Two Days in Paris

[daisy17]

3) Any sort of food shops really worth seeking out would be great.  Cheese shops, notable bakeries, charcuterie, markets stuff like that.  I know there's so much there that I'll just be overwhelmed and want to focus my efforts during my limited time.  Just give me the best of each category, or perhaps a place where there's a nice concentration of things and I'll be golden.

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Bryan,

For cheese shops, I love Barthelemy at 51, rue de Grenelle (7eme/7th arrondisement) and Marie-Anne Cantin at 12, rue du Champ-du-Mars, also in the 7th.

Patisseries - on my first trip to paris when I was 16 I went into almost every patisserie I passed. You never know which neighborhood bakery is going to be exceptional. My personal favorite for many years is Gerard Mulot on rue de Seine in the 6th - an excellent traditional patisserie. Around the corner on rue Bonaparte (right across from St. Sulpice) is Pierre Herme, whose macarons absolutely rock. There are threads here that debate whose macarons are the best. I think Herme wins.

Enjoy. Paris is magical. One tip - when you enter a shop, greet the shopkeeper by saying bonjour, and say merci, au revoir when you leave. You'll be treated so much better if you observe these french customs, even if you have to speak english the whole time.

[John Talbott]

I also know that l'Ami Jean is in the area and while lots of people say it's good I wonder if it's the best quintessientially Parisian bistro experience I can have.  I bring this up because it is Basque cuisine, and since I will be heading to Spain the next day, perhaps I should do something else.

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I will not be posting my notes for some time on another Basque resto, but two of us ate yesterday at Au Bascou in the 3rd where Bertrand Gueneron, ex-Lucas Carton/Senderens has been for almost a year. I think he has a lighter touch than Stephane Jego, the ex-Regalade dude at l'Ami Jean and if you're going to do Basque - I'd pump for Au Bascou, although everyone else, led by Felice and Sebastien Demorand ex of Zurban, both of whom I respect enormously, loves l'Ami Jean. And recall that little food in Spain will be Basque like these two places, especially in Madrid or Barcelona if that's where you're going.

[BryanZ]

So I've definitely decided to stay in the 7e. I'm still torn between one of my dinners, however. As I already noted, I'm going to Les Magnolias one night. For the other, is Chez l'Ami Jean more "Parisian" than Les Violons? I've heard really good things about both places.

I'm looking for a quintessentially Parisian bistro experience. It's my understanding is that Les Violons is now like an upscale bistro (as opposed to the formal concept of a few years ago). Is the cooking at Les Violons evocative of bistro cooking in France?

Someone mentioned the restaurant that Bourdain visited in the No Reservations: Paris show but said the food isn't that great. Is there something like that with really awesome, soulful food for about 45 Euro/person?

[Truc]

Hello, just some personal advice, i think having livedand worked in France for a while, i find that you can go to majority of the cafes and bistros and get a great meal. MY favourite was just wxploring the local scene and trying the food at the hole in the wall places and they always turn out great.

Also, the attitudes from the south of France to the North of France vary greatly. The south is more realxed and everyone is much more pleasant. The north is more umm... how to I put this... more stressed and a little rude. Paris is a great city though i visited all the land marks and you could have stayed int he louvre for days not really scratch the surface.

Food quality throughout France though is superb. I can't say the same for London though, don't get me started n my stay there. Its kinda hit and miss there. I just loved how the French viewed food there, its amazing, just the level of respect and quality there is hard to find here. As for suggestions to restaurants, I dont really, know, most of them are amazing anyway.

[markk]

I've known people who didn't plan Parisian meals in advance, but just wandered the neighborhood where their hotel was, at night. You certainly could stumble in to a great meal, but when you're only there for two days, it's very natural to want to line up sure things. It'd be a shame to have only two dinners in Paris and have one of them be a dud. I've had dud meals in Paris and elsewhere in France for sure.

[Louisa Chu]

So I've definitely decided to stay in the 7e.  I'm still torn between one of my dinners, however.  As I already noted, I'm going to Les Magnolias one night.  For the other, is Chez l'Ami Jean more "Parisian" than Les Violons?  I've heard really good things about both places.

