Great British Menu 3

[LizzyWizzy]

It has just pained me to see Anthony loose.

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Could you tell me how adey,or am i being totally unreasonable?

[adey73]

Let's drop the North/South qualifications shall we, the Eighties are over .

Haworth's work is the foundation of my food repoitoire and has done more to progress my region than anyone, Heathcote definitely included, that I know of.

And though I dislike the broadcast persona (but hey he's a man of the kitchen not some daytime Ainsley) , have not tasted that food, Anthony's food and philosophy exemplified what I thought the competition was about.

I didn't think I'd say this before watching the regional final, but I wish the younger man won.

(hope no one poisons my ferrets tonight after reading this )

Edited April 19, 2008 by adey73 (log)

[Champagne Sadie]

It was my thinking when this series initially started that Leith and Peyton were totally the wrong judges for this type of food. You only have to look at the restaurants they run/own/execute. Staid, safe, boring, not heard of etc....

"Hot Pot" Salad, and a rather grusome looking cheese curd tart for "modern" British cuisine?

I think I'll give the rest of the series a miss.

[PhilD]

What an outrage!!!!!

I really respect nigel hawarth as a chef and his food is great, but how did he win tonight?

Modern British, not really, was it not obvious from the first comments he was going to win?

Anthony looked gutted and rightly so,  Matthew Fort, probably the most respected critic in the trade, knows what he is talking about, but the others ?

What right does Oliver Peyton have to judge this competition when one of his restaurants has been fined for mice infestation? does he really know what he is talking about?

Sorry for my rant but it just really pissed me off tonight, excuse the language,

as mentioned before in this thread, the judges obviously knew who was who and it was clearly rigged

I wonder what food the top chefs attending the dinner would rather eat?

Obviously i was not there to taste but............

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Why isn't Nigels food "modern british"...? OK it is different from Anthony's but Anthony's is simply one derivation of modern in a broad range of options. Dining in restaurants would be so boring if there was such a narrow definition.

I really liked the look of both chef's work and it was good to see the different interpretation of the brief. Anthony's cooking pushes the boundaries, is experimental, and risky. Whilst Nigel's seems to be more reflective, focussed on getting to the core of the dish i.e. deconstructing classics and reinterpreting them for the modern taste (my mother never made hotpot like that).

Compare and contrast that to Heston, yes he pushes the boundaries and is experimental but he also deconstructs dishes and reinterprets them in a pared back simple way. For example my last meal at The Fat Duck had the spectacular, cutting edge dishes like "Sound of the Sea," and innovative flavour combinations like "Salmon Poached in Liquorice" similar in many respects to Anthony's style of cooking. But also on the same menu I had a simple "Roast Foie Gras" with an almond and a cherry gel as accompaniments - few ingredients, lots of white space on the plate, and great technique to focus on three core flavours. And on the same menu a "Ballontine of Anjou Pigeon" with deconstructed black pudding, and baby turnips and onions - again a focus on the flavour of some outstanding core ingredients - for me, two dishes that seem firmly in Nigel's territory.

Is the judging poor? I wouldn't agree. The three judges do seem to hold differing opinions and seem to have a fairly robust debate. They loved Anthony's meat course, but found fault with some of his other dishes (the tobacco was a taste to far). They really enjoyed Nigel's cod and tripe (is that traditional cooking?). They seemed to equally dislike both desserts. To me it seemed quite balanced criticism,

My guess is that the guests who eventually eat this meal will enjoy good food. Be it Anthony's or Nigel's style. After all didn't Anthony really like some of Nigel's food?

OK it isn't perfect TV, but it is a damm site better than a lot of the alternatives, and it is good to see serious cooking on TV. Give me the flawed GBM rather than another Ramsay. The production team did a good job with the "anthony looked really gutted" sequence. Was it me or were they using the same shot over and over again for his reaction. I hope these tricky TV people don't edit this for dramatic effect...maybe we should ring OFCOM, they must launch an inquiry...!

Edited April 19, 2008 by PhilD (log)

[Andy Lynes]

Don't ask me how I know this (and I honestly didn't know who won the Sat Bains/Glynn Purnell round in advance) but the chefs interviewed by olive (lower case "o") aren't all the winners. And it wasn't anyone at olive that told me that by the way.

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But that means the Olive Magazine theory of the published winners is wrong.

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I refer the honourable gentlemen to my earlier reply.

