Premium & Superpremium Vodka: The Topic

[Pan]

I like really good grappa, but it is definitely a unique taste.

[beans]

The Grappa-not so hard

Well then there's really good grappa and then there's the stuff you can find in US wine/liquor stores.

[Shannon Essa]

Mayhaw, do you mean the crazy guy from Luxembourg who was into heavy metal? That Black Death guy?

After living in Italy, where a restaurant would bring you a grappa (sometimes good, sometimes so-so) after a meal, just because they liked you, it saddens and sometimes sickens to see the prices for an after dinner grappa over here. I developed a taste for it, and love it, but I am not going to spend $10 on a shot of it.

[Mayhaw Man]

Mayhaw, do you mean the crazy guy from Luxembourg who was into heavy metal? That Black Death guy?

Well, same vodka-different guy. The Luxembourg guy bought it from a bunch of guys in the US and Mexico, who were led by The Cabo Group-a liquor distributor and importer of tequila (notably Tenoche, which is really, really good and not so notably the bulk tequila that eventually is bottled as Torado (the one with the tiny sombrero on the top)). I believe that the Cabo group is now defunct. I have had no contact with the principles in several years.

It was kind of fun though. They had all of these little coffins made up in Puebla and they would ship them to the two bottling plants in El Norte. The bottles were packaged and sold in the little coffins. Very tasteful.

The ATF took a run at the owners based on the label being against some of their stunningly arcane and seriously lacking in sense of humor regulations concerning alcohol labeling and the case ended up in the US Supreme Court (the government lost). I believe that the case was known as Cabo vs. The United States, but I could not pull it up as I do not have one of those fabulous lawyer data bases (although a large percentage of our fellow correspondents might ).

They sold it to the Europeans in the late nineties (I think, I just read the trades and was not involved in any way).

[beans]

Yes, the ATF folks are a rather humourless bunch --having worked with them somewhat, uncomfortably, in Put in Bay. But that’s a different story….

That case was Cabo Distributing Co. v. Brady, 821 F. Supp. 601 (N.D. Cal. 1992) before the Federal District Court of Northern California.

The matter dealt with labeling and the ATF's authority [The Federal Alcohol Administration (FAA) Act, 27 U.S.C. § 205(e)] to promulgate regulations with respect to the bottling, packaging, and labeling of distilled spirits, wine and malt beverages so as to prohibit deception to the consumer, and provide adequate information as to the identity and quality of the product.

For a really boring, long legalese read, see 27 CFR Parts 4, 5, 7, 13, and 19 and the ATF Quarterly Bulletin found here. (And I'm drawing the yawn factor line and haven't plugged in the appeal to find the underlying, original case.)

The ATF asserted the name and label (that featured a sinister image of a grinning skull with a black top hat) created "the misleading impression of bubonic plague and poison." Cabo won their appeal.

Black Death Vodka is distilled from beets in Luxembourg and is not to be confused with Blavod.

Curious about this Black Death Vodka, its label and the coffin? Lookey here.

[Suzanne F]

I got to taste Ciroc last night. I found the aroma to be somewhere between nail polish remover and rubbing alcohol. But the taste was . . . just vodka (and therefore, not much). However, it IS quite smooth. (My preferences normally run to Skyy and Absolut, for comparison purposes.)

[Pan]

I got to taste Ciroc last night. I found the aroma to be somewhere between nail polish remover and rubbing alcohol.

And yet you drank it?

[beans]

Oh, there are worse nail polish removers (the aforementioned grappa or cachaça).

All of which I've found a way to enjoy.

[Pan]

I don't find grappa like nail polish remover.

Cachaca is nasty stuff until it's mixed into a Caipirinha, however.

[Suzanne F]

Of course I drank it. Why wouldn't I? What's wrong with those smells?

No, grappa is more like paint remover. I love it. Especially a camomile-flavored version I used to have at Zoe in Soho.

[Pan]

Paint remover. Yummy.

[clifford]

You know, I always found the notion of truly expensive vodka rather perplexing.

Let's look at the raw materials they are working with: water, potatoes, grain.