I'm looking for a quintessentially Parisian bistro experience.  It's my understanding is that Les Violons is now like an upscale bistro (as opposed to the formal concept of a few years ago).  Is the cooking at Les Violons evocative of bistro cooking in France?

Someone mentioned the restaurant that Bourdain visited in the No Reservations: Paris show but said the food isn't that great.  Is there something like that with really awesome, soulful food for about 45 Euro/person?

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Le Bistro Paul Bert is a hipster bistro - Le Violon d'Ingres, now an upscale bistro - and Chez l'Ami Jean, a modern Basque bistro. Chez Denise is a hardcore quintessential Parisian bistro-bistro. It's crowded, smoky, loud, serves Flintstonian steaks with sides of bone marrow, platters of frites, and red wine from a barrel. It's not gastronomic cuisine but I'm very fond of the place.

[Ptipois]

I went to Chez Denise some time in the past  year or so and think for food you can do better.  It certainly has that certain ambiance of what people imagine a Paris bistro to look like, but food wise there are better choices.  For something similar but with better food, maybe the Bistro Paul Bert?

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I agree about Chez Denise. It has been undergoing some sort of "l'amilouisation" in recent years. Food is so-so, though I hear the beef is still good. Anyway the place doesn't become interesting before 1 AM, when its true nature of late-night restaurant for theatergoers and party sluts takes over. Until that hour it is no more than a tourist trap.

[Ptipois]

I will not be posting my notes for some time on another Basque resto, but two of us ate yesterday at Au Bascou in the 3rd where Bertrand Gueneron, ex-Lucas Carton/Senderens has been for almost a year.  I think he has a lighter touch than Stephane Jego, the ex-Regalade dude at l'Ami Jean and if you're going to do Basque - I'd pump for Au Bascou, although everyone else, led by Felice and Sebastien Demorand ex of Zurban, both of whom I respect enormously, loves l'Ami Jean.  And recall that little food in Spain will be Basque like these two places, especially in Madrid or Barcelona if that's where you're going.

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Au Bascou is very, very nice. The "lighter touch" is a reality. Desserts are excellent, particularly a scrumptious and feather-light millefeuille. It serves some Basque (actually basco-béarnais) dishes without pulling too hard on the the folkloric strings, and the food can be amazingly delicate. However I won't compare Au Bascou with L'Ami Jean because the two bistrots play on different scales. Au Bascou has more of the Paris bistrot style, while L'Ami Jean's cooking is more striking and much more soulful.

Edited February 12, 2007 by Ptipois (log)

[Ptipois]

So I've definitely decided to stay in the 7e.  I'm still torn between one of my dinners, however.  As I already noted, I'm going to Les Magnolias one night.  For the other, is Chez l'Ami Jean more "Parisian" than Les Violons?  I've heard really good things about both places.

I'm looking for a quintessentially Parisian bistro experience.  It's my understanding is that Les Violons is now like an upscale bistro (as opposed to the formal concept of a few years ago).  Is the cooking at Les Violons evocative of bistro cooking in France?

Someone mentioned the restaurant that Bourdain visited in the No Reservations: Paris show but said the food isn't that great.  Is there something like that with really awesome, soulful food for about 45 Euro/person?

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"Les Violons", you mean Le Violon d'Ingres? It is by no means a bistrot, it is a restaurant, and though the prices are reasonable for a 1-star, and it serves some dishes typical of bistrot food (tête de veau for instance), they are prepared and served in a fashion, and in a setting, much more reminiscent of the old-fashioned Paris bourgeois restaurants than of bistrots.

By the way, it seems to me that you're spending more time thinking about which restaurants you should be going to than just embracing the experience in a more spontaneous way. My advice would be just to let yourself go, discover the city in a more relaxed way, and trust your senses. Whatever you will get will be a Paris experience. By planning it so carefully, you are at the risk of treading onto too-well-beaten paths and missing the "Paris" aspect. Or be led into places that are internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of.

