Ducasse to open at the Dorchester

[BigboyDan]

Le Louis XV is a "Michelin 4-star" restauant - it can not be duplicated elsewhere because of a myriad of reasons. At the least, London will get a new high-end restaurant, and it should be judged on its own merits.

Ducasse is Robuchon's best professional foil... and Joel has responded well...

[Andy Lynes]

Le Louis XV is a "Michelin 4-star" restauant

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That's really quite a unique achievement.

[BigboyDan]

Le Louis XV is a "Michelin 4-star" restauant

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That's really quite a unique achievement.

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Agreed.

Hyperbole aside, there is just no other restaurant like it.

[ameiden]

After having been to Louis XV last week, I agree that this is a unique place. Mainly because of the "Versailles" decoration it cannot be replicated elsewhere, not even at the Dorchester. But I have to say that I was somehow disappointed by a number of things.

Cepes are in season and they feature heavily on the current menu. I asked whether I could have a pasta dish with cepes instead of the rice dish that was on the menu. My request was rejected with the excuse that they had no pasta. Strange answer in a place like this. Then go and make some, I was tempted to say.

What followed then was a true cepe orgy: Amuse bouche was a chicken soup with cepes and cepe ravioli (so they did have pasta!). Then I had the provence primeur vegetables with olive oil and truffles which also featured a cepe. After that I got the rice with cepes, and for the main course the grilled beef with an olive daube of vegetables that again contained what? Cepes!

The biggest disappointment was the dry, over-done beef fillet. I asked it to be medium, it was somewhere between medium well and well done. Not very nice at all, despite a very good sauce. Cheese trolley was great but the waiter stopped after serving me three tiny portions. Baba au rhum was very good. Liked the verveine infusion prepared by the tableside. The wine list is focused on rare and expensive prestige wines from famous producers only, no affordable finds from anywhere, hardly a bottle for under 100 Euros.

Interesting that six tables remained empty throughout the entire service and two tables featured other three-star chefs with their partners, spying on the competition. Don't get me wrong, this was a highly enjoyable meal even for 500 Euros per head but it didn't quite meet the "4-star" expectation I had.

[Gary Marshall]

So we're now debating the quality of yet-to-open restaurants by their prices? I've said it before but I'll say it again: this board has gone weird.

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when was it normal?

[BigboyDan]

After having been to Louis XV last week, I agree that this is a unique place. Mainly because of the "Versailles" decoration it cannot be replicated elsewhere, not even at the Dorchester. But I have to say that I was somehow disappointed by a number of things... The biggest disappointment was the dry, over-done beef fillet. I asked it to be medium, it was somewhere between medium well and well done. Not very nice at all, despite a very good sauce.

Inexcusable. You should have sent it back.

... Cheese trolley was great but the waiter stopped after serving me three tiny portions.

You can eat as much of any of the cheeses that you want.

... The wine list is focused on rare and expensive prestige wines from famous producers only, no affordable finds from anywhere, hardly a bottle for under 100 Euros.

"Affordable"? You can get that 50 euros bottle of Merlot at Harrods...

...a highly enjoyable meal even for 500 Euros per head but it didn't quite meet the "4-star" expectation I had.

Hmmm. I last ate there in March 2006. I will again eat there on the 5th of November 2007. I'll compare notes.

[Matthew Grant]

Cepes are in season and they feature heavily on the current menu. I asked whether I could have a pasta dish with cepes instead of the rice dish that was on the menu. My request was rejected with the excuse that they had no pasta. Strange answer in a place like this. Then go and make some, I was tempted to say.

