a specific example of a general belief I have that most anyone with a certain amount of talent and motivation can cook a better meal at home than almost any restaurant except maybe the very high-end ones. It's probably an idea that's at least been mentioned somewhere among the thousands of posts here, but I don't really have the words to explain why, so I haven't really tried to discuss that. I'll probably regret mentioning it now. (Hint: food-cost and motivation/caring hold the restaurants back).

Now, what was my point here? Oh, I didn't really have one. Never mind, carry on...

Edit: made horrible run-on sentence slightly less horrible.

Edited November 21, 2002 by Human Bean (log)

[LaurieA-B]

As for the PNW board, I've thought about posting something about pho in Portland, but nothing I can say is really up to the demanding standards here...

Good heavens--every day I feel grateful that I'm on the PNW board and not one of those regional boards with demanding standards. Whenever I post on the NY board I feel like I'm walking on a swaying wooden bridge over a yawning canyon. And quicksand.

I have met many PNW regulars and without exception they are charming, kind, and down to earth. Their only standards are regarding good-tasting food. In other areas, such as pants, they have no standards at all. I look forward to meeting everyone I haven't met yet. thelastsupper, when are we getting together for dinner on Capitol Hill? girlchow, hope you make it to Seattle soon so more people can enjoy the pleasure of your company. Regarding Portland, Matthew and I are both from Portland and love hearing about it. Human Bean, I think Jim Dixon's comment was in no way a slight, but rather an attempt to draw out more fine Portland-area members like you.

We are working our way through a bottle of JDOO, the Bettini, and I highly recommend the Don Alfonso. Thanks, Jim! What other special foods will be found at the Portland Farmers Market?

Hopefully on a future visit to Portland we can meet up with egulleters there. The new wine bar Jim recommended sounded great (if we can drag ourselves away from Pambiche. I have complete faith in Jim's restaurant recommendations thanks to Pambiche). It's a little tricky because my parents, siblings, and nieces live in Portland, so our visits are family time. But I'm sure it will work out at some point.

[Schielke]

As for the PNW board, I've thought about posting something about pho in Portland, but nothing I can say is really up to the demanding standards here...

Good heavens--every day I feel grateful that I'm on the PNW board and not one of those regional boards with demanding standards. Whenever I post on the NY board I feel like I'm walking on a swaying wooden bridge over a yawning canyon. And quicksand.

I have met many PNW regulars and without exception they are charming, kind, and down to earth. Their only standards are regarding good-tasting food. In other areas, such as pants, they have no standards at all. I look forward to meeting everyone I haven't met yet. thelastsupper, when are we getting together for dinner on Capitol Hill? girlchow, hope you make it to Seattle soon so more people can enjoy the pleasure of your company. Regarding Portland, Matthew and I are both from Portland and love hearing about it. Human Bean, I think Jim Dixon's comment was in no way a slight, but rather an attempt to draw out more fine Portland-area members like you.

We are working our way through a bottle of JDOO, the Bettini, and I highly recommend the Don Alfonso. Thanks, Jim! What other special foods will be found at the Portland Farmers Market?

Hopefully on a future visit to Portland we can meet up with egulleters there. The new wine bar Jim recommended sounded great (if we can drag ourselves away from Pambiche. I have complete faith in Jim's restaurant recommendations thanks to Pambiche). It's a little tricky because my parents, siblings, and nieces live in Portland, so our visits are family time. But I'm sure it will work out at some point.

Yeah, those NYC suckas need to relax.

Hey, the reason we have the pants problem in the first place is because of my high standards about pants. I only wear the best or not at all!

Also I would say the exception to the PNW rule of charming, kind and down to earth woudl be that bastard Klink. He is a hardass!

Actually, I am all out of EVOO right now. JD what do ya have coming in the near future?

Ben

[trillium]

It's much the same with discussing pho; saying, "I can make better pho than restaurants" is admittedly bold and provocative, but I can't really back that up - it's true for me, but my experience is limited to Portland, Seattle, and a few Vietnamese friends, and I don't feel like sharing the recipe; it's taken significant time and expense, and I have the (probably absurd) notion that it may have commercial value, even though it's too expensive at the moment.

Getting even more bold and provocative, the "better pho than a restaurant" is a specific example of a general belief I have that most anyone with a certain amount of talent and motivation can cook a better meal at home than almost any restaurant except maybe the very high-end ones. It's probably an idea that's at least been mentioned somewhere among the thousands of posts here, but I don't really have the words to explain why, so I haven't really tried to discuss that. I'll probably regret mentioning it now. (Hint: food-cost and motivation/caring hold the restaurants back).

Now, what was my point here? Oh, I didn't really have one. Never mind, carry on...

Edit: made horrible run-on sentence slightly less horrible.

