One good knife, recommendations?

[coquus]

Just wanted to clarify some things about japanese knives:

1. handle material-in my price range, composite wood seems the most popular choice, what is this? It's followed by pakka wood, stamina, magnolia (light color and mass), POM, etc., what are any of the benefits of these different types of handle?

2.Rockwell hardness-if I'm looking for a good all purpose chef's knife do I want to stay in any particular range 58-60 maybe or is it simply the more common sense approach that higher is better, and don't use the knife for certain tasks that may chip it?

[Octaveman]

I am now entranced with the prospect of buying something like one of the stainless sheathed blue carbon steel knives. One of my woodworking friends have marveled at the sharpness and durability of the steel.

I am considering either the 240 length of the UNSHEATHED Mizuno Hontanren Series Wa Gyuto (Blue Steel #2, HonKasumi finished) or the SS sheated Hiromoto AS Aogami Super (carbon steel) TJ20AS......

OMG, what to do? buy both??

←

I'm assuming you mean clad when you say sheathed. The term clad means the knife is clad or sandwiched with a softer metal to add strength to the blade. The outer layer is called the Jigane with the core being called the Hagane. The process of making these knives is called Warikomi.

The Mizuno Hontanren is an awesome knife. The wa-gyuto is an indredible piece of craftsmanship and is highly recommended by the few people I know own one. it's a very tough knife and can consequently be a bitch to sharpen. BTW, if you buy this or any other Japanese knife I'de suggest learning how to sharpen yourself or send it out to specialized sharpeners. I would NEVER trust this knife with the local knife shop.

I've owned the Hiromoto AS and it too is an awesome knife. You can't go wrong with either of these. There is a big price difference and one has an iron Jigane and the other has a SS Jigane. If you get the Mizuno, make sure you wash and dry after each use. Don't let it sit around to clean until after dinner. It deserves more respect than that. Same with the Hiromoto really but you have the advantage of it looking nice and shiny for a long time. Only the edge will form the patina.

If it were me and I had the budget, the Mizuno would be in my hands already. The Hiromoto is a worthy 2nd choice. It's completely up to you but regarding the size...I would suggest 270mm. If you use a pinch grip on your knives it removes about 30-40mm of usable edge at the heal because your fingers are there and nobody I know likes to cut stuff directly under their fingers. So if you get a 240mm, you end up with about 200-210mm of usable edge. With the 270mm you end up with 230-240 of usable edge. That extra inch really makes a difference IMHO.

Be sure to post pics of your new baby when you get it.

Cheers,

Bob

Edited April 16, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[Octaveman]

Just wanted to clarify some things about japanese knives:

1. handle material-in my price range, composite wood seems the most popular choice, what is this?  It's followed by pakka wood, stamina, magnolia (light color and mass), POM, etc., what are any of the benefits of these different types of handle?

Not 100% sure what composite wood is but it's probably just stablized wood of some kind that is impregnated with stablizing material and pressed at high pressure to make the block of wood. Pakka, stamina are both used in western style knives. Magnolia and Ho are used for traditional Japanese style handles. I think the most obvious benefit of the western style handle is that it's what is universally used around the world so the user has no issues with "feel". Traditional handles do feel different but you'll get used to it quickly. It also changes the balance point on longer knives (>270mm) since the wood is lighter and the tang on these knives is smaller (called Rat-tail tang). The benefit of traditional handles is that they can be easily replaced.

2.Rockwell hardness-if I'm looking for a good all purpose chef's knife do I want to stay in any particular range 58-60 maybe or is it simply the more common sense approach that higher is better, and don't use the knife for certain tasks that may chip it?

A range of 61-63 is a good range for Japanese knives with 60 being the lowest I would go. I say get the best quality gyuto you can with 61-63 hardness and keep it away from bones. Just that simple. Use it for daily veggie prep and meat slicing all you want. The knife will not need to be babied, just don't abuse it. No need to be afraid of them. It only takes using them one time to see how good of a knife they are. If they chip, so what. Sharpen it up and remove those chips. I have a 270mm Hattori KD that has a BIG chip in it (stupidity took over one night). I just left it alone. No need to remove all that metal just to take the chip out. Through regular sharpenings it will eventually go away.