[RDB]

I have said this before, Nigel always delivers on taste. In all the years I have eaten at Northcote, the food has always tasted top notch. On the other hand the times I have dined at Anthony's I have found the food really out there, cutting edge and visually exciting, but to be honest it has not always delivered on the taste front. I suppose if something looks so good you expect it to taste as good, when it doesn't it becomes a bit of a let down, as opposed to it not looking so good but tasting fantastic. Compared to Sat Bains, Simon Rogan, Claude Bosi, Glynn Purnell, Paul Kitching, Heston et al, who I feel get the balance of cutting edge and modern, with perfectly matched taste, I do not feel Anthony's food has struck that balance yet. Maybe Michelin see it the same? This came across during the programme, were he was more concerned with presentation and show, as opposed to taste, for example, the obsessive rigidity he displayed towards his smoke bombs.*

I think it is hard to gauge what the judges are looking for as they are never consistent on what their criteria is. Matthew was right about Oliver really being a meat and two vegs man. Of course he is, it is within his Irish genes.

* Awaits an onslaught from Gary Marshall and the Anthony's Liberation Front :

[muichoi]

I'll never understand why anyone would want food to be 'cutting edge'. It's like wanting a bottle of burgundy to be 'cutting edge'. Perfection will do for me!

[Gary Marshall]

This came across during the programme, were he was more concerned with presentation and show, as opposed to taste, for example, the obsessive rigidity he displayed towards his smoke bombs.*

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more concerned with presentation than taste?

tony obviously takes presentation seriously but at the expense of taste?

anyway i went to northcote once and it was crap, i do use nigel's hotpot recipe though.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Gary Marshall (log)

[RedRum]

i think antony misunderstood "modern" with "inedible"... sorry but some of the things he did were inedible, all judges said so. olive oil ice cream with white chocolate? awful... fish with mozarella balloons? yuk!

you have to be able to eat what you cook, and from what I saw, 3 out of 4 of his dishes, apart from his main were just inedible. now.. I will be the first one to support those plonkers that are the judges in GBM, but sorry.. some things just dont go

also antony came out very annoyingly arrogant and snooty...

Edited April 22, 2008 by RedRum (log)

[Gary Marshall]

i've eaten most of those dishes including the olive oil dessert and can assure you they are very edible indeed.

being arrogant has hardly held gordon ramsay back has it?

[Andy Lynes]

Ramsay's jaw dropping arrogance (as displayed during the recent US series of Kitchen Nightmares in particular) is at least ameliorated by a healthy dose of michevious humour and undeniable charisma.

[RedRum]

i think antony misunderstood "modern" with "inedible"... sorry but some of the things he did were inedible, all judges said so. olive oil ice cream with white chocolate? awful... fish with mozarella balloons? yuk!

you have to be able to eat what you cook, and from what I saw, 3 out of 4 of his dishes, apart from his main were just inedible. now.. I will be the first one to support those plonkers that are the judges in GBM, but sorry.. some things just dont go

also antony came out very annoyingly arrogant and snooty...

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so my dear friend Gary I think you just misunderstood "edible" with "tasty"...

[RedRum]

Ramsay's jaw dropping arrogance (as displayed during the recent US series of  Kitchen Nightmares in particular) is at least ameliorated by a healthy dose of michevious humour and undeniable charisma.

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in Antony's defense he did say "this dish is pukka" and then made a joke about sounding like Jamie Oliver... I peed myself a little laughing with this insightful joke

[Gary Marshall]

i think antony misunderstood "modern" with "inedible"... sorry but some of the things he did were inedible, all judges said so. olive oil ice cream with white chocolate? awful... fish with mozarella balloons? yuk!

you have to be able to eat what you cook, and from what I saw, 3 out of 4 of his dishes, apart from his main were just inedible. now.. I will be the first one to support those plonkers that are the judges in GBM, but sorry.. some things just dont go

also antony came out very annoyingly arrogant and snooty...

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so my dear friend Gary I think you just misunderstood "edible" with "tasty"...

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did i ? sorry, the crushing inanity of the debate must finally have got to me.

[RedRum]

either that or you have a cardboard palate

[olicollett]

What a great debate. Dish A sounds awful, you must have a bad palate if you disagree with the judges.

If people didn't try "different" or "unusual" combinations then cooking wouldn't go anywhere.

[CalumC]

What a great debate.  Dish A sounds awful, you must have a bad palate if you disagree with the judges. 

If people didn't try "different" or "unusual" combinations then cooking wouldn't go anywhere.

