What is a restaurant trying to ‘say’ to us?

[Tonyfinch]

I don't understand what the big deal is with admitting that there are certain people who are gifted at these things, and that those people shape taste and the market.

I don't disagree with that. Where we appear to disagree is how many of these "certain people" there are, and whether they can be said to form some kind of culturally unified group-an "elite".

But on the topic. I think the best restaurants leave the punter with the impression that they love what they are doing,and that they wish to communicate that love to you. They really appear to care about your experience in their establishment. Its really that simple.And it can be done in any eating place from a 3 star Michelin to a roadside caff. It is "service" in the broadest sense of the term and it can be assessed in a myriad of ways.

[macrosan]

Macrosan...would love to know what you thought my place was " trying to say"...if you feel comfortable discussing it here.

Oh yeah, BD, that's an easy one

Margot's is trying to say Be yourself, be comfortable, and have great food while you're at it. Margot's, I think, doesn't have a predefined style of its own, it has many styles. My guess is that if you ask ten different customers what style of restaurant it is, you'd get at least five different answers. People who arrive in jackets and ties will have a quiet, formal experience, a birthday aprty of youngsters will have a buzzy, loud experience, people who want to be entertained will ahve an entertaining experience.

I think what you have created is the ultimate egalitarian experience in fine food. Very clever and yes, I do think that baseball cap has a lot to do with it.

Did I get it right ?

[Suzanne F]

What a relief that this thread has returned to its original basis: What is a restaurant trying to "say" to us? Thank you, macrosan (and Basildog).

The problem with most restaurants is that they convey no coherent, intended message at all. They're just places to eat. In order to convey a message, you first need to have a message -- and then you need to take steps to convey it. The only message that spontaneously comes into being and conveys itself without assistance is: "We don't give a damn." Any other message, you've got to work on it. It needs to be wrapped up in the decor, the menu wording needs to support it, the reservationists and hosts need to be on board with it, and of course the kitchen and waitstaff need to believe in it. If you're in some rural European place where every restaurant comes from the same mold, this is a lot easier to achieve than it is in a place like New York City the world capital of heterogeneousness. Also there is the problem of a disconnect between promise and delivery, where a restaurant telegraphs one message but provides a different experience than expected.

The problem with most customers is that, in the rare instance when they find themselves in a restaurant with a message, they refuse to get the message. This leads to many an unsatisfying meal wherein the customer's expectations run up against the limits of the restaurant's vision. The reason restaurants like Gramercy Tavern are so successful is that they are highly adaptable to customer preferences, which is to say the message they send is, "Whatever you want, we're here to give you."

Once again, FG has eloquently stated the problem. But it can be summed up in just one word: CONCEPT. Every restaurant should have a unified concept, out of which grows everything else: the menu content, the decor, the style and performance of service, EVERYTHING right down to the toilet paper. If the concept is not clear (to the people behind the place OR to the customers), or if not all elements contribute to it, forget it.

As much as we may hate chain restaurants, the successful ones are successful because their concepts are clear to everyone. Even at different ends of the spectrum, McDonald's and Morton's of Chicago share a concept: We are a safe haven; you can count on us to offer you the identical experience no matter where you are.

Many years ago, I worked at an Italian restaurant. The food was terrific, service good, prices reasonable, decor decent enough for what the place was. But there was one problem (at least to my mind): the basic concept was fuzzy: was this a bakery/deli-type restaurant, as it appeared to be at lunchtime (salad/sandwich/beverage display cases and all)? or a casual, family-welcoming neighborhood restaurant? or a trendy destination restaurant, as the all others in that restaurant group were at the time? No one seemed to know, neither internally (they kept making changes) nor externally (customers who expected a high-class experience were disappointed, as were others who expected a quick-cheap-and-totally-casual experience). It was a shame -- the place closed in about a year and a half, after having tried unsuccessfully to meld everything into several different concepts.

