Two Days in Paris

[paulbrussel]

First lunch was at Le Grand Véfour, a three star restaurant in the old buildings of the Royal Palace. Chef is the young Guy Martin. At lunch time there is only the lunch menu: four courses (starter, main course, fromages and dessert) with a choice out of 3 for the three courses. Or you can eat à la carte.

After my glass of champagne (Taittinger), I chose half a bottle Saint-Véran – Château de Beauregard 1999, which was good.

The meal: starter was : Sardines marinées aux aromates, purée de pois chiche et menthe - excellent sardines, filled with a very soft bean puree.

Then: Dos de cabillaud cuit meunière, croûte aux olives de Nyons, huile verte, tomate et cèleri blanche. Well prepared cod, but the interesting about this was the crust of olives. With the cheese I took a glass of > 10 years old port of Nieupoort. As a dessert: Mille-feuille aux framboises, chutney de mangue au pollen, which I found a bit normal.

Good service in very classical setting. [My personal ranking: 18.5/20]

Dinner was at Apicius, a two star restaurant with Jean-Pierre Vigato as chef. There I took the Menu dégustation of 5 courses, with different wines.

After the amuse-geule: P’tit Pot de Foie Gras à la Vapeur – Réduction de Porto. Excellent steamed (!) duck liver with the nice sauce of porto. Wine: Banyuls La Rectorie 2000.

Next course: Ravioli de Homard – Jus de crustacés au basilic, with: Pernand-Vergelesses – Rapet 2000. Half of the lobster was cooked too long, and not OK. They offered me an extra course to compensate this.

Third course: Cabillaud rôti et artichaut violet and whine: Quincy 2001. Good cod and very nice with the young artichoke.

Extra course: Rouget, hachis d’huître et cresson, same whine. This was really excellent. Nice red mullet, but much more interesting was the mixture of oyster and cress. For me the best dish this evening.

Main course: Suprême de Pigeon sous le grill; as a whine I got a glass of the magnum of another table with one of the best wines: Pichon Longueville – Comtesse de Lalande – 1989. Very good pigeon, and I did enjoy the wine very much, although it was still very young.

After the cheese followed the dessert: Fondue de Framboises et Glace Pistache Minute.

Good restaurant, although I was not really excited about any of the dishes. [My personal ranking: 15.5/20]

Next day I went lunching at Le Carré des Feuillants, a two star restaurant with the famous chef Alain Dutournier. After the Champagne Delamotte “ Blanc de Blancs” 1995, I chose the Menu “Idées de la Saison” which consisted out of seven courses. For the whine, I chose a bottle Saint-Aubin – La Pucelle (Domaine Roux) 1999. Good wine.

First course: Huîtres Spéciales “Gillardeau” et Caviar d’Aquitane – accompagnées d’un tartare de laitue de mer et d’une mousse d’huître crémeuse. Astonishing dish in three parts. The special oysters with a jelly, a mixture of avocado and oyster and thirdly a cream of poached oysters.

Second course: Homard bleu, Fenouil et Amandes en Escabèche – Fraîcheurs du jardin, pince en bouillon glacé au lait d’amande. Excellent lobster that came with almonds and the fenouil. Second service was the icy soupe of almonds with lobster, also very, very nice!

Next course: Pavé de Bar de Ligne en fine croûte de coriandre – Légumes d’été en tajine. Good sea brass that came in a sort of bouillon of herbs which was very fine too.

After a surprise came the next dish: Les langoustines pimentées et rôties – Nougatine d'ail doux, réduction de muscat au piment d'Espelette et cébettes. Ingeniously prepared langoustines in different ways, well combined with the sauce of muscat whine.

Main course: Filet de Pigeonneau Cuit Rosé, Flanqué de Foie Gras Caramélisé – La cuise compotée en rouleau, quelques girolles et petits pois. Very well prepared young pigeon breast with the spring roll and the liver. A red whine by the glass was suggested.

