Thinking of going to culinary school?

[Preserver]

this is an expose of the illegal school practices to gain more students, but disregard their ability to pay back the loans. it's more of a mill than a school with pride..

http://www.sfweekly.com/2007-06-06/news/burnt-chefs/

[Mikeb19]

Most culinary school are like that.

The best thing that happened in my cooking career: I got rejected from culinary school. Why? Because I was in a low income bracket, living in the ghetto, and already had cooking experience. Anyhow, the same month I was supposed to be in school had I been accepted, I got a job at the best restaurant in town. I got ahead pretty quick, learning both savoury and pastry cookery. My most recent cooking job was actually as a pastry chef, and I've also been the 1st cook in an award-winning fine dining resto.

You work like a fiend, listen and learn as much as possible on the job, and you'll learn more (and make a lot more money) than you will by going to cooking school.

One guy I used to work with, did get accepted to culinary school (we applied around the same time). Last time I saw him a few months ago, he was schucking oysters at a bistro.

When kids would come to our back door with a resume, and they're fresh out of culinary school, their resume would be thrown in the trash. If they had some other cooking experience, then we'd hire them to peel vegetables and pick through salad greens.

Heck, I had one kid, with culinary school experience as well as some restaurant experience (shouldn't say kid, he was 5 years older than I...), who couldn't even make a proper emulsion - I had to teach him how to make a fucking ganache, and walk him through how to make a foam... Another one I let make a mayonnaise by herself (don't they teach that in culinary school?), after 4 attempts she asked me to show her how to do it... Anyhow, that's enough culinary grad stories, I'm going to get stressed out just thinking about it again. (it was that bad...)

As a side note, why does everyone think fine dining is the epitome of cooking anyway? I've had some amazing 'low-brow' food, plus you can make a hell of a lot more money cooking it... (I get just as excited about good barbeque as I do about good fine dining)

[Preserver]

well, not all culinary schools are like that... some are very particular bout their student's. cos they will be carrying their name around the country if not the world, some are just mills to make money quick and don't care bout what happens after they get out of school... they would give you the impression that you would graduate and immediately be like Todd English or Thomas Keller or some well known celebrity chef. they fail to mention that you have to put in time and sweat to get there and also your passion to come up with new dishes. you pretty much have to eat, sleep, shit food....

(no pun intended) i worked with this kid who graduated from that school and he cut a piece of meat along the grain...

the good thing about culinary school is that you don't have to spend years learning techniques from chefs where else school teaches you different styles of food and techniques within 2-4 yrs depending which school you go to.

[ChefJohnny]

There have been many lengthy and heated discussions (myself included) about this subject on eG. It's important to not take what most people say to heart. Research ad touring campuses are your best tool. You will get VERY different perspectives from people who have and have not gone to culinary school.

Myself, I graduated in 05 from Johnson & Wales with my B.A. in Culinary Arts. I am a big advocate of culinary schools. But, it's all about what you take away that makes the difference. I went to school with some kids who were only there because they didn't want to go to a "real" college. Some who were there because their parents were paying. Some with no experience and inclination to succeed in the industry. One in particular, who was a senior with me, continued to use a full set of "Chef Tony" knives, and couldn't cook to save his life. How he made it to his senior year is beyond me. And he was a douchebag to boot.

But there were many, like myself, that had a little prior experience and wanted to pursue a life in this industry. I made great friends with the Chef Instructors that got me into some very nice places, like The French Laundry. Networking is a HUGE asset of culinary school. There are a lot of things you learn in school that you most likely will not from just working in kitchens. On the other hand, there are lots of things you learn from restaurants that you won't learn in school. To me, culinary school was another stepping stone to where I wanted to go. And that stone was almost always one more than someone without a degree.

The stuff in that article only really applies to the smaller schools. The big ones, J&W, CIA, NECI, etc. won't have that kind of reputation. But again, research and going to the campus and talking to people there and ex-students is your best ally in determining where you want to go.

-Chef Johnny

Edited August 11, 2007 by ChefJohnny (log)

[SundaySous]

http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/culinary_s...ago_kendall.htm

I think something like the first $10,000 of tuition is non refundable. And before you sign the agreement they spend a good ten minutes explaining this. They will tell you if after 6 weeks they might determine you are really not cut out for this career.

Maybe you don't have skills. Maybe you are a primadonna and have the skills but there is no way in Hell we want to be associated with you.

From what I hear in class they may talk about people that did well after graduating and how they did it. They will also tell you it's more likely you will be earning from $20 to $30K after graduation.

http://www.chic.edu/

At this school your only requirement for acceptance is being able to finance it. As long as your paying you will be passing the course work.

They will tell you will be earning $40K minimum upon graduation. They will show you successful graduates. They won't tell most of them where decent cooks when they got there, have a passion for the art and oh yeah they financed those restaurants themselves.

[WiscoNole]

I'm very comfortable with my decision to attend school. Then again, my school is a little different than something like a for-profit California Culinary whatever.

