Cheesesteak Geography

[lancastermike]

Here in Lancaster if I go for a cheesesteak what I get is not what I get in Philadelphia

The meat is chopped and cooked on the grill with chopped onions. The cheese will most likely be American, there ain't no Whiz. And the largest difference is that it will be sauced with a marinara like tomato sauce.

My wife, Maggie, grew up in Thorndale in Chester County. She tells me that in the tri-city area of Downingtown, Thorndale and Coatesville, the steaks are cooked the same way they are here, but you had the choice of the sweet tomato sauce or a hot version of the sauce. When she moved to Lancaster she was surprised that the hot sauce was not available.

There is a place here that is Lancaster's best sandwich store. Thomas Deli. Bill Thomas makes them like you get in Philadelphia. Many folks around here find it strange as they are not used to it. They are used to steaks as served at Capt. Gus Steak Shop. Gus is the Pat Oliveri of Lancaster cheesesteaks. And he makes a damn good steak. Just a different thing.

Lancaster is 60 miles from Ninth and Passyunk, Thorndale only 30 or so.

Were does this change take place? How are steaks made in Eastern Chester County? How about Delaware County? Some place there is a line between what I call Philadelphia steaks and Lancaster ones.

Thomas Campus Deli

Can't find a menu for Capt. Gus, but here is a link to some reviews. BTW, Gus is a real character in the best sense of that phrase.

Capt. Gus

[ChrisOC]

I don't think there is any line. As a metter of fact most steak sandwiches in Philly are made with the steaks chopped on the grill. Dalessanro's in Roxbourgh makes them that way and they are outstanding. Cheese, onions and sauce are optional. I don't see anything wrong with preparing the steak sandwich in this manner, as long as they are cooked to order. Thats how most Pizza/Steak/Hoagie shops in Philly do it.

What I don't like is when I see a stand at some farmer's market prepare a mountain of meat and onions to be shoveled onto a bun hours later!

[philadining]

I guess if the distinction is the default saucing, and the american cheese, the rt100 border (Exton, Lionville, Eagle) is still in the philly camp, mostly... no automatic tomato sauce (although one can certainly get it by ordering a "pizza steak.") Cheese varies: there's not much whiz to be found out this way, but one can find it sometimes.

Don't know if that helps...

[Holly Moore]

You are too far away from the mother ship when the menu says "Philadelphia Cheesesteak." You are lost beyond hope when it says "Philadelphia Style Cheesesteak."

[monavano]

You are too far away from the mother ship when the menu says "Philadelphia Cheesesteak."  You are lost beyond hope when it says "Philadelphia Style Cheesesteak."

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Holly, lost beyond hope is "Philadelphia Steak and Cheese" here in Virginia. It is usually close to a cheesesteak hoagie. I've come to like it actually, but view it as a completely different sandwich. One the whole, it's called that vs. a cheesesteak. That said, I can and do enjoy cheesesteaks from one or two local places who do them right.

The marinara option is readily available in Philly and I've been eating my cheesesteaks that way for a long time.

Great subject, OP.

eta: As an aside, Holly's post reminded me of a Food Network show which is hosted by Paula Dean's two sons. They go from city to town to find good eats that are local and can be shipped. In their little "let's talk about the city and make a game plan" shtick at the beginning of the Philly show, one brother pointed out how not to stick out as a tourist by mentioning "Dont say I want a Philly cheesesteak. Just say cheesesteak". As if their very thick southern accent wasn't going to give them away .

Edited October 8, 2007 by monavano (log)

[gfweb]

I have studied this question. The line passes through Norristown, just south of Wilmington, follows the PA border up the DE river with a bulge into Cherry Hill and then follows the PA Tpke to Norristown.

[Catew]

I'm in Wilmington (about 2 miles from the PA line).

Here they are just called cheesesteaks. No Wiz. If you want onions, you have to ask for them. The default cheese option is white american, but you can request provolone. And the meat is thinly sliced beef, chopped on the grill.

[gfweb]

I'm in Wilmington (about 2 miles from the PA line).

Here they are just called cheesesteaks.  No Wiz.  If you want onions, you have to ask for them.  The default cheese option is white american, but you can request provolone.  And the meat is thinly sliced beef, chopped on the grill.

