Sweet and sour sauce

[infernooo]

Hi AzianBrewer!

Any chance of getting rough quantities of each of those ingredients? :-)

Thanks!

When my uncle owned his Chinese-faux Polynesian restaurant back in the 80's, he made his sweet & sour sauce in a huge batch...

Here's Uncle Russ's recipe...

Water

Vinegar

Sugar

Sliced & unpeeled Oranges

Sliced & unpeeled Lemon

Sliced & unpeeled Pineapple

Ketchup

Salt

Ginger (just few slices)

Celery Stalks (This one really got me but he mentioned something about mellowing/smoothing out with other ingredients).

Red coloring.

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[Dejah]

Are Cantonese the only group that makes sweet and sour sauce in bright red? 

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I wonder if the red was to make it appealing to the non-Chinese when the cuisine first appeared in Gum San? If something looks familiar - like ketsup, people are more likely to try new food? And, to compete for customers, the redder the better, and it got way out of hand? Thus, we have the Christmas sauce!

I can see where the Polynesian influence came into play with Azianbrewer's uncle's recipe: citrus, pineapple...

Now, inferno, to answer the question of ingredient proportions in a restaurant-size batch of anything is a challenge. We always made the same item in the same container or cooking pot, so, this much of this, so much of that, and just a little less of this!

[hzrt8w]

Are Cantonese the only group that makes sweet and sour sauce in bright red? 

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I wonder if the red was to make it appealing to the non-Chinese when the cuisine first appeared in Gum San? If something looks familiar - like ketsup, people are more likely to try new food?

←

But in Hong Kong you can find the sweet and sour dishes in bright red too (refer to the 2 pictures). Unless this is a backflow from those early American-Chinese immigrants who made their way back to Hong Kong. But I kind of doubt it. After all I don't think you can ever find a "shrimp with lobster sauce" in Hong Kong restaurants.

Edited February 10, 2007 by hzrt8w (log)

[Dejah]

Are Cantonese the only group that makes sweet and sour sauce in bright red? 

←

I wonder if the red was to make it appealing to the non-Chinese when the cuisine first appeared in Gum San? If something looks familiar - like ketsup, people are more likely to try new food?

←

But in Hong Kong you can find the sweet and sour dishes in bright red too (refer to the 2 pictures). Unless this is a backflow from those early American-Chinese immigrants who made their way back to Hong Kong. But I kind of doubt it. After all I don't think you can ever find a "shrimp with lobster sauce" in Hong Kong restaurants.

←

Ah, but the "red pleasing colour factor" may have been at play in HK as well. Remember, it was a British colony, and I remember seeing and being warned about all "those sailors" (British AND American) swarming the streets for their R'n'R looking for excitment and "culture"...

OR, as my hubby just pointed out, the Chinese LIKE RED.

[hzrt8w]

OR, as my hubby just pointed out, the Chinese LIKE RED.

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That is true. Especially during Chinese New Year, everything you see is red. Red envelope, firecrackers, lanterns, cloths... everything.

Maybe other colors for sweet and sour sauce just don't look right?

Yellow?

Orange?

Green?

Pink?

Purple?

Black?

Blue?

[AzianBrewer]

Hi AzianBrewer!

Any chance of getting rough quantities of each of those ingredients? :-)

Thanks!

When my uncle owned his Chinese-faux Polynesian restaurant back in the 80's, he made his sweet & sour sauce in a huge batch...

Here's Uncle Russ's recipe...

Water

Vinegar

Sugar

Sliced & unpeeled Oranges

Sliced & unpeeled Lemon

Sliced & unpeeled Pineapple

Ketchup

Salt

Ginger (just few slices)

Celery Stalks (This one really got me but he mentioned something about mellowing/smoothing out with other ingredients).

Red coloring.

←

←

The batch of sauce was made in a huge volume....If you are going to try this recipe I would say:

3 cups of water

1/2 cups of white vinegar

1 1/2 cups of sugar

2 oranges

1 lemon

1/2 pineapple

1/2 cup of ketchup

tsp of salt

1 stalk of celery

combine ingredients and once the concoction start boiling, simmer for 20 mins.

[Gastro888]

I talked to my father this weekend when I was at home doing the whole CNY thing. So here's what he put in his S&S sauce:

-catsup (I remembered incorrectly!)

-sugar

-vinegar

-salt

-Worechester sauce (sp)

-cornstarch slurry to thicken

That's it. Let me think about how to break it down for the home cook. I have to work on the scale and the method. Unless you want to have enough to fill a 3 foot wide wok...