[The Blissful Glutton]

This article is pretty much spot-on. I have my own CCA experience.

I was a career changer and desperate to get out of my corporate job. I visited The Cordon Bleu in Paris, but realized I did not want to leave San Francisco because I loved it so much. I made the impulsive decision of going to CCA--this was a couple years after they sold. I signed up for their program that promises culinary arts with a strong business focus. Being a a business major in undergrad, it seemed like a good extension of my previous studies and would give me knowledge I needed to open a restaurant.

I was very wrong. During my first week, I got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach--that feeling that tells you to turn around and run away. But, I am one of those people that likes to finish what I start. You know what they say about listening to your gut. I only had 4 teachers in my entire stay at CCA. Hardly the range of culinary experience I had been sold up front. Classes were too simple and I got a 4.0 quite easily--as did many of my peers. We did learn some valuable things, but hardly enough to warrant the hefty price tag. The consensus among students was they felt cheated and some of them started a lawsuit against the school. I don't know how that ever turned out. After a year of study and a 3 month externship, I felt like I just wasted a year of my life and could have learned much more by just immersing myself in the industry.

I am not saying all schools are bad. I do think there are schools out there that do provide an immensely positive learning experience, but I urge all of those considering it to do their research--I wish I had.

Edited August 11, 2007 by The Blissful Glutton (log)

[Preserver]

well the school, did start off as a great school, with instructor's with passion for food. then after it was sold tho a cooperate education company it just went downhill from there, and of course they are swimming in the reputation that the school had reaped for the 20 years when it was a great school.

[Jakea222]

Yes - a piece of paper is important and while some may not want to fork over money to go to school whether culinary or otherwise - pay does change over time with both cooks up until a point and then the piece of paper means a lot. I have a bachelors degree in businees and a culinary degree and while I am doing ok money wise - my degrees have set me above the typical cooks we have in and out the door all day looking for 10$ hr. I am Exec Sous of a Country Club and can tell you the Sous Chefs before me was degreed and went on to bigger things the ones before that were just real good/some bad cooks - are still working lines and are not Sous chefs anymore...

[Jmahl]

It comes down to what your expectations are and what you want to become. If you really love the craft with the hours, heat, cuts and burns then maybe. If you have not worked in the bizz – do it. Talk your way into the kind of place you would like to run one day. Work like a dog and read everything you can get your hands on. Put in at least a year and then – and only then – you may want to go to school. You don’t have to go to school – If you can out work any other kitchen dog into the ground you can talk yourself into your next job and work yourself up the ranks. Don’t kid yourself, it takes years – and many don’t make it – they crash and burn.

Now if you are ready for school – go to the best school you can. I would say Europe – and not a school in English for Americans – but Swiss, French or Italian. Go and talk to the people there. Talk to grads. Do your homework or suffer the consequences. There are lots of examples of people being ripped off. Lots of threads on e-Gullet on this. If you love it out – get burned, cut, work till you can’t move and then maybe?

Good luck,

Jmahl

[Alchemist]

I also went to the CCA, in the late 80’s, but I left after the first semester. They wanted me to wait on tables in their restaurant, while paying them 60ish dollars a day. That said, I went there with only short order cook experience, and it opened my eyes to what could be done. It gave me a great foundation. I knew the mother sauces, could hold a knife right, could turn the f#&k out of a carrot (took me almost 15 years to eat raw carrots after eating all my mistakes, about my body weight a week) could say conical strainer and peeler in French, met some good people, but most of all realized that I knew almost nothing. A little knowledge is a very, very dangerous thing. I went and got job washing lettuce, chopping garlic, jalapeños and ginger until my hands were on fire. We would laugh at the CCA grads because they thought they knew everything. They didn’t. I think that that is the biggest reason that most culinary school grads applications end up in the circular file is they get in the kitchen and want to do it their way, not the chef’s.

So, I would say if you can find someone to teach you to clarify a consume (and explain why the raft works) make a perfect hollandaise and put up with all your questions (and you better have a zillion of them.), and then forgo school. But that is not an easy thing. Read, read, and set the bar very high for yourself. If your brunoise isn’t perfect work on it until it is. If your speed need’s work, take a couple of nights in a slamming diner and flip eggs and burgers at a million per hour. Work with utter concentration, close faster, power through the weeds, and generally get better at your job every day.

[lala]

Hmmm.... I would say the same caveat about the proliferation of wine courses and certifications. And that's all I'll say.

[SundaySous]

Alchemist

but most of all realized that I knew almost nothing

"The wise man is the one that knows he knows nothing."

some wiseguy

Edited August 22, 2007 by SundaySous (log)

[Raoul Duke]

"He who speaks, does not know. He who knows, does not speak". Lao Tzu

[SoxMunkey]

I went to a sister culinary school of CCA, and I have to admit, that news article is right on target. We as culinary students always talked about how we were being taken advantage of and how certain things that were talked about during recruitment were never delivered.

We've made the most of it though... but I wish that I could have gotten a little more for what I am paying back in school loans.