No real shortages of any of that stuff.

And it's supposed to taste like,...well...nothing.

And there's no need to age it, because after, say, two years, it's not going to taste any more like nothing, is it?

So why, exactly, does this stuff cost $20, $30, $40+ dollars a bottle? The answer must lie beneath the smiles of those liquor company executives.

As an aside, a friend of mine once paid $125 USD for a 750ml bottle of some Super Premium Lithuanian vodka. PT Barnum must have rolled over a couple of times in his grave!

[Mayhaw Man]

Oh, there are worse nail polish removers (the aforementioned grappa or cachaça).

All of which I've found a way to enjoy.

Don't forget that unforgettable Cacique Guarro in Costa Rica. A delicious plastic bottle boquet in every grimace causing swallow. Yikes. Talk about a headache in a bottle

I bring home two liters every time I like everything eventually.

[stephenc]

I see that many people have been brainwashed by Grey Goose's ad campaign.

[beans]

Welcome to eG stephenc.

Brainwashed -- how so? By that cute holiday telly advert with the goose wearing a festive red bow?

Taste is indeed subjective and insulting others by their choices may not be doing one any favours.

[KatieLoeb]

I finally got a chance to try the Charbay vodkas for the first time yesterday. YUMMMM! Very tasty stuff! The "unflavored" base level vodka is definitely in the Eastern European style of having some peppery flavor, as opposed to NO flavor, which seems to be the super premium target these days. Not hot, but just cooling in the mouth with the slight pepper notes and a nice heavy mouthfeel for a water-like liquid. The Blood Orange and Key Lime flavors are delicious. I ordered both of the flavors and am working on a couple of funky cocktails to showcase them to best advantage. I'm thinking of a "Key Lime Pie Martini" with the Charbay Key Lime, a bit of Stoli vanilla, a tiny splash of Sprite, rim the glass with Roses Lime juice and crushed graham cracker crumbs, garnished with a flower shaped lime wheel. What do you all think? And then something called perhaps a "Sicilian Martini" (where blood oranges are from and as opposed to a "French Martini") with the Blood Orange Charbay, a splash of blonde Lillet and an orange zest curlicue. Both vodkas have a lovely tinge of color to them that will look appropriately chi-chi in a birdbath glass and smell astonishingly good. I can hardly wait for them to come in so I can start to "play"!

[beans]

Katie - Those cocktails sound divine.

Have you tried their Meyer Lemon or the Ruby Red vodkas? I really love ruby red grapefruit so that is the one I've got some high hopes for being fanatastic.

However it appears they make, on the whole, a quality product. I would love to try their whiskey or the Pastis, too.

Charbay is a must visit when I finally get myself to Napa.

[KatieLoeb]

Katie - Those cocktails sound divine.

Thanks Beans! I was afraid the graham cracker crumb rim on the glass might be a bit over the top, but then again, that's what makes for specialty drinks, n'est ce pas?

Have you tried their Meyer Lemon or the Ruby Red vodkas?  I really love ruby red grapefruit so that is the one I've got some high hopes for being fanatastic.

Ohmigosh! I didn't even know they had those other flavors! Gotta call my sales rep first thing Monday morning!! The lemon could be lots of fun to play around with. I'm seeing lots of lemonade variations, or maybe "pink lemonade" with a tiny splash of pomegranate juice? Yummy! And the Ruby grapefruit has lots of potential as well. I'm thinking those might be a bit more "summery", but I guess it doesn't really matter if folks are drinking mojitos in the dead of winter, right?

However it appears they make, on the whole, a quality product.  I would love to try their whiskey or the Pastis, too.

Can't wait to go check these out as well. The pastis isn't really up my alley, just because I'm not fond of licorice flavors. In fact, the very scent of Ouzo and Sambuca make me gag. But again, since there's outdoor cafe seating facing the park, the illusion of the Cote d'Azur or Paris might work!

Charbay is a must visit when I finally get myself to Napa.

I'm right there with 'ya! This would be at least as interesting as any of the wineries I visited last time I was there. I don't think I'd plan any other stops for that day though.

