Patrons with lattes

[haresfur]

Along the lines of bringing your own tea bag into restaurants...

It seems not unusual for people in my neck of the woods to bring a latte into restaurants where espresso is not served. Many places seem fine with that although I've seen signs forbidding the practice.

This is similar to the byoT issue in that you aren't going to be ordering a beverage thus depriving them of hypothetical income. It's different in that you are not asking for any extra dishes or service.

I can see both sides... I don't want to deprive anyone of making a living but don't feel bad about having a meal and only ordering water - latte or not (I *like* water). I prefer good coffee. The only time I can think of when I did this, I was sitting with a friend having coffee and we decided we were hungry and went across the parking lot to get breakfast, thus gaining them customers that otherwise would have stayed put and eaten mediocre sugary pastries.

So is this a Pacific Northwest phenomenon? Under what if any circumstances is it acceptable to bring a coffee drink into a restaurant?

[tsquare]

I can think of two breakfast places (Persimmon and Geraldine's Counter) that decided making lattes was not a good use of their time and energy. Both understand that patrons with lattes are still ordering and don't frown upon the practice.

Foaming takes time, makes noise, and requires attention. I can see not wanting to add it to the house.

Okay, that just was preaching to the choir. Any place outside of Washington?

[Ariel Schor]

I've never seen it happen up here in Canada. However, you wouldn't believe how many older women come into restaurants and order a cup of hot water, a side of lemon and a side of honey. My establishment has started to charge for such orders, and really, what is the point of going out if you don't want to pay for what you want?

[hummingbirdkiss]

I see it happen all the freaking time and I think it is incredibly rude..just like I think taking your own tea bag to a restaurant is rude

next people will bring their own bread to a hamburger joint.. oh wait I did read that someone was doing that on another board!

argh

[Naftal]

Along the lines of bringing your own tea bag into restaurants...

It seems not unusual for people in my neck of the woods to bring a latte into restaurants where espresso is not served.  Many places seem fine with that although I've seen signs forbidding the practice.

This is similar to the byoT issue in that you aren't going to be ordering a beverage thus depriving them of hypothetical income.  It's different in that you are not asking for any extra dishes or service.

I can see both sides... I don't want to deprive anyone of making a living but don't feel bad about having a meal and only ordering water - latte or not (I *like* water).  I prefer good coffee.  The only time I can think of when I did this, I was sitting with a friend having coffee and we decided we were hungry and went across the parking lot to get breakfast, thus gaining them customers that otherwise would have stayed put and eaten mediocre sugary pastries.

So is this a Pacific Northwest phenomenon?  Under what if any circumstances is it acceptable to bring a coffee drink into a restaurant?

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I can think of two breakfast places (Persimmon and Geraldine's Counter) that decided making lattes was not a good use of their time and energy. Both understand that patrons with lattes are still ordering and don't frown upon the practice.

Foaming takes time, makes noise, and requires attention. I can see not wanting to add it to the house.

Okay, that just was preaching to the choir. Any place outside of Washington?

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As the one who started Patrons with Tea bags-I am very much against people taking any food item into a restaurant without placing a substatial order. I eat regularly at the place I bring my tea. I have a full meal and I leave a good tip.Lastly, I really like tsquare's contribution to this discussion

[dougw]

I would never bring a drink into a restaurant, and think it is bad form.

Having said that, I'm shocked at how bad the coffee is in some really great restaurants. Being a total espresso dork, I have higher expectations than most. But I was really amazed, for instance, when I went to Babbo for the first time, that they made subpar espresso. One of the best meals I've ever had followed by crap espresso was a disappointment, although a mild one.

I wonder why more places don't take it seriously. It's not that hard. I wonder if the espresso at the French Laundry is as good as the stuff at Vivace or Intelligentsia?

[jsmeeker]

what exactly are people doing?

Are they walking into a restaurant sipping their Starbucks drink from the paper cup, then sitting down at the table with it?

I've seen this sort of thing myself. More likely to see it at a casual place.

[hummingbirdkiss]

what exactly are people doing?

Are they walking into a restaurant sipping their Starbucks drink from the paper cup, then sitting down at the table with it?

I've seen this sort of thing myself.  More likely to see it at a casual place.

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YES!!!! that is exactly what I see and I see it all the time ..

I never usually even notice other people when I go out to eat ..I notice my food ..but there is something so unattractive about someone bringing a cup of coffee into a place

there is so much coffee in the world why???????