Edit: I recommend "Aux Zingots", near the gare de l'Est (rue de la Fidélité), for a visually striking Paris experience. A large bistrot that used to be a ballroom and a pool room, run by former owner of Chez Ramulaud, gorgeous setting, spacious seating, food kind of hit-and-miss but very decent most of the time, great cheap wines and wonderful cheeses. Better avoid the desserts (unless they hired a new pâtissier since last Fall).

Edited February 12, 2007 by Ptipois (log)

[LESider]

Brian, I just visited Paris a few weeks ago and stayed in Le Marais at Hotel des Archives. I booked it through this hotel website (http://www.hotels-paris.fr/) and it was 115 euro a night. The rooms were small but clean and its right near the Pompadou Center,not far from the Louve, and walking distance to the Latin Quarter.

We had a really nice lunch at les bouquinistes ( http://www.lesbouquinistes.com) which Guy Savoy consulted on the menu. Had a delicous lamb carpaccio for a starter and a perfectly cooked Brandade for a main.

I would recommend skipping the Bon Marche. I found it expensive and there are many more small shops and marches that are cheaper and just as interesting. Truth is if you want to buy things like Mustard , Salt and wine ,visit a supermarket.

Enjoy the trip !

[Ptipois]

I would recommend skipping the Bon Marche. I found it expensive and there are many more small shops and marches that are cheaper and just as interesting. Truth is if you want to buy things like Mustard , Salt and wine ,visit a supermarket.

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Le Bon Marché is okay for things you won't find elsewhere, like spices and sauces, stuff from remote regions or countries, faddy foods and the odd luxury item. It is not for everyday shopping. Same can be said about Lafayette Gourmet, which seems to have a slightly wider choice of items.

By the way, I think la Grande Epicerie du Bon Marché is co-run by Monoprix, and concerning everyday non-luxury foods like fruit, vegetables, meats, groceries, etc., you will find exactly the same at any Monoprix in Paris.

Edited February 12, 2007 by Ptipois (log)

[BryanZ]

"Les Violons", you mean Le Violon d'Ingres? It is by no means a bistrot, it is a restaurant, and though the prices are reasonable for a 1-star, and it serves some dishes typical of bistrot food (tête de veau for instance), they are prepared and served in a fashion, and in a setting, much more reminiscent of the old-fashioned Paris bourgeois restaurants than of bistrots.

By the way, it seems to me that you're spending more time thinking about which restaurants you should be going to than just embracing the experience in a more spontaneous way. My advice would be just to let yourself go, discover the city in a more relaxed way, and trust your senses. Whatever you will get will be a Paris experience. By planning it so carefully, you are at the risk of treading onto too-well-beaten paths and missing the "Paris" aspect. Or be led into places that are internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of.

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It was my understanding that Le Violon d'Ingres underwent a concept change a couple years ago, efffectively making it an upscale bistrot serving very well-executed food. Th 45 Euro menu sounds good and with minimal wine is still more or less in my budget. I still wonder, however, if it is "fancier" than the experience I'm looking for.

I, too, have also read that Chez Denise is best for late-night. What if I, like, had dinner, took a nap, then had late-night dinner at Chez Denise for the atmosphere. Do they have a smaller steak for one? Will it be worth it on a Wednesday or Thursday night, and do I need reservations for like a 1AM reso? Louisa Chu, I know you've got answers to these questions.

ETA: I'm taking a poll on hotels. To keep this marginally food related, one is on Rue Cler, the other is one block away on a street that runs parallel.

The first hotel, Hotel Leveque, is 90 Euro/night. Although it is on Rue Cler, I was unable to get a room facing the street. The website kind of sucks, but I've heard good things.

The second hotel, Hotel Valadon, is one block over toward the Champs de Mars on Rue Valadon. This hotel 120 Euro/night. The difference between the two for both nights could mean a light meal for the two of us somewhere. Both are a few minutes walk from the Eccole Militare metro station.