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There are islands of decent steaks in Wilmington. True, Whiz isn't an option south of the airport, but those places that use Serpe's rolls make a good steak.

[Furious Flav-or]

The way it should be, with certain local exceptions, like Chink's, who uses only American cheese:

Gimme a provolone, with. (Provolone cheesesteak with fried onions)

Gimme a whiz. (Steak with cheez whiz)

Gimme a cheesesteak hoagie. (You'll get asked what sort of cheese and should count on lettuce and tomato, bare minimum.)

I've heard all sorts of strange perversions away from Philly. Up in Central PA they put that marinara crap on my cheesesteak without even asking me if I wanted it and then had the nerve to grandly pronounce it to be "Philly sauce." Once I ordered a cheesesteak up there and they asked me if I wanted it "in the garden." WTF? Turns out, that's what they call a cheesesteak hoagie.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Furious Flav-or (log)

[gfweb]

The way it should be, with certain local exceptions, like Chink's, who uses only American cheese:

Gimme a provolone, with. (Provolone cheesesteak with fried onions)

Gimme a whiz. (Steak with cheez whiz)

Gimme a cheesesteak hoagie. (You'll get asked what sort of cheese and should count on lettuce and tomato, bare minimum.)

I've heard all sorts of strange perversions away from Philly. Up in Central PA they put that marinara crap on my cheesesteak without even asking me if I wanted it and then had the nerve to grandly pronounce it to be "Philly sauce." Once I ordered a cheesesteak up there and they asked me if I wanted it "in the garden." WTF? Turns out, that's what they call a cheesesteak hoagie.

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In central PA you are lucky if they don't put it on a Kaiser roll!

"in the garden?" Hey Whadda youse talkin about?

[punkin712]

Up in Central PA they put that marinara crap on my cheesesteak without even asking me if I wanted it and then had the nerve to grandly pronounce it to be "Philly sauce." Once I ordered a cheesesteak up there and they asked me if I wanted it "in the garden." WTF? Turns out, that's what they call a cheesesteak hoagie.

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I grew up in Central PA and never heard of marinara on a cheesesteak. The only bastardization of the original I knew about was that most people used Velveeta instead of Cheez Whiz. If you asked for provolone or mozzarella, you were immediately declared insane and forced to relinquish your PSU season football tickets on the spot. Also, never saw one on a kaiser roll - where are these heretics of which you speak?

"In the garden" sounds like they are asking if you want lettuce or some other vegetable topping. Not sure why that translates to "hoagie"...

Edited October 12, 2007 by punkin712 (log)

[Holly Moore]

As I have said before, at the Farmer's Market in LA, one can order their cheesesteak with sprouts and/or avocado.

Copa had a full page ad in yesterday's Inquirer, showing their menu. Among other items "Philly Cheesesteaks." Shame on Bill Curry.

[jmbrightman]

  What I don't like is when I see a stand at some farmer's market prepare a mountain of meat and onions to be shoveled onto a bun hours later!

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that was always my experience at lunch hour weekdays at Dalessandro's, and why I don't care for their sandwich.

[gfweb]

  What I don't like is when I see a stand at some farmer's market prepare a mountain of meat and onions to be shoveled onto a bun hours later!

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that was always my experience at lunch hour weekdays at Dalessandro's, and why I don't care for their sandwich.

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I agree. Dalessandro's also will put marinara on if you aren't watching carefully.

[CoolPapaBell]

You are too far away from the mother ship when the menu says "Philadelphia Cheesesteak."  You are lost beyond hope when it says "Philadelphia Style Cheesesteak."

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I thought that too and peeps from Buffalo say the same thing about "Buffalo wings". However, a vendor in Logan Square, right outside the Academy of Natural Sciences (the corner left of the main entrance) advertises “Philly cheesesteaks”. I guess it’s for tourists.

He was bragging big time how only he and Tony Luke’s make a real cheesesteak. Alas, I was pretty full at the time and had to settle for soft pretzels and water ice for the three generations with me.

I think Logan Square is close to the Mother Ship.

Edited October 17, 2007 by CoolPapaBell (log)

[Tim Dolan]

I agree.  Dalessandro's also will put marinara on if you aren't watching carefully.

