The Sourdough Starter Topic

[chiantiglace]

yes, but not recommended. its very easy to star your own.

[Special K]

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/tips/sourdough-primer.html

". . . unlike children or pets . . ."

[Joe Blowe]

Drying would be better: http://www.carlsfriends.org/OTbrochure.html

BTW, that site is a worthwhile read for anyone interested in sourdough.

P.S. You can score starter there for the cost of two postage stamps

[slkinsey]

The short answer is: it depends. It depends on how you do it, how long you plan to keep it frozen, and whether the strain appears to be freeze-tolerant. The famous "Carl's Starter" from back in the rec.food.sourdough days has apparently evolved to be quite freeze tolerant, provided that you follow the same freezing procedures. I think drying before freezing is recommended, as water crystallization may not be so great for the microorganisms.

By the way, if you are going to acquire an already-established sourdough culture, I'd recommend Sourdoughs International over King Arthur. This is something I very much recommend over starting your own culture. Self-started cultures take a while to evolve stability, are notoriously cranky, and may not turn out to be all that great when all is said and done. Sourdough baking is tricky enough on its own, so why not use a culture with known properties?

[chiantiglace]

Sourdough baking is tricky enough on its own, so why not use a culture with known properties?

Unless the yeast strain is wild, the properties are going to be the same eventually no matter where the starter came from. I suggest starting th sourdough with one of your favorite fruits. Try grapes. I have used potatoes, onions, pears, all stone fruits practically, and various other things to start my sourdough in the past. That can give you a really unique flavor. But once in a while you may end up finding yourself adding purchased yeast to the mix to get it going again, so you will just end up diluting the starter and it will always end up your personal one, whether you like it or not.

[LRunkle]

Thanks a lot for the replies. The link to http://www.sourdo.com/ was particularly interesting. I will try my hand soon.

[Obese-Wan Kenobi]

Hi,

Was going to bake some sourdough tomorrow so I prepared everything yesterday and today.

I turned my wet starter into a firm one and let it ferment for 8 hours.

Then I turned my firm starter into a levain and let that ferment for 8 hours.

Then I let my levain retard in the ref for the final dough mixture tomorrow morning.

But, I got a call and I can't work on it tomorrow anymore.

So my question is how long can I keep that fermented levain in the ref and keep it fully active until I can finish the dough for baking?

Thank you!

Edited September 6, 2011 by Obese-Wan Kenobi (log)

[Norm Matthews]

Please explain what you mean when you say you turn your wet starter into a firm one and I have never heard of making a levain from a yeasty starter either, much less doing it in 8 hours, but if a wet starter gets thoroughly chilled, you need to bring it back to room temperature and feed it again before using it. One feeding will do unless it has been more that a couple of weeks. You should be able to tell when its ready. If you made a dough ( firm starter?) then it will be ready to go once it has warmed up and risen. It should last at least a couple of days in the fridge.

[Obese-Wan Kenobi]

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the reply! What I mean is I have a "chef" in the fridge for many years. I feed it and maintain it. When I want to make bread, I usually get two tablespoons of this "chef" (wet sourdough) a few tablespoons of water and flour to form a firm dough that I let ferment for 8-12 hours which I called a "firm starter." From this firm starter, I add more flour and water to make a levain, to which I will add my final additions of flour and water to use to bake the bread. Is that clearer?

I'm at the stage of an almost fully ripe levain that's retarding in the ref. So that will last a few days? 3-5 days?

Regards!

[HungryC]

Depending on the strength of your culture, it should be fine for a day or two. The problem is not whether the yeast will be sufficient to raise the bread, but rather that it will become increasingly sour.

[Obese-Wan Kenobi]

HungryC,

OK, copy. Thanks. Actually, I don't mind the sourness. I prefer it more sour than the standard anyway. I was worried about getting the rise. Since you say that's the least of my worries, I think I'll be fine.

Cheers!

[Alcuin]

How much of your starter do you use in your final dough? I use a lot (200g flour/100ml H20 + culture for a bread that totals 625g flour/450ml H20 including the starter). I find that if I let this initial build go too long, I get a very slack dough without the structure to hold up as well as usual. It's definitely a fine balance to strike sometimes. I'd let it go until it gets to the look/feel you're used to when you bake without retarding it. I would definitely check it after 24 hours.

edited for clarity

Edited September 7, 2011 by Alcuin (log)

[Obese-Wan Kenobi]

Thanks Alcuin,

Yeah, checked on it after about 20 hours in the ref, it was so active and looking like a giant marshmallow ready to blow! I had to finish it off before it was too late.

Turned out really well.

Thanks all for your inputs.

[boudin noir]

I recently decided to venture into the world of sourdough. I wanted to use a wild yeast starter. Following directions I found on the web I mixed 1oz of water with 1 oz of flour. Mixed. Day 2 I mixed. Day 3 added same amounts of flour and water. A few bubbles. Day 4 more bubbles, fed it again. Day 5 and 6 still more bubbles and fed each day. Day 7 fewer bubbles, texture thinning, fed again. Added a small amount of dried yeast. Day 8 tried to make bread. Did not rise. What happened?

[avaserfi]

A healthy sourdough starter can take a couple weeks to really get going. It sounds like you had some activity, but the starter still needs some nurturing before you can really bake with it. From what I have read, bacterial growth occurs first creating the environment wild yeast need. Eventually, a balance between the wild yeast and bacteria is reached and the starter is ready to work. Of course, the baker can control this balance to some extent through feeding intervals, hydration, flour and other additives.