[JoRic]

We have this problem at my place, and it's gotten even worse since Starbucks opened down the street. We have a casual but very nice BYO in NJ.

I have had to post a sign at the door that outside beverages are not permitted. People still try to bring their own coffees in, especially during weekend brunches when there are waits for tables- even though we have take out coffees and espresso drinks. The quality of our coffee isn't an issue, either. We use very high quality products and most people comment on how great our coffee is.

I think that people really don't think about what is or isn't appropriate. They just want what they want. On our end, we sell food and beverages (no alcohol). Period. Believe me, it's not easy without liquor sales. And our servers earn their living from tips based on what they sell. Period.

Bottom line- bringing your own beverage (or food for that matter) into a restaurant is almost never appropriate.

[MissAmy]

I think it's totally bad form to bring any outside food or beverage into a restaurant. It's just rude as hell. It is basically saying, "I want to come into your establishment and take advantage of your atmosphere and service, but I refuse to pay for the privilage."

The only time I ever found it appropriate was when one of our regulars at a spa I worked in would bring her own bread. She was on a gluten-free diet (for health reasons, not vanity) and made her own gluten-free bread. Every time she came to the spa she would bring a few slices to have with her breakfast or lunch. She'd have the server bring it into the kitchen, and we'd add it to her plates. I always would throw it on the grill and toast it up with some pretty grill marks and she really liked that. She was also super sweet and tipped the servers really well. That didn't hurt our desire to accomodate her.

Other than that, kids and cheerios. That's ok, too. But no adults with double whipped half calf half fat caramel macchiatos with a shot of hazlenut. No, no, no.

[jsmeeker]

We have this problem at my place, and it's gotten even worse since Starbucks opened down the street. We have a casual but very nice BYO in NJ.

I have had to post a sign at the door that outside beverages are not permitted. People still try to bring their own coffees in, especially during weekend brunches when there are waits for tables- even though we have take out coffees and espresso drinks. The quality of our coffee isn't an issue, either. We use very high quality products and most people comment on how great our coffee is.

I think that people really don't think about what is or isn't appropriate. They just want what they want. On our end, we sell food and beverages (no alcohol). Period. Believe me, it's not easy without liquor sales. And our servers earn their living from tips based on what they sell. Period.

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I would guess the same thing. People have their habit of getting their daily "fix" from SBUX or wherever. They carry it out and hang onto it and nurse it while they go out their business. If part of their business happens to be getting breakfast someplace, the drink just goes with them.

[haresfur]

We have this problem at my place, and it's gotten even worse since Starbucks opened down the street. We have a casual but very nice BYO in NJ.

I have had to post a sign at the door that outside beverages are not permitted. People still try to bring their own coffees in, especially during weekend brunches when there are waits for tables- even though we have take out coffees and espresso drinks. The quality of our coffee isn't an issue, either. We use very high quality products and most people comment on how great our coffee is.

I think that people really don't think about what is or isn't appropriate. They just want what they want. On our end, we sell food and beverages (no alcohol). Period. Believe me, it's not easy without liquor sales. And our servers earn their living from tips based on what they sell. Period.

Bottom line- bringing your own beverage (or food for that matter) into a restaurant is almost never appropriate.

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Well, I totally agree that it is inappropriate to bring an espresso into a place that sells them. I also agree that it is inappropriate to bring a drink into a place that has a sign forbidding the practice.

Still, I don't think anyone is obligated to order a drink with a meal. Economically, bringing a coffee in is no different from ordering water. The only places I've seen with one drink minimums were ones where the beverage was not the major attraction

Order well, tip well, and rationally it is a net gain for the restaurant. But our rules for social interaction aren't necessarily rational and people can be boors. Personally, in some circumstances I don't think it is rude to bring a drink, but what is important is what the other party thinks is rude - that is the essence of being polite.

I think jsmeeker hit the PNW phenomenon on the head - people see their latte as an extension of their hand.

[hummingbirdkiss]

We have this problem at my place, and it's gotten even worse since Starbucks opened down the street. We have a casual but very nice BYO in NJ.

I have had to post a sign at the door that outside beverages are not permitted. People still try to bring their own coffees in, especially during weekend brunches when there are waits for tables- even though we have take out coffees and espresso drinks. The quality of our coffee isn't an issue, either. We use very high quality products and most people comment on how great our coffee is.

