Egg Ganache

[mostlylana]

I had always wanted to try Wybauw's egg ganache with orange recipe but was hesitant due to the eggs (p. 132 Fine Chocolates / Great Experience). When I did the course with him in Chicago I asked him about the shelf life of egg ganache. He didn't really understand why I was singling out this type of ganache - his response focused on water activity. When I asked if the eggs made any difference to shelf life he said 'no'.

In Greweling's book, he states: "due to the potential for food-borne illness when an egg ganache is mishandled, formulas for egg ganache are not included in this work."

In the Callebaut advanced/expert course I took in Montreal with Derrick Tu Tan Pho, we made an egg ganache. Basically it was a lemon curd made in the Thermomix and this was added to white chocolate. What I liked so much about the egg ganache is the fact that flavours can be enhanced due to less chocolate needing to be added to make the ganache firm enough to slab. We added less white chocolate than we would have for a cream ganache.

So I'm pretty much OK with the idea of egg ganache when an acidic ingredient is involved to reduce pH (eg. lemons) but I'm still hesitant in other cases. Can someone help me with the science behind the shelf life of these egg ganache and what Greweling means by 'mishandling'?

I really would like to try a few other egg ganache recipes if I'm not going to kill anyone in the process!

[Kerry Beal]

I think it's that whole non pasturized egg thing - as I recall they are uncooked in Wybauw's recipes. When I want egg flavour without the uncooked eggs, I use either Birds or Harry Hornes custard pudding powder.

I like the idea of a curd with chocolate added.

[beacheschef]

I wondered about the shelf life of my pomegranate-white chocolate center that I made last weekend for a charity event.

I made the pomegranate curd recipe from the pom. curd thread post, adding curd to both white and semisweet chocolate to get flavors I liked. Pomegranates aren't too acidic, but the recipe has lemon juice in it and I figured the chocolates would be OK for a short period of time.

So - what sort of shelf-life can I expect? Is it any different than a cream-based ganache? I have a few pieces sitting around for a test in 2 weeks.

[mostlylana]

As Kerry said, Wybauw does have a recipe that uses raw eggs. I would never go there myself. The recipe I referred to - the Egg Ganache with orange - uses eggs cooked as a custard to 80C. This is what I intend to do but I wouldn't always be using acidic ingredients and was wondering about the implications of this. When I asked Wybauw he didn't make any distinction between an egg ganache and a cream based ganache. When I asked him specifically if the eggs made a difference to shelf life he said no - and again referred back to the aW of the recipe.

I don't know why I can't just accept that!

Can you keep me posted on the shelf life of your pom curd?

I'll let you know if I get any other info on the subject.

[Lior]

I think that it cannot be the same shelf life! I read somewhere that Kee's creme brulee is with egg and has a 2 day shelf life if even that. I guess it depends what else is in the recipe but egg is egg and scary to play around with! Since the pasteurized egg post, I pasteurize at home any egg that isn't going to be cooked well.

How does the pom curd/ganache taste? I am Curious.

[mostlylana]

I think the reason the Kee's creme brulee has no shelf life is because it is not a ganache. It is just creme brulee in a molded chocolate. I think the issue there is available water not so much the eggs in the creme brulee...

[Lior]

makes sense. I have never tasted her legendary creme brule-have you? Geerts also has egg ganache recipes-want me to look at them?

[Kerry Beal]

I've got egg liquor that seems to last pretty much forever - and it contains raw eggs. Of course also a whole lot of booze - more than the magic 17%.

[beacheschef]

Can you keep me posted on the shelf life of your pom curd?

Absolutely.

[beacheschef]

Pomegranate Curd tastes pretty great - a bit tart. Combined with either white or dark chocolate (my favorite) - the flavor is wonderful.

I cook the curd until it reaches about 170 degrees F and add a small amount of gelatin to hold shape.

[mostlylana]

That Pomegranite curd sounds amazing. I was looking at that thread too and want to try it one of these days.

Ilana, that would be great if you could take a look at his egg ganache recipes (I really must get that book!). What I'm most curious about is whether or not the pH needs to be adjusted on this type of ganache. Can you look and see if he has any regular types like vanilla or something like that that doesn't use acidic ingredients? Thanks!