Edited February 12, 2007 by BryanZ (log)

[markk]

By the way, it seems to me that you're spending more time thinking about which restaurants you should be going to than just embracing the experience in a more spontaneous way. My advice would be just to let yourself go, discover the city in a more relaxed way, and trust your senses. Whatever you will get will be a Paris experience. By planning it so carefully, you are at the risk of treading onto too-well-beaten paths and missing the "Paris" aspect. Or be led into places that are internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of.

That's a good point, though I also understand the fear of having one of your only-two meals in Paris be a dud.

So here's a question for you. In the introductory pages of the Guide Michelin's red-lipped Paris pages (in the center of the book) are all kinds of great lists and compilations, and a section headed "Le plat que vous recherchez" (the dish you're looking for), which lists traditional dishes (une andouillette, du boudin, un cassoulet, un confit, une bouillabaisse, de la tete de veau, etc...), and none of the restaurants listed comes under the "internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of" category for sure. Let me type in the places listed for a cassoulet, and ask, are any of these any good?:

Benoit

D'Chez Eux

Julien

Chez Leon

Pays de Cocagne

Quercy

Sarladais

A Souscyrac

St-Pierre a Longjumeau

Table d'Antan

Au Trou Gascon

Auberge Pyrenees Cevennes

Dauphon

Gastroquet

de Marche

Quincy

Thoumieux

In the days when I used to go to Paris a lot, the menus at D'Chez Eux, A Sousceyrac, and Thoumieux were dripping with the most mouth-watering dishes I could imagine - cassoulet, Bresse chickens stuffed with foie-gras, slabs of foie-gras, confits (but you couldn't see in the restaurant for the dense clouds of smoke, which mean I couldn't indulge). What's the current deal with these places? Are these the traditional bistros that Bryan is hoping for?

[John Talbott]

By the way, it seems to me that you're spending more time thinking about which restaurants you should be going to than just embracing the experience in a more spontaneous way. My advice would be just to let yourself go, discover the city in a more relaxed way, and trust your senses. Whatever you will get will be a Paris experience. By planning it so carefully, you are at the risk of treading onto too-well-beaten paths and missing the "Paris" aspect. Or be led into places that are internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of.

I agree; I think you're getting too much info and are suffering from info overload. Don't worry as much about gastobistros vs classic bistros, etc, nor Bon Marche vs Monoprix. Just do it.

Let me type in the places listed for a cassoulet, and ask, are any of these any good?

Pays de Cocagne looked pretty closed but the last time I ate at l'Auberge Pyrenees Cevennes the cassoulet was great, albeit too much.

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[Ptipois]

but the last time I ate at l'Auberge Pyrenees Cevennes the cassoulet was great, albeit too much.

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Oh, John, not too much cassoulet just isn't cassoulet!

To Markk:

I believe that part of the Michelin at least should be reliable. If they go to such lengths as to list the best dishes in their categories, I should expect them to proceed on rather solid ground, with the added fact that letters from disagreeing readers would soon set them right.

But, of course, I haven't tried cassoulet at those places (I make my own or I buy it canned) but they all have a good reputation for cassoulet.

Le Violon d'Ingres is also supposed to have good cassoulet. I can testify that the cassoulet at L'Ecureuil, l'Oie et le Canard (5e, rue Linné) is very nice and it isn't in the list.

[markk]

If I thought that D'Chez Eux, A Sousceyrac, and Thoumieux were still what they used to be, I'd suggest that he go to one of those in a heartbeat! I just didn't want it to be the case that that kind of food had fallen out of favor, and that they were sold to people who don't have the same standards, or something (which I doubt), but you never know.

As far as the comment "I think you're getting too much info and are suffering from info overload", yes that's true, but also no, that's not a bad thing. Personally, I'm obsessive about researching trips in advance. I get ahold of the menu of every restaurant I'm considering, etc, and I go so far as to make reservations for every meal... but, it works out that I usually don't keep them, and wind up just following my nose and my instincts anyway, except that at that point I'm working from a very informed level. We chuckle here when we look at all the trip calendars and the penciled-in, carefully researched reservations which didn't get followed at all once we got to where we were going. Still, it's good to go in having done your research, and it can absoultely enhance the pleasure of the trip. It takes away some of the feeling of "overwhelm" when you get to a new place, and gives you a bit of a sense of perspective for first-time exploration, I find.