Then: Brie de Meaux et Truffe d'Eté, Litchis à la Gelée de Rose and Les Cérises Burlat en Jubilé "Façon Forêt Verte" – cerises flambées au kirsch, petits babas chocolatées et verveine crémeuse.

One of the best meals I ever had, especially because of the top class ingredients and excellent preparation. [My personal ranking: 19/20]

For dinner I ended up in Les Béatilles, a one star restaurant. I took the more simple Menu d'un Soir with three courses: Petit farci à la tomate et escargots, girolles et jus de persil simple, Parmentier de ris de veau et champignons des bois, jus clair and Feuilleté léger au beurre demi-sel, poire et fenouil confit.

Good value for money. More modern cuisine but not always harmonious. [My personal ranking: 14/20]

Edited August 8, 2003 by paulbrussel (log)

[fresh_a]

"Gay" Martin!! Yikes!

[paulbrussel]

Txs. Changed into Guy!

[John Whiting]

And in the middle of a heat wave! Had you thought of sending this to the Guiness Book of Records? (And what did you manage for breakfast? )

[Bux]

Might I be so vulgar as to ask for the cost of the menus you had? I know Grand Vefour gets about a third of the dinner price for its lunch menu and it sounds like a particularly good deal. On the other hand, as I've mentioned on another thread, I've had both the seasonal dégustation menu and the lunch special at Carré des Feuillants where the spread was almost the same, but I found the much more expensive dinner menu to be the better value. Had I come to lunch without ever having the dinner experience, I might have been impressed by the preparations, but they didn't have the depth or scope of the creativity and complexity of the dishes on the seasonal dinner menu. It was some years ago and in the fall, so it was completely different from what you had, but in the abstract, your menu reminds me of that meal. Your lunch at Grand Vefour seems almost perfect, but I wonder how well it conveys what Guy Martin can do. I have not eaten at Guy Martin and have heard lunch is a good way to enjoy the restaurant, but I have been unsure if that's because of the good deal, or the light.

[paulbrussel]

Robert, the prices:

Le Grand Véfour: menu: 75 €; Champagne: 18, Saint-Véran: 29, water: 4, porto: 16, coffee: 5,50; total: 147,50 €. [Tasting menu: 227 €, not at lunch time.]

Apicius: tasting menu: 104 €; 1 1/2 water: 12, 4 whines by the glass: 36; total: 152 €.

Le Carré des Feuillants: tasting menu: 138 €, Champagne: 18, Saint-Aubin 1999: 55, water: 8, coffee: 7; total: 238 €. [Lunch menu: 58 €.]

Les Béatilles: menu 45 €; half white wine: 26 € (for an excellent Saint-Joseph 2001), 1 liter water : 6 €; total: 77€.

Edited August 8, 2003 by paulbrussel (log)

[paulbrussel]

(And what did you manage for breakfast?  )

Strange enough: I didn't have breakfast! :-)

[BryanZ]

Hi. You'll have to forgive the somewhat incongruous subtitle; it was chosen in an attempt to garner more attention for this thread with the promise of excitement and nubile college debauchery.

Unfortunately, that's not really the case. But I will be going to Paris for the first time over my spring break in mid-March. I'm looking for all sorts of recommendations. I've read the threads and have collected a good deal of information, but I'm trusting you all to help me out with the (numerous) particulars. I'm not much of a participant on the France board, but it's not for want of enthusiasm.

As an aside, I don't speak any French. This is also my first time to Europe. Is this going to be a problem? But I will eat absolutely anything.

Anyway, here's what I'm looking for, in order of importance.

