Frozen Veal Bones

[deltadoc]

Typically, I've taken these 44lb boxes of New Zealand frozen veal bones and made a place in my refrigerator to thaw. Messy, and takes at least a week and a half before they thaw, and they take up a LOT of space!

So I had a new thought, and not having ever done it this way before, I thought I'd ask if there is any reason I shouldn't just put the bones into my large pans (I do about 22 lbs of bones divided into 2 large pans 11 lbs each) and start browning them before I thaw them?

I'm just wondering if the "thaw" that will occur and collect in the pans doing it this way, would some how alter the browning process, or alter the taste somehow. I usually brown my mirepoix in the pans after roasting all 44 lbs (that's 11 lbs in each pan twice). I get a lot of "goodies" in the bottom of the pans, and the mirepoix browns nicely in this bone fat residue.

Opinions please?

PS: For those who haven't guessed, I'm making veal stock to can, and to make Espagnole sauce as a prelude to making demi-glace ala Escoffier out of the rest.

Tx,

doc

Edited January 6, 2009 by deltadoc (log)

[Magictofu]

I have seen Giovanni Apollo (a chef from Montreal) making brown stock from frozen bones and vegetables without browning them on a French-Canadian TV show. He argued that his technique allows for the development of a better brown stock with less of that bitter taste found in traditional brown stock.

The recipe, in French, can be found here.

Step 1: put frozen bones in extremely cold water in a pot, slowly bring to a gentle boil, simmer for 20 minutes.

Step 2: put frozen vegetables in stock pot to create a "thermal shock", bring back slowly to a simmer and simmer for another 20 minutes.

Step 3: Add ice (about 20% of total content of stock pot), to create another thermal shock, bring back slowly to a simmer and simmer for another 20 minutes.

Step 4, repeat step 3 (using either ice or, better, frozen stock using similar quantities.

Stock should be done at this point and can be reduced.

The whole idea was to create a series of thermal shocks to achieve the right color and taste. In the TV show, the chef used liquid nitrogen instead of ice for the 3rd step but said ice works as well to create the necessary thermal shock.

I'm not sure I understand the process very well (I don't undestand how creating thermal shocks can produce a brown stock) but the final stock looked decent on TV and the chef is well known locally.

Your large supply of bones could be used to test this technique. I would be curious to hear about the results.

[paulraphael]

I don't thoroughly thaw my bones, but I have them cut into very small sections, which speeds both thawing and extraction.

I rinse them in cool water and let them sit out in roasting pans while the oven preheats. By the time they go in they seem thawed enough. If there's any difference in the final product from doing it this way, I haven't noticed.

Magictofu, I don't understand that chef's method. First, do I understand correctly that the bones aren't browned? If that's the case then this is technically a white stock, not a brown stock.

I'm also not sure what "bitter" flavors the method is avoiding, exept ones that could be introduced by burning the pan drippings during sloppy roasting.

The more conventional way to make a white stock from bones is to just blanch the bones first. This removes stray proteins from the surface that tend to disolve in very small particles and cloud the stock. The roasting step eliminates the need for this when making a brown stock.

[Peter the eater]

Wouldn't plunging frozen bones into hot water have an effect similar to adding ice to a simmering veal stock "to break the bones" the old country way?

[Magictofu]

Paul, I don't really understand the technique either... I am actually quite puzzled by it.

The bones are not browned. According to Giovanni Apollo, the thermal shocks are what produces the brown stock in the end... without it, you would get a white stock. I don't know if it was a TV trick but the stock did seem to darken considerably with each "thermal shocks".

I think the bitter flavour comes from the inevitable burnt bits that are found on roasted bones. I did mess a few of my stock by over-roasting bones.

[Kerry Beal]

I wonder if the thermal shocks somehow release the bone marrow into the stock - you'd get darkening of the stock due to the blood.

[Magictofu]

I did search the internet a little bit to find more information... so far I only found this (in French):

http://www.hrimag.com/spip.php?article1569

There is a sentence at the end suggesting that the chef is in the process of developing a revolutionary veal stock recipe...

I have no idea if this works... it seems quite counterintuitive... but again, he is a well respected chef in Montreal.

[paulraphael]

Wouldn't plunging frozen bones into hot water have an effect similar to adding ice to a simmering veal stock "to break the bones" the old country way?

←

I'd be hesitant to try that ... hot water added to bones/meat, or vice versa, tends to disperse tiny particles of protein and cloud the stock.

[Magictofu]

Deltadoc, I am not sure about veal stock but I did brown chicken and duck bones when initially frozen without problems.

[Peter the eater]

I wonder if the thermal shocks somehow release the bone marrow into the stock - you'd get darkening of the stock due to the blood.

←

That's the theory behind "breaking the bones" the old country way, as I understand it. The lore says there's an audible "crack" when the ice goes in, of course I also hear a crack when the cubes enter my gin & tonic. Personally, I can only reflect on veal stock for so long. Hot water + bones = good.

[Magictofu]

I wonder if the thermal shocks somehow release the bone marrow into the stock - you'd get darkening of the stock due to the blood.

←

That's the theory behind "breaking the bones" the old country way, as I understand it. The lore says there's an audible "crack" when the ice goes in, of course I also hear a crack when the cubes enter my gin & tonic. Personally, I can only reflect on veal stock for so long. Hot water + bones = good.

←

I think the problem with putting frozen bones in hot stock is that you will instantly 'cook' the outside of the bone and release those particle Paul talked about. I might be wrong but not only will this cloud the stock but it might prevent flavour extraction... I think I'm due to read McGee again.