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Why is it a "strange answer in a place like this"? Its a three star kitchen that has worked all day preparing to serve the days menu. A customer comes along and wants something completely different - why would you want to do that? Have you considered that making pasta in the middle of a service might affect other aspects of your own and other diners meals, would you have been happy to sit around an hour while the dough rested in the fridge? Although they had ravioli on the I can imagine that this pasta mix might differ from one to make an "unstuffed" pasta course and also that the ravioli might be already prepared before services

[julot-les-pinceaux]

At these prices, sounds like a great example of "their problem". A three star restaurant, furthermore in a palace, should be able to make you pasta if that's what you want. They're here to please you and they charge you enough for that. If they can't live up to legitimate expectations, so be it, and let us never eat at Ducasse again. It's not like it's good anyway.

[RDB]

At these prices, sounds like a great example of "their problem". A three star restaurant, furthermore in a palace, should be able to make you pasta if that's what you want. They're here to please you and they charge you enough for that. If they can't live up to legitimate expectations, so be it, and let us never eat at Ducasse again. It's not like it's good anyway.

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So if I expect to be fed grapes and fanned by a beautiful waitress throughout my meal, it is therefore my right for them to 'please me' this way?? I would say it is not 'their problem', but maybe a cognitive distortion which certain diners have and a belief system that is somewhat grandiose and over expectant.

[Matthew Grant]

So if I fancy Bouef Bourgignon, a Beefburger or a Thai Green Curry they should knock me some up on demand simply because the food they do sell costs so much money?

If you want a particular dish I would suggesting ringing in advance or employing a private chef.

[Scottf]

let us never eat at Ducasse again. It's not like it's good anyway.

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Are you talking about Ducasse's food in general or Le Louis XV in particular?

[ravelda]

This just shows a total lack of understanding of a) what you are paying for at this type of restaurant and b) how a kitchen works. The high price is not for them to pander to your every desire but to create wonderful dishes using the finest produce, cooked to the highest standard. To maintain the high standards the chefs will all be engaged and working hard in the kitchen - for one person to have to stop his usual job in the kitchen to knock up a batch of pasta for one person would disrupt the entire kitchen and thereby affect the standard of every other person in the restaurnat, thus they would not be recieving what they should expect to. In short, I am amazed that you can complain about this!

[Andy Lynes]

Substituting one cep rice dish for one cep pasta dish would not have brought the kitchen to its knees. A perfectly reasonable request in my opinion, especially if there were six empty tables.

[Matthew Grant]

I'm not certain of this but I think the tables are kept empty deliberately.

[naebody]

Substituting one cep rice dish for one cep pasta dish would not have brought the kitchen to its knees. A perfectly reasonable request in my opinion

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It all depends on how the request is phrased, I suspect.

Anyone who's vegetarian, pregnant, spice averse or nut allergic knows the boundries by which you can tailor a menu. When handled diplomatically, switching the carb element of one course should be well inside those boundries. However, If you're just trying to redesign the dishes to match your own preference, you've completely missed the point of haute cuisine and the waiter is right to steer you away from such folly.

Right, I'm off to Ramsays to order swan.

Edited October 17, 2007 by naebody (log)

[ravelda]

I would agree that it would not have brought the restaurant to its knees if they were using ready-made pasta or had dough ready but if they were very busy, it would have affected the kitchen significantly had it not been ready. What they should have done is perhaps offered some other alternatives that they could do rather than simply refusing to change the dish.

[Big Bud]

The way I see it is if you are going to a restaurant like this why would you want anything different than what is on the menu. The dishes themselves sometimes take a lot of development and planning. Why put things under pressure and receive a dish that may not be up to standard, because you want it?

[julot-les-pinceaux]

Scottf, I was talking about Ducasse in general, since I have not been to Le Louis XV in particular. I may be unfair to Ceruti here since everybody says that he is the best in the Ducasse empire. But Ducasse's other places leave me very unimpressed foodwise. I would actually argue that it is the opposite of haute, great cuisine -- my 2 cents, obviously.

I may have a total misunderstanding of what I pay for in 3* restaurants (I've only been in dozens a year for fifteen years) and of how kitchen work (I've only worked in some a bit). But I know enough to know that the Louis XV is not an independent haute cuisine restaurant but a palace. The prices they practice are largely justified by the fact that they are a palace restaurant. They're here to please the customer, not the other way around. I can mention a number of 3* where that request would never be turned down.