1) One or two, two-three star Michelin lunches. So far I'm looking at Taillevent, Le Cinq, Ledoyen on the low (read: realistic) end of the price scale. In other words, I know these places have lunches from around 70 Euro (lunch special at Taillevent) to slightly north of 100 Euro ("light" tasting menu at Le Cinq). But there's always the appeal of the big boys at Ambroisie, Arpege, Guy Savoy, Gagnaire, etc. I am particularly interested in Gagnaire's lunch prices, as I can't find any details online. Can I get a nice lunch there for around 100-120 Euro? If you're not familiar with my tastes and work from other threads, I'm very interested in modern food* and would love to go to Michel Bras but simply cannot logistically. Is Pierre Gagnaire a reality? I know Savoy has an "internet only" 100 Euro lunch, but the way they make it sound it seems so gauche. Does anyone know if it's worth it? I'd really prefer a three-star restaurant (though I've read the rumors that both Le Cinc and Taillevent are losing a star each) but am okay with a two-star with modern, super compelling food. I also realized I'm only booking reservations about five weeks out. Will this be a problem, should I reserve via email?

2) A couple quintessentially Parisian dinners are also in order. I'm looking to keep prices in the less than 70 Euro range after taxes and gratuity. I don't need to drink much at all and would rather spend the majority of my money (or all of it) on food. Is it contrived to say I'm looking for a really awesome brasserie or bistro? Probably, but that's what I'm looking for. I'm more interested in super old-school, classical cooking or a modern-inflection. I'm not one for moderation.

3) Any sort of food shops really worth seeking out would be great. Cheese shops, notable bakeries, charcuterie, markets stuff like that. I know there's so much there that I'll just be overwhelmed and want to focus my efforts during my limited time. Just give me the best of each category, or perhaps a place where there's a nice concentration of things and I'll be golden.

4) Where should I stay? Any cheap hotel recommendations or general cool places I should try to locate myself? Something centrally located sounds good, but I really don't want the Parisian equivalent of Times Square (I know, I'm sorry, please don't be offended by the comparison). Although my Michelin dining aspirations may suggest otherwise, I'm a student and need to save money where I can.

453,308,375) I've heard there's like art and like museums and like cultural stuff and this big metal tower. Does that stuff actually exist? Is it worth seeking out in between otherwise perpetual eating?

Thank you so much for all your help. If any of you ever need recs in NYC, I'll save you some time and say Eleven Madison Park under Chef Humm, Jean-Georges for lunch, Katz's Deli and wd~50 back-to-back, Momofuku Ssam, Pegu Club, Death and Company, Milk and Honey (but watch out for the bridge and tunnel crowd on Wednesday(is-the-new-Thursday)-Sunday evenings). Your friends will be impressed with your foodie knowledge.

*For reference, I will be trying to visit the Fat Duck and Alkimia in England and Spain as other notable meals.

Edited February 5, 2007 by BryanZ (log)

[glauer]

Bryan:

from your posts in the NYC forum I would think that L'Arpege might be the place for the expensive *** experience. I found it truly unique and one of the few restaurants by which I divide my food life in "before" and "after". Regarding the smaller places you will find the most up to date advice in some recent listings on here.

Your trip sounds great, I am envious. First time Fat Duck will also be fun.

georg

Edited February 4, 2007 by glauer (log)

[markk]

I've heard there's like art and like museums and like cultural stuff and this big metal tower.  Does that stuff actually exist?

It does. I have seen the big metal tower with my own eyes.

Is it worth seeking out in between otherwise perpetual eating?

Nope. ("That stuff", I mean.) Though they're extremely nice when you pass them, and the tower's pretty magnificent. Many (many) years ago I gave up visiting these things in favor of what I really like to do when I'm in Europe: visit specialty stores that sell foods, ingredients, and the equipment what to cook them with. Cheese shops. Charcuteries. Bakeries. Patisseries. Open air food markets. And hypermarkets - yes, very especially much, hypermarkets! (Love to see what they're selling in theirs as opposed to what we're selling in ours.) I'd tell you to try fit in a visit to a mega 'Auchan' or 'Cora' if you can, unless this doesn't intruigue you. (The idea of the foie gras nibbles and portion-sized duck treats and "Stoufayr's" frozen Cassoulet really puts a smile on my face.) I plan my entire day around food-related shops, and if I happen to pass something else of interest, I admire it and look it up when I get back to the hotel - that's how I found out what that big metal tower was.