Restaurants speak to us through their concepts. If they mumble, they may lose us. If they say something to us clearly, something that we want to hear, we will return.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I didn't really bite at Fat Guy's "lack of concept" point, but since Suzanne sussed it out to such an extent I might as well. I disagree wholeheartedly with you guys. I think every restaurant makes some type of statement. And the succesful ones make a concise statement that is coherent and has meaning to people. I don't think I ever sit down in a restaurant where I don't ask the questions of, what is this derivitive of, where did the chef source his inspiration, and what is it that he is trying to say about the food and the way we eat it? In fact the thing that most often turns me off a place is their lack of an interesting message. Just read my initial reviews of Craft if you want to see a good example of a diner being confused about what a restaurant is trying to say, and how my opinion of it changed when it was presented to me in a different form.

You see I don't think that restaurants are much different then other items where creativity and fashion come into play. There will always be people who are eager to experience a variation on a black cocktail dress, or a nice sofa, or a plate of mashed potatoes. Those are all things that get improved with time (which is what makes them timeless .) And if you are a fan of fasihon, furniture or cooking and understand their evolution, I don't see how you experience those things without seeing them as part of a long line of creativity? In fact what restaurant doesn't make a statement? Even if it's a small, superficial and ineffectual one?

[Basildog]

Thanks Macrosan...yes Baseball Caps are very important

[macrosan]

I think every restaurant makes some type of statement. And the succesful ones make a concise statement that is coherent and has meaning to people.  I don't think I ever sit down in a restaurant where I don't ask the questions of, what is this derivitive of, where did the chef source his inspiration, and what is it that he is trying to say about the food and the way we eat it?

That's an interesting and fundamental statement, Steve. As I've said before, my primary consideration and thought when I sit down in a restaurant is that I want to enjoy a good meal. At a secondary level, I might well get interested in the cooking method and ingredients, and somewhere way down the line I might like to know something about the background, culture and intentions of the chef.

What that shows is that cuisine can be enjoyed and appreciated in many different ways by a wide variety of people. There's no right or wrong, it's whatever turns you on

[Steve Plotnicki]

Macrosan - I am surprised you find that statement interesting. Maybe because of being in the media business, I am trained to look at everything from that vantage point. That's what you do all day long. Figure out why. And not that I am expert in every field, but every field I have ever taken an interest in has a way to study why certain things are prominent. What I should do is to start a thread about why restaurants work so we can list the reasons out.

[macrosan]

Macrosan - I am surprised you find that statement interesting.

Let's be quite clear about this - I find the strangest things interesting, like the shapes you can make out of a portion of mashed potato, and why the water always circulates in the same direction (in each hemisphere) when it runs out of the sink, and who really wrote the Trumpet Voluntary.

So I wouldn't want you to think that piquing my interest was any sort of endorsement .... not that I thought that likely

[Wilfrid]

And not that I am expert in every field...

[Wilfrid]

Just catching up, let me observe, as someone who has also worked in the music business, that those people who are so good at picking 'hits' - and they certainly exist - are, much of the time at any rate, identifying product which will sell in large quantities to a young audience with disposable income. The last thing they are doing is identifying high quality music, or even anything they would listen to at home. One of the finest producers I ever saw at work would judge whether he had cut a hit single by playing the track back over a really smalll, lousy speaker. This would tell him how it would sound over a cheap radio. This had nothing to do with refined connoisseurship, although he had a hell of a knack.

[Peter B Wolf]

To quote Steve P. :...... " Maybe because of being in the media business, I am trained to look at everything from that vantage point."......

Let me quote Thomas Babington, Lord Macaulay :

"The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm." -

[Steve Plotnicki]

The last thing they are doing is identifying high quality music, or even anything they would listen to at home.

It depends on who you are talking about. People who work at labels that are interested in the music they release being artistic as well as successful are indentifying high quality music. Someone identifys the Cesare Evorias of the world, or even the REM's before they become popular. If you were to look at how many people really make decisions that shape the market, I would bet you it is probably not much more then 300 people in the first instance, and then a few thousand in the next tranch. What is decieving about it is how fungable those few thousand people are with certain people dropping out or being included on a daily basis.

[Wilfrid]

Clearly I'm not talking about independent labels, let alone classical or jazz labels. I am talking about the mainstream. I am talking about the people looking for the new Back Street Kids, of whatever. Where the hit records mostly come from.