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I've never gotten sauce on a steak from Dalessandro's when I didn't ask for it and I've been going there for years. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes, but it's not like they add sauce as a default.

[Chris Hennes]

Being in Central PA right now, I can vouch that at least not everyplace puts marinara on them - but there does seem to be a distinct lack of meat! When I'm in Philly everyone is advertising their "original half pound cheesesteaks" -- out here we're lucky to get 3 oz.

I find that even in the immediate vicinity of Philly there is a lot of variation: my brother-in-law works at a place that makes great cheesteaks, where the default cheese is a provolone-mozzarella mixture. The place down the road only uses provolone, and a little further down is another place that swears by cheez-wiz. Depending on who you talk to, any one of these is the "classic Philly cheesesteak."

But don't even get me started on the "cheesesteaks" in Iowa. Ack!!!

[MarketStEl]

Copa had a full page ad in yesterday's Inquirer, showing their menu.  Among other items "Philly Cheesesteaks."  Shame on Bill Curry.

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That's a red flag screaming, "ORDER SOMETHING ELSE OFF THIS MENU!"

You are too far away from the mother ship when the menu says "Philadelphia Cheesesteak."  You are lost beyond hope when it says "Philadelphia Style Cheesesteak."

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I thought that too and peeps from Buffalo say the same thing about "Buffalo wings". However, a vendor in Logan Square, right outside the Academy of Natural Sciences (the corner left of the main entrance) advertises “Philly cheesesteaks”. I guess it’s for tourists.

He was bragging big time how only he and Tony Luke’s make a real cheesesteak. Alas, I was pretty full at the time and had to settle for soft pretzels and water ice for the three generations with me.

I think Logan Square is close to the Mother Ship.

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That vendor was pulling a fast one on you, in all likelihood.

Which is not to say that he didn't make a good cheesesteak. I've had some fine ones from trucks and carts around here, but on the whole, few mobile steaks stand up to the best of the fixed-location purveyors.

Logan Square^WCircle is close enough to some Cheesesteak Pantheon spots to qualify -- but the best of the best locally IMO are quite removed from the Parkway.

But don't even get me started on the "cheesesteaks" in Iowa. Ack!!!

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They have cheesesteaks in Iowa?

Recalling the "Philly Mignon" franchise's mercifully short life at Independence Center in suburban Kansas City, I can only cringe at the thought of what these must look and taste like.

[CoolPapaBell]

That vendor was pulling a fast one on you, in all likelihood.

Which is not to say that he didn't make a good cheesesteak.  I've had some fine ones from trucks and carts around here, but on the whole, few mobile steaks stand up to the best of the fixed-location purveyors.

I was admittedly just earning my foodie stripes—I was only in college. But circa 1986, I worked at Penn Center and there was a father-son, or more accurately I think, a son who had his elderly father help him out. They had a larger-than-most vendor stand and made surprisingly excellent cheesesteaks. I wonder if in my learned gastronomer years I’d still think the same thing but I loved it as an acne-faced college kid.

But either way, said Logan Square vendor did use “Philly” or “Philadelphia” as an adjective for the cheesesteak.

South Jersey roots and parents still there, I have no question that across the river is still very much within natural cheesesteak borders. Chick’s Cold Cuts by the Erlton fire station may be my personal favorite, but the Marlton incarnation of mini-chain Lee’s Hoagie House puts out one that also can compete with any.

Anyway, currently living north of Atlanta, it took my 19 years to find a real cheesesteak here. Not surprisingly, the owner of the joint is a Philly (West Chester actually) native.

[Josephjdefelice]

This is an interesting topic. Being from the NE, who IMHO has the best steaks in the City (Chinks, Steves and Fruscos)...I happen to think most steaks outside the city are subpar with the exception of Mamma (sp?) in Bala Cynwyd (who happen to use mozz and sauce). However, I went to college in Readin, PA for a year and I ordered a cheesesteak from a place called Vassalo's. I asked for a plain steak (realizing I was in foreign territory I wanted to play it safe), what I got was a cheesesteak (American) with onions, mushrooms, peppers and sauce. I couldn't believe so I tried another place and you guessed it, the same thing. I do not understand this phenomenon.