Anyway, how can "cultural stuff" hope ever compare with things like:

and

And, thanks for using "cultural stuff" and "nubile college debauchery" in the same sentence !!

[Bu Pun Su]

Hi Bryan,

Your plan trip sounds very fun. Let's see where I should start

Language ... don't worry about it. During my experience there, people seem to be very nice and understand that I don't speak French - both on the streets or inside restaurants (I still disagree when many say that French people are cocky or was I just fortunate to always meet the nice ones?) You should be fine with the reservation since Feb-Mar are usually not too crowded.

Now, to the more important topics ... the food

If you really want a modern ones, Pierre Gagnaire (only try the one in HK, but it's equivalent to my JGNY experience) and L'Arpege (simply the best overall dining experience I've ever had even when Passard's not in the kitchen) are the places to go. If not mistaken, L'Arpege lunch, including tips and tax, is somewhere 130-150 Euros (could be more if they're still in the black truffle seasons). Or I heard that L'Astrance is the new place to go.

For the classics options, Alain Ducasse (Almost perfect in every sense and yes their collection menu is better than the NY's truffle menu) and L'Ambroisie (rarely read negative reviews) are the top choices. However, it's unlikely that dinner in these 2 places would not damage one's wallet - expect 200 or more. The legendary Taillevent (don't know about the food) is more friendly in terms of the price with excellent service. How about lunch at Les Ambassadeurs or Le Meurice (70-80 euros)?

Personally, I think the 2 or 3-star Michelin restaurants in Europe is very unique, worth the money and the effort. After eating in Paris, (I could be bias) my dinner experiences in NY or Vegas are pale in comparison, I began to understand when many dining experts question the validity 3-star given in the US restaurants. Based on your extensive NY dining experiences, you should be able to handle the ones in Europe as well except maybe some restaurant's decoration is very luxurious and overwhelmed (but hey, that's also the cool part about the restaurant for the 1st-timer).

Well. feel free to PM if you have further questions. Good luck, have fun and look forward to your report.

[hshiau]

I've heard there's like art and like museums and like cultural stuff and this big metal tower.  Does that stuff actually exist?

It does. I have seen the big metal tower with my own eyes.

Is it worth seeking out in between otherwise perpetual eating?

Nope. ("That stuff", I mean.) Though they're extremely nice when you pass them, and the tower's pretty magnificent. Many (many) years ago I gave up visiting these things in favor of what I really like to do when I'm in Europe: visit specialty stores that sell foods, ingredients, and the equipment what to cook them with. Cheese shops. Charcuteries. Bakeries. Patisseries. Open air food markets. And hypermarkets - yes, very especially much, hypermarkets! (Love to see what they're selling in theirs as opposed to what we're selling in ours.) I'd tell you to try fit in a visit to a mega 'Auchan' or 'Cora' if you can, unless this doesn't intruigue you. (The idea of the foie gras nibbles and portion-sized duck treats and "Stoufayr's" frozen Cassoulet really puts a smile on my face.) I plan my entire day around food-related shops, and if I happen to pass something else of interest, I admire it and look it up when I get back to the hotel - that's how I found out what that big metal tower was.

I would disagree with that. As someone who just went to Paris for the first time, you need to experience more than the food. It's a completely different world from what we've got here in the US. The history, architecture, etc all needs to be experienced once just to really bring home the "Wow! I'm in Paris" idea. Food experiences are great but we're talking about a first trip to Paris.

[Megan Blocker]

Bryan, I am by no means a Paris expert, but the two dinners I had in October at Camille (on rue des Francs-Bourgeois in the Marais) were fantastic. Highly, highly recommended for wonderful bistro food. With wine and three courses, our bill for two came to about 80 euro both nights. Don't know if this is the quintessential Paris dining experience you're looking for, but it's where I'll be eating dinner when I go through on my way back from India in a few weeks...

[Megan Blocker]

I would disagree with that.  As someone who just went to Paris for the first time, you need to experience more than the food.  It's a completely different world from what we've got here in the US.  The history, architecture, etc all needs to be experienced once just to really bring home the "Wow! I'm in Paris" idea.  Food experiences are great but we're talking about a first trip to Paris.

