Cornbread [MERGED TOPIC]

[Sandra Levine]

I have been using yellow cornflour

Is this different from cornmeal? If so, that may be the problem.

[Toby]

Wilfrid, what about the fat? I always put about 4 tablespoons of butter into cornbread. Commodities (on 1st Avenue and 10th Street) sells organic cornmeal (in bulk) that is very delicious and works great in cornbread. (They also have much grittier cornmeal for polenta.)

[Sandra Levine]

Also, F-G's can of creamed corn suggestion sounded good to me, if you are not being a purist about this.

Edited December 4, 2002 by Sandra Levine (log)

[Toby]

And you can substitute some creme fraiche for some of the buttermilk -- this will make it very light. (If you use sour, as opposed to sweet milk, add a very small amount of baking soda.)

[Wilfrid]

I am using cornmeal, I misspoke.

As for fat, I had tried adding a little duck fat the first time, and a little oil the second time. I'll try the heavy dose of butter instead. What about anything to sweeten it? The second attempt was quite sour.

Thanks for the tips.

[Jaymes]

Wilfrid -

This has me puzzled. Assuming you're following some sort of actual recipe, and not just winging it, you shouldn't be having any trouble. I, too, thought that the "corn flour" was the problem since I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds like it's a finer grind than cornmeal, which I've always used.

As far as adding sugar or a sweetener - by and large, folks in the U.S. south don't like sweet cornbread and so, don't ever add sugar, and the bread is not sour. I can see why some people DO add sugar and many of the packaged mixes do, but you shouldn't HAVE to.

I'd suggest that you go to the store and buy two or three of the packaged varieties, like good ole' Jiffy, and one without sugar (Jiffy has it), and bake up a couple pans. Taste and compare them to what you've been making so at least you have some idea as to the taste, texture, etc., of the overall finished product. These mixes are very inexpensive and easy to throw together. You can use the resulting cornbread to either eat as is, or have some cornbread cereal or make cornbread salad the next day to use it up. Even if you just toss it, you won't have invested much.

Then, armed with the info as to what it should taste like, begin searching for a basic "scratch" recipe that sounds promising. After you do that a time or two and have it down pat ("in your hands," as the pianists say), you can begin fiddling and experimenting with adding sour cream or a can of creamed corn, or chiles, or whatever, until finally, voila, you wind up with your own, from scratch, version.

[Jason Perlow]

Rachel actually made skillet cornbread for thanksgiving, using bacon fat and crumbled bacon. Awesome. Everyone loved it, the stuff disappeared real quick.

The only thing I could think of to improve it would be to add mexican cheese and chopped jalapeno chiles to it...

[Jaymes]

Rachel actually made skillet cornbread for thanksgiving, using bacon fat and crumbled bacon.

Breakfast at my grandmother's house usually went like this:

She got up early before anyone else and cooked some sort of fatty pork in the cast iron skillet - bacon or sausage or something. Then, she set that aside and got the pan with the drippings really hot and poured in her cornbread batter, and set it in the oven to bake.

She often added this or that to the cornbread - depending on her mood. Her cornbread was fabulous.

[Rachel Perlow]

Here's my recipe, my skillet is fairly large and this doesn't quickly spread to fill the pan, so I use an offset spatula to smooth it out, or you can just leave it rustic looking - more crunchy spots.

Skillet Cornbread with Bacon

2 Slices Bacon

1 cup Yellow Stone-ground Cornmeal

1 cup All-Purpose Flour

3/4 tsp. Baking Soda

2 tsp. Baking Powder

1-1/2 tsp. Salt

3/4 tsp. freshly ground Black Pepper

2 Tbs. Sugar

1 Egg, lightly beaten

1 ½ cups Buttermilk (or 1 ¼ cup milk + ¼ plain Yogurt or Sour Cream) – I used the sour cream and skim milk

Optional ingredients: corn kernels, shredded cheese, chopped sautéed hot peppers, cilantro

Heat the oven to 350°F. Place cast iron skillet over low heat and slowly cook the bacon. Occasionally stir and slice the bacon (I use 2 knives) until the bacon is crisp and the fat has rendered, then place pan in the oven (leave the crumbled bacon & grease in the pan). While bacon is cooking, sift together the cornmeal, flour, baking soda, baking powder, salt, sugar and pepper. Combine the egg and milk. When the bacon is done and the skillet is in the oven, add the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients along with any optional additions, and stir to mix fairly well. Quickly open the oven and pour the batter into the skillet and bake until a toothpick inserted in the center of the bread comes out clean, about 20 minutes. Turn the cornbread out on a rack so it doesn't get soggy as it cools.

