Storing duck breast

[brendan mc aleer]

if you sear a duck breast, marinate in a soy sauce, vaccum it and steam it to an internal temperature of 50 oc what is the health and safety regulations on this? how long can it be stored for, is 50 oc a safe internal temp will the soy marinade act as a protector? any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tetsujustin]

if you sear a duck breast, marinate in a soy sauce, vaccum it and steam it to an internal temperature of 50 oc what is the health and safety regulations on this? how long can it be stored for, is 50 oc a safe internal temp will the soy marinade act as a protector? any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Well health and safety recommendations say that you should cook a duck breast (actually, all poultry) to an internal temperature of 165 degrees fahrenheit, but that results in a well done duck breast and well, well done duck breasts suck. 50 degrees celsius (which is what I believe is what you're trying to get at with the oc mark) is 122 degrees fahrenheit, which is just a touch over rare, heading towards midrare, and yes that is "safe" as most restaurants serve their duck midrare to medium depending on the varietal of the duck. The soy marinade doesn't act as a protector beause it doesn't have enough acid in it to kill off all bacteria, and though it's high in salt, it won't completely cure a duck breast (which I don't think you're going for anyway)

Just for general curiousity, why steaming it? And why searing it first before it goes into the bag?

[theabroma]

Seconding the reply, and wondering if you don't have the sous-vide steam and the sear out of order? In my experience, the sear is done last, just prior to plating, and often with a blowtorch.

Just curious.

Theabroma

[Qwerty]

God I hope no one here sears with a blowtorch.

Both ways are fine. With a duck breast, I imagine the intention would be to render most of the fat out of the duck breast prior to sous vide. Also, he doesn't say whether the duck is going to be served hot or cold, and a pre-sous vide sear would add the aromatic qualities of the sear without requiring heat after.

I would caution, however, that duck fat/skin when served cold is not very appetizing, and can become chewy.

Here's what I would do:

Peel the skin and fat off of the breast, and vacuum with marinade. Meanwhile, trim as much fat away from the skin and render/reserve for another use...and then take the skin and render the fat off of that. Then place into an oven between two sheet pans to render the remaining fat and make the skin very very crispy...like a crackling. Re-assemble when the breasts are ready.

Alternatively, you could just peel the skin and fat off the breast, slice into threads, and render in a pot until all the moisture is gone, all the fat is rendered and the strips of skin are nice and crispy brown. Then just sprinkle over the breast.

I would also raise the temp. to about 56-57. I find that rare duck can be pretty chewy, and I think that since you are doing it sous vide that the temp will be stable throughout and a nice MR would be perfect.

Hope I helped a bit, good luck.

PS--Steaming is a perfectly acceptable way of executing sous vide. Some of the equipment is better at maintaining a steady temp then others, but if you have good equip. the results are pretty much the same as using a TIC. The method of heat transfer matters less than the stability of the temp.

[brendan mc aleer]

thank-you for your help. firstly we sear/render the duck to remove the fat from the breast. we marinate it vac and steam. we steam as we have have no water bath or thermoregulator. Our oven has a steamer and a digital probe so the duck is cooked perfectly to 50 degrees. for service it is popped in the oven to heat it through to mr. it is beautifully tender but the main problem we have is how long is the duck safe in the bag. When the health inspector comes what is safe? When the duck is steamed it is held in an ice bath and then stored directly in the fridge until it is needed. what would the shelf life be or would it have to be used same day. I have eaten it one week later and it has been fine.

[theabroma]

God I hope no one here sears with a blowtorch.

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Only sugar ... but don't sound so shocked. You'd be amazed at where blowtorching to finish protein.

T

[Qwerty]

I worked at a place that sous vided foie gras (disgusting and pointless) and then used a blowtorch to "sear" the outside. It was truly a nasty preparation. I left that job as soon as I could.

As far as the duck, the shelf life should be fine. As long as the seal is good and proper sanitation habits were followed during vacuuming...there should be no worries. If the bag inexplicably becomes bloated throw it out. The MAIN worry with sous vide is botulism, and the best indication of that is a puffy and bloated bag. Throw any of those out.

I mean, my advice would be to just do them one or two days in advance, no worries. I wouldn't like do a months worth of duck or anything.

Sous vide is quite possibly the best way to store many things. Shelf life, in most cases, is extended from traditional storage techniques. I think you guys should be fine.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Qwerty (log)

[TheSwede]

I think that 50 C is actually in the danger zone for some nasty stuff by one or two degees C. There is a lot more information in the extremely long sous vide thread.

[jackal10]

I hope you mean 60C and not 50C

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fc01-3.html#3-4

The story about holding times is more complex.

Since the cooked food is (nearly) sterile, provided you do not pierce or open the bag, biological action is unlikely to be the cause of degredation. Other factors, such as chemical degredation will happen quicker.