I think that people really don't think about what is or isn't appropriate. They just want what they want. On our end, we sell food and beverages (no alcohol). Period. Believe me, it's not easy without liquor sales. And our servers earn their living from tips based on what they sell. Period.

Bottom line- bringing your own beverage (or food for that matter) into a restaurant is almost never appropriate.

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Well, I totally agree that it is inappropriate to bring an espresso into a place that sells them. I also agree that it is inappropriate to bring a drink into a place that has a sign forbidding the practice.

Still, I don't think anyone is obligated to order a drink with a meal. Economically, bringing a coffee in is no different from ordering water. The only places I've seen with one drink minimums were ones where the beverage was not the major attraction

Order well, tip well, and rationally it is a net gain for the restaurant. But our rules for social interaction aren't necessarily rational and people can be boors. Personally, in some circumstances I don't think it is rude to bring a drink, but what is important is what the other party thinks is rude - that is the essence of being polite.

I think jsmeeker hit the PNW phenomenon on the head - people see their latte as an extension of their hand.

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While that last line is quite correct and I totally think it was worded perfectly...it still pisses me off that it is like that ..and I am not in the majority in my thinking about taking things into restaurants ..although I am so grateful to see the comments above ..I feel very validated!

when I go into a restaurant I am putting myself in someone elses hands..casual or not ..I have given up control...why bring tea? coffee ..if I am paying for a meal someone makes I will take it the way they make it with all they provide...it is respectful and kind in my book ..

and I do adore and even travel with my own coffee (to have in my hotel room before I go to breakfast) I was born in Providence RI and went from the breast to the bean ..seriously! I know and love coffee...tea no..but coffee ..yes..I will travel all over for the best of the best...but at the same time I think if you really love coffee you would never wander aimlessly with a cup of coffee in hand ...let alone into a restaurant!!!.....like all things food/drink I believe each cup I consume deserves to be appreciated when and where it is made and in a cup ...where ever it is made ......so what if it is horrible or the place your eating does not serve lattes (or your perfect tea?) ..do not have any! get some before what is the bfd? .. since it really only takes a few moments of life to consume the coffee I am not getting the point it always has to go someplace! ..(the moon is full and I can not contain myself on this I am sorry)

I love living where I do (South Puget Sound Washington State aka "Latteland") and would not trade it for the world.. ..but this is one bitch I have with this place ..it is out of control here and to sit down to a nice bowl of Pho in a mom and pop joint where they serve pressed coffee and there is a family with about 6 lattes they brought in ..just gross! (I saw this just two days ago) Stop it!!!

I mentioned it to the owners and they were very sad about it but would not risk loosing the business...by saying anything (I think that happens a lot) I felt so badly for thse folks wanted to go smack each person on the head who had latte ..but restrained myself .

I will stop now thanks for endulging me

Edited March 19, 2008 by hummingbirdkiss (log)

[dougw]

I'd still love to know more about why there are truly wonderful restaurants that don't take coffee seriously. Any thoughts?

[Kouign Aman]

Dunno. Used to enjoy a nice local northern italian place, but the coffee... gah! I think they made a pot when they came in at the start of the shift, and served it all night long. After two tries, I gave up. Grey burnt and nasty.

[JasonTrue]

Pemco's profile #56 (second page of http://www.werealotlikeyou.com/ ) is "sandals and socks guy" complete with iced latte in hand.

There was a thread on bad restaurant coffee, now archived but still in the eGullet "fridge" I think.

I don't bring my own coffee into restaurants (unless it's near the end of the drink and I haven't found a convenient trash bin), but I can understand the impulse. If a restaurant doesn't have coffee, though, I won't have coffee.

On the other hand, it seems quite commonly accepted to bring food into coffee shops around here, as long as they don't have anything more food-like than a dried out cheese scone. (Or if they're Starbucks, because they don't seem to care).

Oddly enough, I've been scolded for bringing groceries into a cinema (mm... uncooked dry pasta during a show, my favorite) but never for carrying in a latte I was still drinking.

[-sheila mooney]

what exactly are people doing?

Are they walking into a restaurant sipping their Starbucks drink from the paper cup, then sitting down at the table with it?

I've seen this sort of thing myself.  More likely to see it at a casual place.

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YES!!!! that is exactly what I see and I see it all the time ..