←

Absolutely agree. By the third or fourth trip, you can focus exclusively on food. But the first time around? Please don't forget you're in one of the most striking cities in the world.

[BryanZ]

Thanks for the advice so far. I thought I'd also like Astrance to the list, since it's supposedly a two star restaurant with a modern bent and is getting lots of good press.

Also, I'd like to ask more explicitly for advice on how to make reservations. Since I don't speak a bit of French and don't have access to a land telephone line, I'm not sure of the best way to go. I have a g/f in London right now who might be able to find a French speaker to call for us, but ideally email would be best. Again, can I just do this in English? Is it tacky to ask for prices at two or three star restaurants? What about more casual places without dedicated reservations departments?

One thing I won't have a problem with is dress. I love wearing suits.

Edited February 5, 2007 by BryanZ (log)

[prasantrin]

If you have a computer with broadband or cable access, you can use Skype-Out to call if you figure out how to deal with the language issue. There must be someone around you who can speak French well enough to make reservations.

(no affiliation with them, but I've used both their free and pay-for-use services, and my savings account thanks me for that)

[Pontormo]

Bryan:

When exactly are you going--i.e. what days of the week?

Why only two days? I'd strongly recommend dividing your time just between England and France just to get to know two unfamiliar places a little better. The whirlwind thing works better with longer trips (summer, a semester abroad...)

I don't know how much non-food stuff is permissable in these threads, but I'd urge you to take the advice you've heard thus far.

You already have had amazing meals in restaurants that depend on French traditions. Treat yourself to a few memorable meals, of course, but you know that culture and you don't know Paris.

You should spend a lot of time just walking around. Be sure to cross the Pont Neuf and go to Sainte-Chapelle.

Review Megan's blog, but the best of culinary Paris isn't necessarily or exclusively to be found in elegant restaurants. Find out where the best croissants are to be had, take in an outdoor market...

P.S. The language thing is scary, I know. for the first time especially. However, really, Paris is like New York City in terms of cosmopolitan culture, only it's been going on for nearly six centuries. You'll find lots of nice, kind, helpful friendly people and should you ever get lost, all you have to do is descend into the metro. There's a subway station just about everywhere you go.

Learning a few phrases and words of courtesy before hand will take you far. I'm sure you already know, "merci" and "Foie gras, s'il vous plait".

Edited February 5, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[AlexBernardo]

I would disagree with that.  As someone who just went to Paris for the first time, you need to experience more than the food.  It's a completely different world from what we've got here in the US.  The history, architecture, etc all needs to be experienced once just to really bring home the "Wow! I'm in Paris" idea.  Food experiences are great but we're talking about a first trip to Paris.

←

Not true. I took a couple of friends to France last year. For both of them it was their first time. They never saw the Eiffel Tower, didn't visit the Louvre or any museums, didn't go inside the Notre Dame, and did not visit any historical landmark. Instead, we spent most of the time hitting bistros and cafes, wine bars and food stores. They told me it was the most memorable trip of their life. One of them is joining me again next month and I can tell you all that he's interested in is making reservations at various restaurants and checking out the jamon Iberico at Da Rosa.

[markk]

I would disagree with that.  As someone who just went to Paris for the first time, you need to experience more than the food.  It's a completely different world from what we've got here in the US.  The history, architecture, etc all needs to be experienced once just to really bring home the "Wow! I'm in Paris" idea.  Food experiences are great but we're talking about a first trip to Paris.

←

This is too happy a thread to have an unpleasant disagreement, but it's really a matter of what you enjoy doing. Personally, I don't like trekking to historical sites, or churches, or museums, or architectural wonders; I used to do it when I started going to Europe, and stopped when I realized that it's just not what I enjoy. For me, travel is about seeing how people live in various places. How and where they shop for food, and how they do their laundry. Honest. I go to supermarkets and laundromats, and bookstores, and wine stores, and that's how I pass my days when I'm in a foreign country. (I do love going to the opera wherever I am, but that's what I do here. Of course, it tends to get in the way of dinner, but that's another story.) But as I say, that's me. But if Bryan's obsessed with food, there's more than enough to keep him busy day and night, and I don't think he should force himself to do "cultural stuff" if he'd rather be doing food-related things.

