Origin of Submarine Sandwich

[TAPrice]

Does anyone have reliable information on the origin of the submarine sandwich?

The word submarine, according to Webster's, dates back to 1703 (that surprised me). I've read that submarines weren't widely used until WW I, and others have suggested that the sandwich doesn't predate the widespread use of the vessel.

Wikipedia claims that it was created in Boston at the start of WW II. Doubtful. The only source here is a single webpage that looks like spam.

Edited November 20, 2007 by TAPrice (log)

[munchymom]

Do you mean the actual sandwich (i.e. a sandwich in a long roll) by whatever name, or the term "submarine sandwich"? OED's earliest cite for "submarine" as a sandwich is 1955, from the Saturday Evening Post.

[TAPrice]

Do you mean the actual sandwich (i.e. a sandwich in a long roll) by whatever name, or the term "submarine sandwich"?  OED's earliest cite for "submarine" as a sandwich is 1955, from the Saturday Evening Post.

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Good question. I'm actually interested in both the origin of the sandwich and the origin of the name. (Actually, I'm mainly interested in the origin of the New Orleans po-boy sandwich, but I think getting a handle on the submarine sandwich is necessary first.)

1955 seems really late.

[Andrew Fenton]

Actually, 1955 doesn't seem so late to me. Submarines had been around for a while, but I don't think they really penetrated popular culture (20,000 Leagues under the Sea notwithstanding) until World War II.

People had been making sandwiches on long loaves for a long time before that, of course. One of the possible etymologies for "hoagie" were the "hokey-pokey men" who, after the opening of HMS Pinafore in Philadelphia in 1879, made and sold sandwiches on long "Pinafore" loaves. There have to be other, older examples as well.

[bigbear]

Try including Groton, CT in your search for "submarine" sandwiches.

[Fat Guy]

From Wikipedia:

Prior to the 1940s, insufficient iron in the American diet drove many people to eat scrap metal. Submarines were a particularly rich source of this vital nutrient. Shortages during World War II, however, made it impractical for Americans to eat actual submarines, so a research team led by John Adams Carver (a relative of the botanist George Washington Carver) explored alternatives to eating submarines. Their solution of long sandwiches on iron-fortified bread was the most successful. Other proposals, such as adding nails to blender drinks, did not enjoy widespread adoption.

[munchymom]

OED places "poor boy" at 1931 and "po'boy" at 1932; each cite is to a listing for a sandwich shop in New Orleans city directories.

[TAPrice]

Do you mean the actual sandwich (i.e. a sandwich in a long roll) by whatever name, or the term "submarine sandwich"?  OED's earliest cite for "submarine" as a sandwich is 1955, from the Saturday Evening Post.

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I love the modern world. In just a few minutes, I was able to find a "submarine sandwich" reference 6 years older than what the OED lists.

It's beginning to look like both the sandwich and the name are a mid-century creation (although the po-boy predates the submarines by several decades and may be the original).

From the Los Angeles Times on Aug. 7, 1949:

It's a monster contraption, the double submarine that nosed into sight along the East Coast late in the war. The original spot of its sighting is a matter of contention, but nobody argues over its present home base. Biggest submarine-sandwich fleet in dry dock is built by Jack Twilley's stand-up-and-at-'em snack bar at Rehoboth Beach, Del., most proper summer-resort town.

The article has a photo of guy taking a big mouthful. The caption reads: "MEAL: One 'sub' is enough for anyone at a sitting."

A year later in from a "News of Food" column in the New York Times by Jane Nikcerson (9/2/50).

From the Reader Mail: "Recently, while I waas in Philadelphia," write Robert B. Byrnes of Baltimore, "I noticed sings in many of the restaurants, taverns and sandwich shops proclaiming the excellence of 'Hoagies,' 'Hoggies,' 'Hogys,' and 'Horgys,' almost every sign being differently spelled. Investigating for myself I learned that here was again the type of Italian sandwich which you spoke of as the 'grinder.'"

The "grinder," as mentioned here in July, is that mammoth construction of a horizontally cut loaf of Italian bread with a filling of meat, cheese, olive oil, tomatoes, etc. Besides being called a hoagy and variations thereof, it also is known as a submarine sandwich and, Mr. Byrnes notes, in certain parts of the country, as poor-boy sandwich.

Ok, so when did Italian bread become French bread? Is this sandwich really Italian in origin?

[TAPrice]

People had been making sandwiches on long loaves for a long time before that, of course.  One of the possible etymologies for "hoagie" were the "hokey-pokey men" who, after the opening of HMS Pinafore in Philadelphia in 1879, made and sold sandwiches on long "Pinafore" loaves.  There have to be other, older examples as well.

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Is there evidence that the sandwiches go that far back? The 1950 NYT article I cite above makes these overstuffed sandwiches sound like something new (it's only one source, of course).

[JimH]

Here is some more info from the Food Timeline link I posted in the cookbook section.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodsandwiches.html#submarine

[Holly Moore]

Hoagie History

Submarines are Hoagie wannabes.

[MarketStEl]

Hoagie History

Submarines are Hoagie wannabes.

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Hog Island Foods, 246 South 11th Street, between Spruce and Locust, 627-7511. Monday—Thursday, 11 am—9 pm, Friday—Saturday, 11 am—10 pm.

Long since disappeared from the scene. The space now houses the French bistro Zinc.

But I guess the history never gets stale.

However, you did leave out two other revisionist histories: the Wawa version and the Suburban Heresy, which places the sandwich's origin in Chester.

I put links to both in this post from my second foodblog.

[JimH]

There are days I'd kill for one, crusty bread, provolone, drool. Then comes the urge for a good cheesesteak. It takes at least two good doses of BBQ or some cajun food to suppress these urges.