I would also avoid adding dry yeast to the starter, there is no purpose. Instead encourage the growth of wild yeast and bacteria by feeding regularly. Once it is healthy you can store the starter in the fridge between uses, just make sure to feed it once or twice before trying to bake with it. In my experience, once a starter doubles in size four hours after a feeding it is pretty healthy. A very healthy one will quadruple in size in the same time.

I also suggest you read this post on sourdough starters by Peter Reinhart. It discusses one potential issue with making a starter that plagued me when I first made mine a few years ago. In the end, the problem is just a bump in the road, but it is good to know about because it can slow the growth of your real starter as you culture an unwanted bacteria which masquerades as yeast. Eventually, the bacteria kills itself allowing for the proper microbial growth, but it can add a couple weeks to your process.

[boudin noir]

I read peter reinharts post. He seems to descrbe what happened to my starter pretty accurately. Thanks.

[Karri]

Hi all, I have a problem and I was hoping someone could help me.

So, I've been attempting to make a sourdough starter. The recipe I got for it from a Spanish baker's -named Xavier Barriga -book, and it gives strict instructions to this:

Step 1 cut up two apples and remove seeds, place in airtight container with 25g of honey and cover with mineral water. Store at 35 - 40 degrees celsius for 5 days.

Step 2. Strain and mix in 100g of "harina integral", in english I believe it's unprocessed flour. Store this in airtight container at 35 - 40C for 48 hours.

Step 3. Weigh 100g of this mix and mix in 300g of warm mineral water and 300g of "harina de fuerza" I think it's bread flour in English, 12g of protein/100g. Store again airtight but at 30C for 24 hours.

Step 4. Weigh 150g of this and stir with 250g water and 250g of flour as before. 24 hours, 28 degrees

Step 5. 150g mix 300g water, 300g flour, 6 hours 28 degrees and it should be ready.

My problem is this. The starter is very wet. It's the consistency of very wet and sticky porridge. And when I try to make bread with it, the bread won't rise at all. It just turns sour. The starter itself just creates these tiny bubbles that have the same color as soap bubbles...

Can someone please offer guidance or a better recipe? Thank you!

[Panaderia Canadiense]

Harina Integral in English is actually Whole Wheat flour, and Harina de Fuerza is probably best translated as high-gluten flour. Regular bread flour has less gluten in it than Fuerza does.

I've always had excellent luck with a potato, boiled and then riced, left in a standard bread flour sponge (1C water, 2C flour) on the counter, in my little stone crock which has an ill-fitting lid. It sours in about 3 days and provides a lovely rise.

[Zacky]

Add a slice of rhubarb to the starter? Essentially - you are trying to capture the wild yeast bacteria that live in the environment, so don't go around spraying everything with "Kills 99% of all known bacteria" sprays! Temperature, enough flour for the bacteria to feed off and the right amount of water are all key - as is patience! Good luck.

[Karri]

Thank you very much for the translations! I'll try the potato because it's too hot here to grow rhubarb.

[pkeibel]

My sourdough is stored in a crock. It is not airtight. Not sure but if its airtight how are the yeast to grow?

[gfweb]

Harina Integral in English is actually Whole Wheat flour, and Harina de Fuerza is probably best translated as high-gluten flour. Regular bread flour has less gluten in it than Fuerza does.

I've always had excellent luck with a potato, boiled and then riced, left in a standard bread flour sponge (1C water, 2C flour) on the counter, in my little stone crock which has an ill-fitting lid. It sours in about 3 days and provides a lovely rise.

Isn't boiling the potato defeating the purpose? Or is the potato just yeast-chow?

[qrn]

Hi all, I have a problem and I was hoping someone could help me.

So, I've been attempting to make a sourdough starter. The recipe I got for it from a Spanish baker's -named Xavier Barriga -book, and it gives strict instructions to this:

Step 1 cut up two apples and remove seeds, place in airtight container with 25g of honey and cover with mineral water. Store at 35 - 40 degrees celsius for 5 days.

Step 2. Strain and mix in 100g of "harina integral", in english I believe it's unprocessed flour. Store this in airtight container at 35 - 40C for 48 hours.

Step 3. Weigh 100g of this mix and mix in 300g of warm mineral water and 300g of "harina de fuerza" I think it's bread flour in English, 12g of protein/100g. Store again airtight but at 30C for 24 hours.

Step 4. Weigh 150g of this and stir with 250g water and 250g of flour as before. 24 hours, 28 degrees

Step 5. 150g mix 300g water, 300g flour, 6 hours 28 degrees and it should be ready.

My problem is this. The starter is very wet. It's the consistency of very wet and sticky porridge. And when I try to make bread with it, the bread won't rise at all. It just turns sour. The starter itself just creates these tiny bubbles that have the same color as soap bubbles...

Can someone please offer guidance or a better recipe? Thank you!

try here, good folks,,http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough/topics

[Isabelle Prescott]

I finally got to meet my internet friend, Amanda, in person. She lives in Australia and we originally "met" on a recipe forum many years ago. While she was in the US I wanted to share my sourdough starter with her. I knew she wouldn't be able to take it in liquid form on the plane so I dried some and put it in an envelope for her.

She reconstituted it when she got back to Adelaide and made some beautiful loaves of sourdough bread. She writes a food blog: http://www.lambsearsandhoney.com/ There are pictures of her sourdough loaves made with my starter in the blog if you want to see them. They look better than mine... but its fun to know that something I created in my kitchen is now feeding Amanda's family in Australia.

[Joe Blowe]

Tips on reconstituting dried starter can be found on Carl's Sourdough page