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Here here. Its not like hes even just coming up with these ideas from nowhere, he discussed the fact that there is an aroma compound from rhubard akin to tobacco, so why not try it. Its modern and pretty edgy cooking, so its inevitable that some people are going to react negatively.

As for olive and chocolate, the two are becoming quite a frequent combo. One i know is becoming fairly popular is le champignon sauvage's chocolate and black olive tart and its various recent offshoots.

[RedRum]

again, the strange combination thing has been done during the nouvelle cuisine years. now chefs use common volatile compounds between ingredients to justify wacky combinations and call it molecular gastronomy. There is a reason why Adria and El Bulli have the fame they do. yeah, he will throw in the occassional weird combination, but most of his dishes are masterful variations of classic catalan cuisine and tapas. The taste profiles he uses are common, familiar, but he plays with textures and flavour sequences. Heston does the same with traditional british flavours, don't forget his signature dish is the egg and bacon ice cream.

I appreciate the effort to be edgy and innovative, but some things simply cannot taste well together and no chef's screwed up palate or effort to be edgy and groundbreaking can change that. (antony's aside and more as a general observation)

[Prawncrackers]

Here here. Its not like hes even just coming up with these ideas from nowhere, he discussed the fact that there is an aroma compound from rhubard akin to tobacco, so why not try it. Its modern and pretty edgy cooking, so its inevitable that some people are going to react negatively.

As for olive and chocolate, the two are becoming quite a frequent combo. One i know is becoming fairly popular is le champignon sauvage's chocolate and black olive tart and its various recent offshoots.

Nothing wrong with modern or 'edgy', it's just that at no point did it make their mouths water. What is the point of edgy if it doesn't improve the ingredients and make them taste better. If the only point of edgy is to be seen to be edgy then it's wholly superficial. I can see why the judges didn't take to it, the food reflected the two chefs perfectly: both were modern and very skillful, but one was serious & edgy, the other warm & familiar. Which would be the more palatable to you? For the judges it was the predictable split between those who like to be challenged by serious food and those who like it less.

Anyway, after the fireworks of last week, this week has been another underwhelming one for me... judging by the lack of comment so far on this topic i'm not alone here?

[Andy Lynes]

This week, I wonder if the culinary thunder is ever going to begin (with apologies to Morrissey).

[RDB]

either that or you have a cardboard palate

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Firstly I find it strange that one person can judge the quality of another persons palate based on one person having tried a dish, whilst the other hasn't. Secondly RedRum you must have a superhuman palate that is able to taste food, assess it and judge it through watching a TV programme. Tell me how does one taste through sight alone.

Or am I making an assumption and your argument is based on sound empirical evidence, in that you have tasted the dishes in question?

[Andy Lynes]

This week, I wonder if the culinary thunder is ever going to begin (with apologies to Morrissey).

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I don't know how far its going to get him in the competition because it couldn't be characterised as particularly modern, but Tom Kitchin's lamb dish was spot on last night.

I imagine the producers must have been tearing their hair out trying to get some sparky footage out of these understated, polite pair. Jenni Bond's is really having to scrape the bottom of her snide commentary barrel this week.

"Tom's just said he really likes Matthew's dish - but is he just being arch and ironic? Just you wait, any minute he's going to pick up his Wusthof and stab Matthew repeatedly in the arm while laughing like a maniac - chefs are like that you know. Dead exciting and suspenseful isn't it, and in no way just two blokes in a room cooking."

Edited April 24, 2008 by Andy Lynes (log)

[Gary Marshall]

I was interested to see tom roll out pierre koffman last night, as pierre is also a very big fan of another GBM competitor, has been to the restaurant and even wants to spend some time in the kitchen with him.

Honestly quite why pierre would be interested in an 'arrogant' chef with 'no michelin stars' who cooks 'inedible' food i've no idea, maybe after all those years teaching those no hopers such as Marco Pierre White and Gordon Ramsay has left him with a 'cardboard palette'?

[Andy Lynes]

Honestly quite why pierre would be interested in an 'arrogant' chef with 'no michelin stars' who cooks 'inedible' food i've no idea,

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Perhaps because he's more open minded and nicer than us bunch of miserable, spoilt old buggers?

[ernustus]

This week, I wonder if the culinary thunder is ever going to begin (with apologies to Morrissey).

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im finding this week very boring, anthony last week i thought was cutting edge modern, but this week i havent seen anything modern at all, what was that prawns with pea puree and carrot foam all about????