MAXIMUM HOLDING TIMES

(adapted from

CALCULATING THE TOTAL GROWTH OF BACTERIA IN COOKED FOOD USING THE FDA CODE CONTROLS by O. Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D Hospitality Institute of Technology and Management)

The US FDA Food Code, is, a simplification and scientifically wrong because pathogen growth actually starts at about 29.3ºF and stops, for all practical purposes, at 125ºF. The speed of growth depends on the temperature. The FDA codes appear to be based on a maximum of a 10x generations (doubling) of pathogens such as Listeria onocytogenes at 41ºF and Salmonella / Staphylococcus aureus at 115ºF. Based on this we can extrapolate to other temperatures,

°F

°C

10 Multiplications

of Pathogens

SAFETY LIMIT

<30 <-1.1 Safe

30 -1.1 123.8days

35 1.7 19.3 days

40 4.4 7.5 days Fridge temperature

41 5.0 6.5 days

45 7.2 4.0 days

50 10.0 2.4 days

55 12.8 1.7 days

60 15.6 1.2 days

65 18.3 21.6 hours

70 21.1 16.9 hours Room temperature

75 23.9 13.6 hours

80 26.7 11.2 hours

85 29.4 9.3 hours

90 32.2 7.9 hours

95 35.0 6.8 hours

100 37.8 5.9 hours

105 40.6 5.2 hours

110 43.3 4.7 hours

115 46.1 4.6 hours

120 48.9 5.6 hours

125 51.7 31.0 hours

[TheSwede]

...pathogen growth actually starts at about 29.3ºF and stops, for all practical purposes, at 125ºF...

125 F = 51.6 C

Cooking stuff below that for extended times is bad.

[mtigges]

So, last night I was informed that I would have Friday night all to myself! I immediately went to the freezer and took out a duck breast. One of my faves that she doesn't really care for that much. So, I left it out on the counter to thaw for a couple hours with the intent of putting it in the fridge before sleepy time.

Only I forgot.

Damnit. It's a really nice breast too.

I'm inclined to cook it regardless. I've eaten more suspect things with no problems. But this is poultry. I don't want to have to stand at the toilet wondering which end I should point at it first. Or worse.

So ... is it ok to leave the duck breast out all night like that? I took it out at about 10. The surface was probably in the danger zone for about 7 hours.

tia

[Chris Hennes]

Pitch it and get a fresh one. No question. Food safety experts would say that it shouldn't have been allowed to thaw on the counter for any length of time, let alone overnight. I know, I hate tossing stuff too, but you could regret it, very very badly. Risk/reward just isn't there...

[Busboy]

Don't sue me if you get sick, but I leave stuff out accidentally all the time, eat it, and don't puke.

How much did you spend on it? How easy is it to replace?

[Luckylies]

its fine....was it in cryovac?

yeah, food safety experts would tell you differently but, was it cool to the touch in the morning?

*if you die, it's not my fault.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I leave things out overnight all the time. I'm in my 40s and have yet to get sick (or die...)

You'll be fine.

[Chris Hennes]

*if you die, it's not my fault.

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We're talking about, what, a $10 duck breast? I just don't understand why you'd want to risk getting sick over something like that. Sure, chances are slim, but why take the risk? I'm sure we've all got anecdotal evidence that we've done it and not gotten sick, but I'm telling you: food poisoning is NOT PLEASANT. We're not talking like just "bad hangover" kinda sick here... talk to someone who's had it. It's just not worth the risk.

[mtigges]

its fine....was it in cryovac?

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Yes.

How much did you spend on it? How easy is it to replace?

$15. Not the best breast in the city, but definitely not the cheapest either. The place I got it is kind of on my way home, but there aren't any unfrozen ones. But that's not really a problem. In a water bath will thaw it quickly enough.

Of those kin to me who have left stuff out and eaten it no problem, has it ever been any kind of poultry? I wouldn't have asked if this were beef, for some reason I wouldn't consider it an issue. But I don't think I've done it with duck. I've let a breast come to room temperature for 2-3 hours before (a little too long according to cya people) with no problem, but this is a little different.

[Qwerty]

I would toss it....not worth the possibility. If you end up sitting on a toilet, holding a trash can for 12 hours I bet you'd pay 15 bucks to make it stop.

I would buy a new one, thaw it under water, and use that.

[Ruth]

How hot was your kitchen? If it was not heated I wouldn't worry too much. If it's off you will be able to tell. Just sniff it!

[mtigges]

How hot was your kitchen? If it was not heated I wouldn't worry too much. If it's off you will be able to tell. Just sniff it!

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18C, around 65F.

Mark.

[Hest88]

YMMV, but I've cooked many an item I've left out for longer periods without an issue. And some of those weren't even cryovac-ed.

[mtigges]

YMMV, but I've cooked many an item I've left out for longer periods without an issue. And some of those weren't even cryovac-ed.

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me too, but poultry?

[Luckylies]

just eat it, it's fine! refrigeration is such an overhyped crock!

[Luckylies]

like spelling....

[mtigges]

Yum that was delicious. I'll report back if it I get taste of it in the other direction.