I never usually even notice other people when I go out to eat ..I notice my food ..but there is something so unattractive about someone bringing a cup of coffee into a place

there is so much coffee in the world why???????

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bad manners + entitlement + cluelessness?

[LoneFoodie]

I'd still love to know more about why there are truly wonderful restaurants that don't take coffee seriously. Any thoughts?

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Two words: food cost. The bane of many chefs' existences.

[Beebs]

This weekend, I was in a small independent coffee shop/cafe/roastery that served a full list of lattes, iced capps, etc. - and sitting at the table next to me was a guy blatantly consuming a Starbuck's beverage......

[Terrasanct]

Since I don't drink coffee, I hadn't thought about this at all, but the last time my husband and I were at Pike Place, he bought a cup of coffee and we were walking through the market. We stopped at the crumpet shop to pick up a bag to take home and get a few to eat on the way. They wouldn't let him come in the door with his coffee. We weren't trying to make them lose money by buying a beverage elsewhere; we were just walking around. Even though I can see not taking a coffee into a restaurant, are you just supposed to dump your pricey coffee every time you go into another place? It irritated me.

[Megan Blocker]

I see it happen all the freaking time and I think it is incredibly rude..just like I think taking your own tea bag to a restaurant is rude

next people will bring their own bread to  a hamburger joint.. oh wait I did read that someone was doing that on another board!

argh

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Yeah, I have to agree. Unless there's a posted "BYOL" program, I think it's inappropriate to bring food or drink into an eating or drinking establishment.

Since I don't drink coffee, I hadn't thought about this at all, but the last time my husband and I were at Pike Place, he bought a cup of coffee and we were walking through the market.  We stopped at the crumpet shop to pick up a bag to take home and get a few to eat on the way.  They wouldn't let him come in the door with his coffee.  We weren't trying to make them lose money by buying a beverage elsewhere; we were just walking around.  Even though I can see not taking a coffee into a restaurant, are you just supposed to dump your pricey coffee every time you go into another place?  It irritated me.

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This is interesting - because where you went was both a shop and a cafe (I'm assuming - correct me if I'm wrong). I'd say that if you were sitting down to eat in the cafe, then taking coffee in from elsewhere would be rude. But if you're essentially running an errand (those crumpets could be for breakfast tomorrow for all they know), making you dump your coffee seems over the top to me.

[Alchemist]

I work in a bar that does not serve coffee. And I am a coffee drinker. The other night 2 people came in with lattees. I offered to pour the coffee from the paper cups into glass. I don't like the way paper cups look on a bar. They quite rudely said that they wanted to keep it in the paper so it would retain it's temp. I understand not wanting to drink cold coffee. But then drink the coffee fast. The sense of entitlement was amazing.

It seems that so few people say anything that these stupid M*%$@#F&^kers feel it is their right to carry outside food in.

Maybe it's time for all of us to dump the coffees as soon as they walk in the door.

Toby

[tsquare]

Lastly, I really like tsquare's contribution to this discussion

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Gee, thanks.

[Ohba]

Since I don't drink coffee, I hadn't thought about this at all, but the last time my husband and I were at Pike Place, he bought a cup of coffee and we were walking through the market.  We stopped at the crumpet shop to pick up a bag to take home and get a few to eat on the way.  They wouldn't let him come in the door with his coffee.  We weren't trying to make them lose money by buying a beverage elsewhere; we were just walking around.  Even though I can see not taking a coffee into a restaurant, are you just supposed to dump your pricey coffee every time you go into another place?  It irritated me.

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Actually, nothing's to stop him finishing the coffee, then going into the shop. But if you value the coffee for reasons of price, taste or whatever, how about respecting it instead of taking it shopping with you?

Edited April 1, 2008 by Ohba (log)

[KarenDW]

Since I don't drink coffee, I hadn't thought about this at all, but the last time my husband and I were at Pike Place, he bought a cup of coffee and we were walking through the market.  We stopped at the crumpet shop to pick up a bag to take home and get a few to eat on the way.  They wouldn't let him come in the door with his coffee.  We weren't trying to make them lose money by buying a beverage elsewhere; we were just walking around.  Even though I can see not taking a coffee into a restaurant, are you just supposed to dump your pricey coffee every time you go into another place?  It irritated me.

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There are a number of shopkeepers who request that patrons do not bring food and drink into the store. Could it be that in a small space, a cup of coffee (or a soda or ice cream) would constitute a hazard for other patrons?