I also posed this question on The Chocolate Life as there are scientifically minded participants there. A couple of people mentioned the bacteria on the egg shell and the need to take precautions with that. Clay Gordon suggested cleaning the egg shell as well as hands with an alcohol-based disinfectant. He stated that when the alcohol has evaporated you will have achieved a 99.99% kill rate of the bacteria. I thought that was a fabulous idea.

[Mette]

Personally, the idea of an egg ganache is a bit off putting, but why not just use pasteurised yolks, seeing as you are making custard anyway. I expect that the caution is around salmonella and other nasties sometimes present in raw eggs.

[Lior]

1: marzipan and then an egg brandy which has egg yolks.1 tin of milk (wow I am sure we all know how much and all the details here!), sugar alcohol brandy vanilla. Let me know if you want the exact.

2:cream,egg yolks,white choc and cointreau or maraschino. Let me know if ur interested.

3. egg yolks, sugar, orange juice,cream butter and milk choc

4.cream,egg yolks,white choc banana compound, glucose

5. cream,egg yolk,milk choc, walnuts,vanilla and glucose

lemme know!

does anyone kow how to use real fruit instead of compound??

[Amy D.]

Obviously I can see shelf life issues with raw eggs but I would have thought that as long as the egg is cooked (which it surely will be if heating the custard to 80C?) then there shouldn't be a problem, and as such would negate the need to pasturise the eggs (but you could always do so just to be sure).

I think it's more about getting over the enforced mind set that all eggs are potentionally bad (something i've had to overcome recently whilst deciding whther or not to use a Swiss Meringue Buttercream where the eggs had been heated to above pasturising point at a family gathering, and yet I didn't have similar concerns regarding the lime curd I'd made, nor the remains of last year's christmas cake both of which also contain egg - the only difference is that having egg in buttercream is a new concept to me so i ended up really deliberating over it.)

though i'm sure somebody will warn that i've got the wrong message and we should all be more egg smart,, or something along those lines

[mostlylana]

Well I'm feeling much better about the egg ganache. I guess Wybauw DOES know what he is talking about! He is 'Mr. Shelf Life' after all. I was more concerned to know if there were any restrictions on this type of ganache - ie. a low pH or something of the sort.

Thanks so much for posting the Geert recipes Ilana. It looks like #4 and #5 don't have any acid ingredients in them at all. For whatever reason, whenever I saw an egg ganache it always had lemons or oranges etc. Maybe that's because those set up better as a curd?? Can you give more details on those recipes Ilana - amounts?

As for using real fruit instead of fruit compound, you pretty much have to go about it a different way. I don't use compounds but usually reduce the fruit A LOT and add it to a butter based ganache using some milk chocolate to add creaminess. But if you want to do a banana ganache (#4) I would caramelize the banana first - it's one of those ingredients (like pumpkin) that I wouldn't trust 'as is' for shelf life. Raspberries are more acidic so they can be reduced and used as is.

[Rajala]

I'm currently experimenting with a crème brûlée inspired molded bonbon and I am really curious about the egg part. It seems like it's mainly about microorganisms that can come with it rather than anything else? I was thinking of adding some pasteurized egg yolks to a white chocolate butter ganache. But it's very little information about this when I search for it. I realize that I bump an extremely old thread here, but interesting if Wybauw said that it is about water activity in the end, no matter what. Maybe it is safe in the end. From my understanding, eggs are treated a lot differently in Europe compared to North America (at least the US), could be a reason why it's not a common thing as well.

 

Anyone else currently reading the forum that have any more insights?

 

What an experience to have met him by the way!

[Kerry Beal]

Adding pasteurized yolks should be fine (risk of salmonella gone)  - just watch the water activity - that's the important thing. 

[Rajala]

6 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Adding pasteurized yolks should be fine (risk of salmonella gone)  - just watch the water activity - that's the important thing. 

 

Thanks for the reply. I'll test it out and see how it tastes then.

[Rajala]

AW measured at 0.7093. So we're good!

[Kerry Beal]

7 hours ago, Rajala said:

AW measured at 0.7093. So we're good!

And the taste?

[Rajala]

7 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

And the taste?

 

It's good, better than without I believe, and the vanilla fits very good. I feel like yolks helps to offset the taste of butter a bit as well. I think I might try to add some more yolks with the next attempt - should be room to add some more water with that AW. Just because why not?