[infernooo]

Excellent - thanks Gastro! Look forward to hearing a scaled down version :-)

[Gastro888]

Try this:

In a large heavy bottomed pot over a medium - low flame add:

1 bottle Heniz catsup

1.5 cups of white sugar

Stir until sugar is dissolved. This should yield a a thick liquid. It should not be so thick that it's a paste but the mixture should be thick and slightly grainy. A spoon will stand in it for a second when you plop it in the middle. I know, I'm so friggin' technical...ha!

Add:

1/3 cup white vinegar

Stir. Add:

1 tsp of salt

Stir. Add:

1 tsp of Lea and Perrins Worcester sauce.

OK at this point make sure everything's well combined and the sugar's dissolved. Stir and stir until everything smooth. It should be nice and thick.

TASTE carefully (try not to burn yourself). If the ratios are wrong, which they might be (b/c remember I know how to make it for a restaurant by sight only and not by exact recipes), correct the seasonings with the proper ingredient. When everything's to your taste, bring the contents to a gentle boil then thicken the contents of the pot with a cornstarch slurry (1:.5 ratio of cornstarch to water). Stir for a few minutes to combine everything and let it gently boil for a few minutes more. Then when you're done, add some chilled & drained Dole pineapple chunks.

I hope this finds favor with you! Good luck!

ETA: My dad said the salt and the Lea and Perrins are key ingredients to this sauce. In order to have a balance of sweet and sour, you need the salt to round out the flavor and bring it out. The Lea and Perrins add a savory dimension to the mix, like a faint base note to the flavor. You can't have just sweet and sour, it would be too harsh on the palate.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Gastro888 (log)

[infernooo]

You and your dad are legends - thank you for that!

What size is the heinz catsup bottle in the US you are using? Here in Australia we have them in every conceivable size !

Thanks again :-)

Edited February 22, 2007 by infernooo (log)

[Gastro888]

I didn't know you were in Australia! We are using the industrial size cans but I am approximating wit the 16oz (1L?) size.

[infernooo]

Yep I'm in AU! Lots of Cantonese here so we are extremely fortunate that there is a big influence on our food... the boring, classic "Australian" (or should I say, "British hand-me-downs") food is largely being replaced by food brought in by immigrants (mainly Cantonese, Thai, India, Japanese).

Anyways, sorry for being such a pain in the ass asking all these questions, you have gone above and beyond to help me out - if I can help you out with anything, please don't hesitate to ask :-).

Thanks again!

[Gastro888]

Oh goodness. I don't know if the Heniz catsup is the same formula over there that it is over here. You know companies do change their formulas based on the demographics of the region they're shipping their products to. Oh boy, I hope this works.

You're welcome!

[infernooo]

One way to find out! :-)

Out of curiosity when I get home today, I will post the ingredients/nutritional information of a bottle of heinz ketchup, then perhaps someone on here from the US can do the same... it would be interesting to see if they are the same or not!

[sheetz]

I didn't know you were in Australia!  We are using the industrial size cans but I am approximating wit the 16oz (1L?) size.

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Actually 1 litre would be a little more than 32 fluid ounces.

Obviously the best way to approach this would be to make a very tiny quantity using the ingredients and just play around with it till it tastes right.

[infernooo]

16oz ~= 0.47 litres = 470ml ~= 2 cups sounds about right... about 1/2 a cup more ketchup than the amount of sugar in the recipe.

[Gastro888]

I blame the American schooling system for my mistake!

Yes, it's only a bit more catsup than sugar. I remember when he was making it in the wok that there would be a mountain of sugar floating in this small lake of catsup. It would take about 5 minutes of stirring to get the mountain to flatten out.

[infernooo]

OK folks, for those of you who may be interested as to the international differences of Heinz Ketchup, here is the ingredients and nutritional information for Heinz Australian ketchup:

Per 100ml:

Energy: 500kJ (125 calories)

Protein: 1.4g

Fat: 0.2g

Carbohydrate: 26.1g

Sugars: 24.8g

Sodium: 1270mg

Lycopene: 14.0mg

Contains 67% concentrated tomatoes

Ingredients: Concentrated tomatoes (contains 195g tomatoes per 100ml),

sugar, vinegar, salt, natural flavours, spice.

If someone would be kind enough to post the same information from a USA bottle, that would be great!

[Gastro888]

When I get home tonight, I'll post. Sounds about the same but remember, natural flavors here may be a different combo than over there. I just hope it all works out...

[infernooo]

Excellent - thanks!

I will be trying this out tomorrow night, can't wait!

[Gastro888]

Here we go:

Tomato concentrate made form red ripe tomatoes, distilled vinegar, high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, salt, spice, onion powder and natural flavoring.

No precentages are given. The ingredients are listed from greatest to least.

Good luck!