[markk]

Also, I'd like to ask more explicitly for advice on how to make reservations... ideally email would be best.  Again, can I just do this in English?  Is it tacky to ask for prices at two or three star restaurants?  What about more casual places without dedicated reservations departments?

If you go to the Michelin site http://www.viamichelin.com/ and choose Restaurants (if you can't find it easily, go to the site map), and then Paris, you can get a listing of all the starred restaurants. When you go to the detail, you'll get a website and e-mail address for most of them. You can write in English, and you can ask them to attach you menus by return e-mail. I get menus e-mailed and faxed from France all the time - they're happy to do it. If you feel boorish writing in English, start out by apologizing for that, though in the restaurant industry, nobody will think it out of the ordinary.

[markk]

This is also my first time to Europe.  Is this going to be a problem?

All joking aside, have you given any thought to jet-lag, or do you have any experience with it flying eastward? Are you flying directly from the US to Paris?

I've slept through many first-night dinners, despite wake-up calls, and gotten up in the middle of the night with nothing open and nothing to eat.

[BryanZ]

I fly to and from Japan relatively frequently so jet-lag isn't so much a problem.

I am familiar with how to use the Michelin site, but am aprehensive to trust the prices held therein. I suppose just emailing is the best way to go about things.

As an aside, I've seen Chez l'Ami Jean mentioned by more than a few members and on other sites. Is this place as good as people say it is for traditional Parisian food?

And I know this thread is still in its infancy and thank everyone for their help thus far, but if I had to choose one focus I'd love to hear more about specific food destinations (ie names of restaurants or areas in Paris that fit with my criteria mentioned above).

Thanks a bunch.

[Forest]

Hi Bryan:

Re: cheap hotel recommendations, I'm not sure what you are looking to spend, but I've had friends stay in a couple that I would recommend in the 25 - 40 range/night. Hotel El Dorado in the 17th. This one's not as centrally located, but I think it's clean, friendly, very acceptable for the price. Also, even though you're not right in the center, it's very easy to take metros or buses from here to anywhere in town - and you are easy walking distance to Montmartre.

Or there is the hotel du sejour in the 3rd (I think), which is much more centrally located, but not as nice as the El Dorado. Both are easy to find info just by googling. Or I'll find their websites when I have a bit more time.

Anyway, if you decide on either of those, let me know, as I know both areas and could give you ideas on restaurants/food interests in the area. Or feel free to PM me for more hotel information.

Have fun!

[BryanZ]

Wow, 25-40 is cheap. Hmm, I was thinking like maybe 100ish Euro a night after occupancy taxes and stuff, maybe a bit less. Something analagous to like a $139 room at a Marriott in a US city or something.

[Bu Pun Su]

Regarding restaurant reservation

After making a hotel reservation, you could ask the hotel's concierge to book the restaurants for you - they would be more than happy to do so. That's what I did before. Many restaurants/bistros now have website that would allow you to reserve online - this should help.

Like what others say, there are so many things (From museums to architectures, museums, bistros, haute cuisines, shopping, operas or ballets, even just walk along the city itself is very nice) you can do in Paris - even one week may not be enough .

If your main purpose is only for food, I think it's fine as well. And yes, at least one 2 or 3-star michelin restaurants is a must (based on your post in US forums, it would be very nice to try the top places in Europe too). Like what the Michelin guide say - eating in this kind of restaurants is worth the trip/a detour)

Some good bistros that often discussed are Spring, Le Violin d’Ingres, Chez L’Ami Jean, Chez Michel, Le Cameleon. I tried Aux Lyonnais and Benoit, and don't really like both of them