Of course if you have last minute special request, you will not benefit of all the planning that went into the risotto or whatever the Chef planned that day. And you will probably not enjoy the top of what they can do. But that is the client's call. I am not saying it is the best way to enjoy restaurant. But in the end the client is the only judge of what he wants or not, especially in a palace.

I also know enough that, no matter how it is organised, it is not an issue to make pasta for that kind of brigade and kitchen. Not to mention that Ducasse prouds himself so much on the fancy (dried) artisanal pasta he serves. Boeuf bourguignon or beefburger or thai green curry are much more specific requests, actually impossible to acomodate on short notice in the Louis XV. This has nothing to do with wanting pasta in the fanciest hotel in Monaco -- the most Italian inspired of all 3*.

In general, I find the idea that, on top of paying 500€ per person, you should comply with some sort of code and show yourself worthy of the place really strange.

[julot-les-pinceaux]

The way I see it is if you are going to a restaurant like this why would you want anything  different than what is on the menu. The dishes themselves sometimes take a lot of development and planning. Why put things under pressure and receive a dish that may not be up to standard, because you want it?

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This is a different question. I agree with you, and I would advise not to ask for pasta instead when Ceruti designed a risotto that day. But I am still shocked that the Louis XV, of all places, would refuse to acomodate that request.

Edited October 17, 2007 by julot-les-pinceaux (log)

[ameiden]

Amazed to see what discussion I have started here. To be honest, I was surprised that the waiter turned down my request as I put it across in a very friendly manner and thought this would be a reasonable thing to ask for that would not put the kitchen into too much trouble.

I had a vanilla-obsessed girlfriend for many years and in every three star restaurant we went to we had to ask for a vanilla dessert at the beginning of the meal. The replies we got in various places ranged from "No way, this is too short notice, no mousse will set, no ice cream will freeze etc" to "OK, no problem, madame" to the most amazing vanilla souffle served with vanilla liqueur and vanille ice cream by the side.

By the way, there was another little "incident" at Louis XV I forgot to mention. Initially I ordered the a la carte wood pigeon as a main course. My order was taken, everything seemed fine. Three minutes later the waiter stormed to my table and said he was sorry but they had no woodcock today. This was at the beginning of the service with only two other tables seated. In my opinion, this is something that should not happen in a place like this either. It was only then that I ordered the beef that turned out to be almost well-done.

[Scott]

I think the most exciting thing to me with the AD is whether he will be getting his cheeses from Bernard Antony. Only the Capital and Sketch have his cheeses in London (I think) and I would love it if he gets them in as well as his cheeses are without compare. Only just under 5 weeks to D-day now!

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Greenhouse

[malcolmwilliamson]

Hardens' online guide reports that Nicola Canuti has been replaced as head Chef by Jocelyn Herland, 36, from Paris’s Plaza Athénée.

[Paul Reynard]

The executive chef has indeed changed to Jocelyn Byrne - details have changed on the Ducasse website. Has anyone got any idea for this late change and what the new chef is like? Sounds like a bit of a set back - maybe the thought of leaving Monaco for a London winter was too much for Cerutti!

[Matthew Grant]

Ooh! Does that suggest a more high end focused approach or simply that Canuti wasn't up to the job?

I don't believe Cerutti was ever planning to leave Monaco or be chef in London?

[Paul Reynard]

It would be interesting to know how Canuti was ever planning to be executive chef in London and yet never leave Monaco? If that was indeed going to be the case then I would've been highly surprised if good enough standards would have been achieved for what is expected. The Dorchester web site at the moment (under the chefs profiles) still has Canuti's picture and yet talks about Herland in the text. All a bit weird...

As far as Herland goes Christophe Moret is executive chef at Athenee so not sure what position he used to hold. The usual sources (i.e. google and Wikipedia) are also drawing a blank.