[markk]

And in fact it might be fun for Bryan to go here and check out the "La Carte" link at the top of the page (not the Cafe menu at the bottom):

Brasserie Thoumieux

and here"

d'chez eux

Mmm!

Is this what he's looking for one night? This is food he won't get in the States.

Edited February 12, 2007 by markk (log)

[Louisa Chu]

It was my understanding that Le Violon d'Ingres underwent a concept change a couple years ago, efffectively making it an upscale bistrot serving very well-executed food.  Th 45 Euro menu sounds good and with minimal wine is still more or less in my budget.  I still wonder, however, if it is "fancier" than the experience I'm looking for.

I, too, have also read that Chez Denise is best for late-night.  What if I, like, had dinner, took a nap, then had late-night dinner at Chez Denise for the atmosphere.  Do they have a smaller steak for one?  Will it be worth it on a Wednesday or Thursday night, and do I need reservations for like a 1AM reso?  Louisa Chu, I know you've got answers to these questions.

ETA:  I'm taking a poll on hotels.  To keep this marginally food related, one is on Rue Cler, the other is one block away on a street that runs parallel.

The first hotel, Hotel Leveque, is 90 Euro/night.  Although it is on Rue Cler, I was unable to get a room facing the street.  The website kind of sucks, but I've heard good things.

The second hotel, Hotel Valadon, is one block over toward the Champs de Mars on Rue Valadon.  This hotel 120 Euro/night.  The difference between the two for both nights could mean a light meal for the two of us somewhere.  Both are a few minutes walk from the Eccole Militare metro station.

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Bryan - Le Violon did change but just last year (I do think it's fancier than what you're looking for too).

Thatta boy - going for the Parisian fourthmeal! Chez Denise does have smaller steaks for one - and if that's the only time you can get there, sure it's worth it - you probably don't need the reservation at that hour but make it anyway - they'll take it. (And at that hour you have a better chance of talking them into letting you down in the cellar - look for the skulls towards the back.)

[BryanZ]

I'm aiming for Parisian fifth-, sixth-, and seventh-meals in the course of each day.

I'm now the proud holder of lunch resos at Pierre Gagnaire and l'Astrance. I'm seriously best friends with a host of Amex conceirges, I've been calling them so much over the course of the week. I'm mo' pumped.

[hughw]

Maybe not a 5th meal, but for a great snack go to La Poilane bakery at 8 Rue Cherche Midi in the 6th and buy an apple turnover to eat on the street.

[ariggsby]

I'm taking a trip similar to Bryan's, and I've been looking at menus on-line, which got me to thinking about the following: what season (culinarily) is mid-March in Paris? Late winter? Early spring?

Thanks,

Andrew

[BryanZ]

In this way, it seems that the timing of our trips is slightly unfortunate. We're kind of missing out on black truffle season, yet it's probably still too early for spring produce.

[Ptipois]

In this way, it seems that the timing of our trips is slightly unfortunate.  We're kind of missing out on black truffle season, yet it's probably still too early for spring produce.

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It won't be quite the end of the truffle season yet, though I doubt you'll find a lot of truffles on restaurant dishes. The season has been very poor this year.

And there will be some Spring produce, mid-March is early Spring. First produce actually begin reaching the stalls in February.

Stop worrying, you'll have a good time, Paris is great any time of the year!

[HOLLY_L]

(You do know which restaurant employees you're allowed to make eye contact with and not, and which you're allowed to speak directly to and not, and all that stuff, right?)

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I don't; I'd be thankful to learn.

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If there are employees I shouldn't even make eye contact with, I'd be interested to know that too.

[markk]

(You do know which restaurant employees you're allowed to make eye contact with and not, and which you're allowed to speak directly to and not, and all that stuff, right?)

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I don't; I'd be thankful to learn.

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If there are employees I shouldn't even make eye contact with, I'd be interested to know that too.

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It was just a parenthetical joke - I was teasing Bryan after we had discussed one thing he hadn't known about dining in France and another that he did know. ()