I'm not sure I would say anyone, but certainly many, could cook a better meal at home then almost any restaurant. In fact, I'd go so far as to include the very high-end ones. I think if someone with some experience has access to decent tools, similar ingredients and a willing workforce (someone has got to help with all that prep!) they can totally make a better meal. Of course, my belief is colored by a few prejudices about what I consider a good meal to be. It drives me crazy when people surround food with celebrity, and all the exclusivity and mystique that involves. Yes, it can be a work of art, but when a work of art involves food, it's still going to be sewage in 24 hrs. While I'm ranting, it also bugs me when people dismiss certain restaurants by saying the chef isn't a chef they just shop well. I don't think squiggling techno-color oils and sauces onto a plate and designing a room with hip colors really defines a great cook either.

As for needing to back something up, it all depends on how you phrase things...for instance, you could talk about what you think a good bowl of pho entails without needing a set of references to back yourself up. I agree that it's probably better not to bring something up if you're just going to say you don't feel like sharing the recipe, that's no fun for anyone.

regards,

trillium

[Jim Dixon]

HB

If we PNW-ers are one thing, it's nice, so sorry if my comment about "alledged lurkers" struck you the wrong way. And I'm with you that food cooked at home is usually the best.

Laurie

The flyer from the FM says that there will be a few "holiday" items at this special market...wreaths, stuffing mix from artisan bakers, etc...but I think it'll be the usual vendors, mostly farmers, with the end of the season produce. Squash, cabbage (and other cruciferous vegetables...a farmer on the coast has been bringing some amazing cauliflower that I've been roasting, natch), apples, pears, and spuds. Not sure if Gene (aka the Potato Man) will be driving over from Joseph (6 hrs one way), but he has some of the best potatoes anywhere, especially the little fingerlings called le ratte.

Could also be a good time to find some wild mushrooms. I haven't been out with my friends who hunt them lately, but we had that long dry October with a bit of rain lately, so there may be more chanterelles and oyster mushrooms popping up.

And David is right about those oysters...this will be a good chance to get a couple of dozen for Thanksgiving. I really like to build a small fire and heat them until they just open. Sitting outside on a cool fall day drinking a malty seasonal beer (Bridgeport Ebenzer is really good) and eating oysters right off the fire is something to be thankful for.

Schielke

All I have now is Don Alfonso, but I've been busy sending euros to Italy to secure some of the current harvest. The producers tell me that despite some unusual weather (dry spring, lots of rain over a short period in early summer) the olives were good and the oil tastes great. It usually takes several weeks to coordinate the producers, arrange for shipment, deal with my customs broker, etc, but I hope to have new oil from Umbria, Tuscany, and the Sorrentine Peninsula (Don Alfonso) here sometime in late December.

Marco Bettini is also shipping me a few liters by express freight, and I've been talking with Cathy Whims about doing some kind of dinner with a new oil theme. We haven't gotten specific yet because I wanted to make sure we had the oil, but as soon we work out the details I'll post them here.

Fratelli does an oil dinner every year, and while they've been good, I've always felt the focus should be on more traditional foods that really highlight the flavor of the new oil (like plain bruschetta with just garlic and oil, maybe some beans, ribollita, and things like that).

So really, stop by and say hello....

Jim

[MsRamsey]

If you eat in the Pacific Northwest at all, I'm interested in what you have to say, HB.

Fair enough, but this can be a tough crowd (maybe moreso the NYC axis rather than the somewhat more mellow PNW crowd) and I'm somewhat reluctant to say much without being able to back it up. Unless I make a specific effort, I tend to reduce things to like/dislike, and tend to forget the details (maybe this is true of most people), but the details are important here. For example, I can say, "Sockeye rulez, coho droolz" but can't really say why.

Becoming a critical thinker and expressing oneself clearly takes time and patience. So many people on eGullet have amazing language skills. They make it look easy, but for most I suspect they've had years or decades of practice. I often feel intimidated on the one hand, but on the other hand revel in the beauty of the language and hopefully learn something about communicating effectively.

I think you can try out any descriptions you care to on us and no one is going to stomp all over you. Of course, people may ask you questions for clarification, etc., which should help you to hone your skills even more.

Edited November 22, 2002 by MsRamsey (log)

[mamster]

Becoming a critical thinker and expressing oneself clearly takes time and patience.  So many people on eGullet have amazing language skills.

That is like totally true MsR y'know?

[Human Bean]

I think you can try out any descriptions you care to on us and no one is going to stomp all over you.  Of course, people may ask you questions for clarification, etc., which should help you to hone your skills even more.

The words aren't a problem, nor is analytical thinking, I had all that nailed long ago (though I'm sure that there are those that don't like my style; I don't worry about that to any great extent).