[clifford]

I received a bottle of Ruby Red a few years back. A little of that with some tonic on a hot summer day was divine!

[edsel]

Katie, the "key lime pie martini" is a great idea, but maybe you should go for a graham cracker crust effect rather than using actual cracker crumbs. I fear that the crumbs would seem pulpy or soggy when mixed with the drink. Maybe you could add a touch of aromatic spices (cinnamon? allspice?) with some coarse turbinado sugar for the glass rim. The coarse sugar would provide some "crunch" but would dissolve if it fell into the drink rather than floating around.

[beans]

Welcome to eG edsel!

All great suggestions that demonstrate the consideration to texture, flavour combinations and accents. That is *the* thought process that creates those stunning signature drinks. Keep that creativity going but keep a few of the following, with regard to Katie's Key Lime Pie Martini:

The crumbs really don't touch the drink (unless of course the bartender pours the cocktail a little bit sloppy) and therefore do not become soggy. Think of the salt rim on a Margarita -- the salt doesn't (or shouldn't!) come off the rim and float around and mix with in the drink. The glass is rimmed for a final touch effect to compliment and enhance a particular recipe. Think of garnish as that little extra to make the flavour to pop.

Regarding your suggestion of spices, while that would be interesting to vary the drink's flavour, creating a different drink altogether with a new name, however the only spices that you would add to the cocktail would be that of the ones found in a Key Lime Pie.

Also to consider, with a sweeter drink, sugar would not be advised for rimming. For example a Daiquiri is supposed to be sour/tart (think bright and refreshing ) which is why it is rimmed with sugar. However on a quick side note, unfortunately most commercial premade mixes these days are not very sour at all -- i.e., the strawberry, banana, mango, etc. are all syrupy sweet.

[snowangel]

Katie, have you tried Shaker's? Very smooth. A friend and I polished off a bottle (like the whole thing) one evening and felt terrific the next day.

[KatieLoeb]

Katie, have you tried Shaker's?  Very smooth.  A friend and I polished off a bottle (like the whole thing) one evening and felt terrific the next day.

Must. Find. Shaker's. I suspect your bright eyed and bushy tailed start the day after has a lot more to do with your age and metabolism (versus mine, of course).

Thank you everyone for the drink refining suggestions. I still think if it were done properly, the cracker crumb rim could work, but the other suggestions are excellent and either applicable to this particular recipe or certainly others in the future. I like the spiced turbinado sugar idea! That could definitely be interesting. I'm also thinking that the moisture providing ingredient around the glass rim could be a liqueur rather than a juice. For instance, a Caramel Apple Martini could moisten the rim with Frangelico and then dip into red turbinado sugar, rather than do the finely chopped nuts I've done in the past. Might be a whole lot more manageable.

My bartender friend that I just had brunch with suggested using just a tiny splash of Licor 43 and a bit more Sprite (or sour mix depending on how sweet the end result was) rather than the vanilla flavored vodka for the Key Lime Pie drink. Cost comes down and you're not using two different brands of vodka in the same cocktail.

[skchai]

To SOME extent, I believe that the argument about vodka quality is wrong-headed. As long as the vodka is competently distilled, the main determinant of taste will be the infusant / flavoring extract, not the vodka itself.

1) Even if their are subtle differences in the taste, aroma, mouth-feel of different vodkas, the overall goal remains neutrality or something fairly close to it.

2) Among most Russians, the ultimate vodka seems not be tied to a particular brand but to the use of zubrowka (bison grass) as the infusant. In relation to this, the main problem with U.S. vodkas is not incompetent distillation but the soda-pop additives that are used to flavor them.

Is it even possible to get zubrowka here in the U.S.?

[KatieLoeb]

Is it even possible to get zubrowka here in the U.S.?

No. There's a chemical component of the grass that is classified as a "hallucinogenic agent" or some such nonsense, and hence is treated as a controlled substance, much like cocaine or heroin.

The only bottle I ever tried was a bottle from Poland gifted to me that was "smuggled" in their luggage. It is delicious!