[Suvir Saran]

The only thing I could think of to improve it would be to add mexican cheese and chopped jalapeno chiles to it...

And a little finely chopped cilantro. It becomes even better.

[Jaymes]

Wilfrid -

This has me puzzled.  Assuming you're following some sort of actual recipe, and not just winging it, you shouldn't be having any trouble.  I, too, thought that the "corn flour" was the problem since I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds like it's a finer grind than cornmeal, which I've always used.

As far as adding sugar or a sweetener - by and large, folks in the U.S. south don't like sweet cornbread and so, don't ever add sugar, and the bread is not sour.  I can see why some people DO add sugar and many of the packaged mixes do, but you shouldn't HAVE to.

I'd suggest that you go to the store and buy two or three of the packaged varieties, like good ole' Jiffy, and one without sugar (Jiffy has it), and bake up a couple pans.  Taste and compare them to what you've been making so at least you have some idea as to the taste, texture, etc., of the overall finished product.  These mixes are very inexpensive and easy to throw together.  You can use the resulting cornbread to either eat as is, or have some cornbread cereal or make cornbread salad the next day to use it up.  Even if you just toss it, you won't have invested much. 

Then, armed with the info as to what it should taste like, begin searching for a basic "scratch" recipe that sounds promising.  After you do that a time or two and have it down pat ("in your hands," as the pianists say), you can begin fiddling and experimenting with adding sour cream or a can of creamed corn, or chiles, or whatever, until finally, voila, you wind up with your own, from scratch, version.

Or you could just follow Rachel's excellent recipe.

[Rachel Perlow]

Re: Stone-ground Cornmeal. After visiting several supermarkets, none of which had real stone-ground (whole kernal with the bran) corn meal, I ended up at Whole Foods, scooping the meal myself from the bulk bin. Good natural food or health food stores will also usually carry good cornmeal. All I could find in the supermarkets was Quaker and it was the bran removed kind. Blech. Either buy small quantities (which makes the bulk bin purchase appealing) or store whole stone-ground cornmeal in the fridge if you don't use it up fast.

[Rachel Perlow]

Adding cilantro to my list of optionals, above...

[Suvir Saran]

Jaymes, thanks for mentioning Jiffy Mix. I cannot tell you how many compliments I get when I prepare Grandma Hayes's Corn Bread. It is made with Jiffy Mix. The recipe is posted on this thread. I add buttermilk instead of milk. I also add kernels from 2-3 fresh corns on the cob. And when I want to play around.. I add some jalapeno, cheese, and cilantro. I also at that time add a little cayenne. It makes the corn bread really nice.

People call me and write me asking for a recipe.. and I am all embarassed.. for it is plain ole Jiffy Mix.

Thanks Jaymes, for the recipe of the salad. Sounds very nice.

[Rachel Perlow]

I've always thought that "corn flour" as referred to by the British, is the same as "corn starch" in the US. If this is the case then this is not the same thing as "cornmeal", especially not the same as "stone-ground whole cornmeal" and may be contributing to the problems Wilfrid is having.

[Suvir Saran]

I've always thought that "corn flour" as referred to by the British, is the same as "corn starch" in the US. If this is the case then this is not the same thing as "cornmeal", especially not the same as "stone-ground whole cornmeal" and may be contributing to the problems Wilfrid is having.

Rachel you raise a great point. Not sure if Wilfrid could be having the same problem. He seems like the kind that would know better. In India we call what Americans call corn starch corn flour. And it is a leftover of the British.

But after coming here I realized rather quickly that it was not the same thing. I am sure Wilfrid is having some other problem. He seems to savvy for that. But it certainly is a great point to bring out.

[Rachel Perlow]

Has anyone ever baked cornbread in a skillet that wasn't cast iron?

[Suvir Saran]

Has anyone ever baked cornbread in a skillet that wasn't cast iron?

I have baked it in a stainless frying pan. And actually it came out just fine.

In fact recently I have had to make it several times minus a skilled but in a cake tin... The results have been perfect.