It's just that (as I mentioned above) unless I make a specific attempt to remeber the details, a simple yes/no decision tends to make it to long-term memory; the 'why' is lost. In the instance of the sockeye/coho example above, long ago, I decided that I like sockeye best. I don't dislike coho, or most of the others; but I can't quite remember why I prefer sockeye. It just tastes better to me, and I haven't had either one recently (shame!) to refresh my memory. I can definitely say that any farmed variety is quite bland-tasting compared to any wild variety though; that's an easy one, and I suspect the reason is also obvious: wild fish eat a variety of 'real' food that gives extra character to the meat; farmed fish eat Purina salmon chow.

I think I'm in the mood for a salmon tasting; pity that it's not on sale at the moment.

And BTW, JD: No offense taken by your remark about lurkers; my apologies if I gave that impression.

Edited November 22, 2002 by Human Bean (log)

[MsRamsey]

Becoming a critical thinker and expressing oneself clearly takes time and patience.  So many people on eGullet have amazing language skills.

That is like totally true MsR y'know?

Like, what's your damage, Heather?

[Toby]

I can definitely say that any farmed variety is quite bland-tasting compared to any wild variety though; that's an easy one, and I suspect the reason is also obvious: wild fish eat a variety of 'real' food that gives extra character to the meat; farmed fish eat Purina salmon chow.

See, you just did it. I'd never thought about food on the level you're talking about either; I found I just had to stop and think a little deeper about how something tasted, or why I liked/didn't like a food, or thought a dish worked/didn't worked. You don't have to get too complicated about it, either.

[mamster]

I like sockeye best, too, although I find it's easier to get the skin crispy with king because the fish is thicker and cooks more slowly. And while I'll take wild over farmed whenever possible, I don't dislike farmed salmon by any means--it's still better than much of the rest of what you find at a typical grocery fish counter, for example.

[Jim Dixon]

HB and Trillium...good to see you both Saturday

It was a madhouse...by the time I got away from my stand at around noon to buy some vegetables, everything was gone but a few pumpkins. But we did sell a lot of olive oil, and that makes it easier to bring in more and keep my prices reasonable. So thanks to anyone else who came by and bought a bottle or two.

Jim

[trillium]

HB and Trillium...good to see you both Saturday

It was a madhouse...by the time I got away from my stand at around noon to buy some vegetables, everything was gone but a few pumpkins. But we did sell a lot of olive oil, and that makes it easier to bring in more and keep my prices reasonable. So thanks to anyone else who came by and bought a bottle or two.

Jim

It was nice to see you too...most of the veggies were pretty sad anyway, so you didn't miss that much. We bought some potatoes, leeks, spinach and kale and that was it. When we left at 10 things already looked pretty stripped. The big score was finding someone selling organic dried beans that they'd grown this summer. I really moan about the quality of dried beans, good ones make such a difference, so we were pretty stoked. We bought borlottis, cranberries, sophie, coco blan, flagolet and good ol' pinto. The black beans sold out while we were standing there waiting. They were also selling all sorts of pumpkins I'd never seen before, jade colored ones and red ones growing what looked like barnacles. I have trouble with squash so I was only tempted for a moment.

I thought the planning that went into that market was very poor. I hate being pushed around at 9 o'clock in the morning by monster baby carriages with no where to run. I don't understand why the city would advertise something so heavily and then hold it in such a small area. Quentin was guessing that the market doesn't make as much money as I think it does because not everyone goes as crazy as we do, which is basically to haul off nearly more than we can carry onto the bus.

regards,

trillium

[Human Bean]

Yes, it was nice to meet JD and get some great OO. But the place WAS a madhouse; I didn't buy anything else. There were some fresh chanterelles that looked tempting, but I couldn't justify the expense.

[Jim Dixon]

I wish I could've made it for those beans...I grew cannellini last summer, and I couldn't believe I forgot to plant some this year..d'oh!

This was the first year for this special market, so I guess I can cut the market mgmt a little slack. But it wasn't very well organized. I had folks walking through the back of our booth all day because the corner entry was blocked by another vendor.

The founder and long-time president of the board just stepped down, and I had a conversation with the incoming pres. that made me think some changes may be coming, at least in terms of my own participation. Currently I can only sell olive oil on special festival days (because it's imported and I don't sell anything else...if I teamed up with a baker or something similar I'd be legit). Other board members and many vendors have told me they'd support a little loosening of the vendor rules, but that a hard-core group wants to keep a "local only" flavor.

I don't have a problem with that...I spend a lot of money at the market and go through a protracted withdrawal every winter. But I do think there's room for products (like, of course, olive oil) that compliment the local stuff without competing. And I don't think a national chain like Il Fornaio should be selling bread when we have so many other good bakers here.

But even with all its problems, I still like the market and will be there next year. For the winter, I'll be buying most of our produce from Big City Produce (just off N Mississippi on Sumner, a block north of Alberta near Jefferson HS). Not just because it's owned by a good friend, but because they have q nice selection and good prices (and the cafe inside is good, too).

Jim