[Rachel Perlow]

I reread the thread, Wilfrid posted that indeed he was using cornmeal, not corn flour. However, he mentions 2 cups corn/AP flour to 1 cup milk & 1 egg - I use 1 1/2 cups milk - but he also says doubling the milk didn't help. I don't mix butter into the batter, but last time I used a little sour cream, and also the bacon grease is more than for greasing the pan. Hmm, the amount of sugar I use does not result in a sweet cornbread, just sort of rounds out the flavors. Wilfrid, are you using stoneground cornmeal or a bran removed variety? Stoneground cornmeal has some of its own moisture (when you buy some from a bulk bin you can test the freshness by seeing if it clumps a little when you squeeze it). That's why you need to store it cold, the bran oil can turn it rancid during prolonged storage.

[Rachel Perlow]

Has anyone ever baked cornbread in a skillet that wasn't cast iron?

I have baked it in a stainless frying pan. And actually it came out just fine.

In fact recently I have had to make it several times minus a skilled but in a cake tin... The results have been perfect.

I think the main thing about skillet cornbread is having the greased skillet hot in the oven. When you pour in the batter, the crust sets quickly and gets nice and crunchy.

[Suvir Saran]

I use not fat in the batter. In fact none of the 3 Grandmas that have shared recipes with me added any fat into the batter. The only fat that is in the recipe comes from what you melt into the skillet. They use bacon fat when they have it handy or simply butter. One used crisco. And they use a large amount of fat in the skillet. The batter is poured over hot melted fat and it is fun to see how the fat comes over the surface of the batter as soon as you have poured it. There is no need to level the surface.. the fat takes care of it. And when the bread is ready, no matter how much fat you added into the skillet, it is all absorbed. Nature of corn meal.

[Suvir Saran]

Has anyone ever baked cornbread in a skillet that wasn't cast iron?

I have baked it in a stainless frying pan. And actually it came out just fine.

In fact recently I have had to make it several times minus a skilled but in a cake tin... The results have been perfect.

I think the main thing about skillet cornbread is having the greased skillet hot in the oven. When you pour in the batter, the crust sets quickly and gets nice and crunchy.

Exactly what the Grandmas have told me.

And I use the same technique for the frying pan and the cake tin. Easy thing to follow and achieve similar results.

[jhlurie]

Rachel actually made skillet cornbread for thanksgiving, using bacon fat and crumbled bacon. Awesome. Everyone loved it, the stuff disappeared real quick.

Perlow, you dirty skinking rat. I suggested the Mississippi Cornbread approach and you didn't even tell me how it worked out!

Pig fat and crumbly rule. Sugar and spongy suck (okay, it doesn't suck, but its not nearly as good).

Unfortunately when we had a poll on this, people disagreed with me. Stupid people!

Rachel, was the sugar really necessary? Okay, I guess a little was okay.

As for fat, I had tried adding a little duck fat the first time, and a little oil the second time. I'll try the heavy dose of butter instead. What about anything to sweeten it? The second attempt was quite sour.

And Wilfrid, I am shocked and dismayed that of all people YOU would not try using Pig fat.

Edited December 6, 2002 by jhlurie (log)

[Wilfrid]

Okay, I cracked it yesterday, with a little advice from Toby. Got the skillet hot, used far more eggs and butter, and ended up with a crunchy crust but a soft spongy (yes, not dry and crumbly) interior.

Baby loves the stuff.

Now I can start fine tuning the flavour and adding bits and pieces.

[Suvir Saran]

Okay, I cracked it yesterday, with a little advice from Toby.  Got the skillet hot, used far more eggs and butter, and ended up with a crunchy crust but a soft spongy (yes, not dry and crumbly) interior.

Baby loves the stuff.

Now I can start fine tuning the flavour and adding bits and pieces.

eggs???

How large a skiller are you using?

Needs just one egg for an 8 inch skillet... maybe two could work...

But always thought the idea was to have that amazing sweet smell of the corn to be most strong.. and eggs do impart their own wonderful aroma and taste.. Not a bad thing.. but for corn bread.. not sure...

What recipe are you using Wilfrid?

What kind of corn flour?

I baked corn bread last night.... Most amazing.

I make it so often now that I feel I have become one of the grandmas from the South that taught me this art.