[phatj]

Performance advantage, yes & no, durability advantage, no.  A single bevel allows the user to get more accurate and thinner cuts/slices than with a double beveled blade.  Plus it can get sharper and it's easier to keep sharp.  In a western kitchen there's not much advantage to having a single bevel unless you're making a lot of sushi or Japanese food.  The Usuba is used for veggie prep but for daily western style chopping and/or slicing the Nakiri (double beveled Usuba) would be a better choice.  Even then you could get away with just using a standard chef knife unless you're a knife nut and want that kind of specialization and accuracy.  So, yes and no depending on what your cooking style is and what you're making.

All my knives are Japanese but I only have two single beveled knives...a yanagiba and the deba I just bought above.  The yanagiba is used for sushi and I wanted to try out a deba for chicken.  Since single bevel knives are more fragile I had to find one that was softer than most so the edge could stand up to bones and joints.  Your typical deba hardened to 63-64 HRC (rockwell scale) would chip pretty easily on a chicken because they are made to handle fish and their softer/smaller bones.  The one I got is 60 HRC and so far has held up very well.  Because the edge is so thin and not as strong as a double bevel knife it becomes less durable.  The metals the Japanese use are very strong to begin with and can withstand a high amount of abuse but the thin edges that they can achieve make them fairly weak.  I have a gyuto from Shosui Takeda and the edge is extremely thin and gets screaming sharp but holds it's edge very very well.  I can go 4 months on a fresh sharpening before I notice it getting dull.  Not all are created equal though so it depends on who the maker is and the steel used.  Of course the user can make any knife stronger by making the bevel more obtuse themselves.

Does the side of the bevel matter?  That's a good question and one I'm not so sure I can answer completely or even correctly.  That's because intuitively as a right-hander (RH) I would think that having the bevel on the left as I hold the knife out in front of me would be ideal because the bevel would make the slices of fish fall away from the block or filet.  In reality though the bevel for a RH is on the right side and the slices of fish fall from the flat side of the knife.  Since I've never used a LH single bevel knife I cannot make a direct comparison but the Japanese have made the knives the way they are out of hundreds if not thousands of years of developing/perfecting the design so who am I to argue with their logic.  It's just the way it is and the user must just accept the correct way of doing things.  Of course, if you're a RH and you want to get a LH knife, plan on spending 50-100% more for it.

Many people I know use a yanagiba as a slicer for meats such as roasts or turkey for example and they say it works great.  This knife (or any other single beveled knife) will have a tendancy to rotate slightly to the right for a RH making for uneven slices.  So it will take some practice to control this natural rotation.

Hope this answers your questions a bit,

Bob

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Thanks, Bob, for the detailed response. I'm actually lefty and wondered if having a left-beveled blade would be worth the extra expense.

This is really idle curiosity, though. I'm looking to make the plunge on my first Japanese knife soon, but it will almost certainly be a Gyuto.

So, let me pick your brain on that: I know that the blades are light relative to western chef's knives of equivalent length, but I'm thinking that the longer ones would be pretty unwieldy. It seems like everyone recommends at least the 240 mm, but by my calculations that's almost 1.5 inches longer than my 8-inch Henckels chef's knife, which is already plenty long enough for most tasks. Why would I want a longer blade for what is pretty much an all-purpose knife?

[Octaveman]

Phatj, think of the knives this way...

Euro = Ford Aerostar van

Japanese = Ferrari

A 210mm or a 240mm are both light and very manueverable. Because of this they are the opposite of unwieldy. I prefer 270 for pretty much everything I do...even mincing garlic and shallots. Sure, a 210 would give me more control on the smaller stuff but I hate to change knives in mid stream so I've learned to choke up on the blade when I need to. Then I still have the extra length when I need it for the bigger stuff. If you don't think you need to go that big then that's completely up to you. If you use a pinch grip, I would HIGHLY recommend the 240 over the 210 as the grip itself would remove 30-40mm of usable edge. Nobody I know likes to cut stuff up right under their fingers. Just keep that in mind. The difference in weight of a 210 to a 240 is very minor and most likely difficult to feel in actual usage since both knives are light to begin with. Unless you have a space issue, I'd stick with the 240. Better to have it and not need it than the reverse. What's an inch or so anyway? Seriously, draw an inch on a piece of paper. Not much of a difference but your fingers on the back of the blade will take up that space.

[phatj]

Phatj, think of the knives this way...

Euro = Ford Aerostar van

Japanese = Ferrari

A 210mm or a 240mm are both light and very manueverable.  Because of this they are the opposite of unwieldy.  I prefer 270 for pretty much everything I do...even mincing garlic and shallots.  Sure, a 210 would give me more control on the smaller stuff but I hate to change knives in mid stream so I've learned to choke up on the blade when I need to.  Then I still have the extra length when I need it for the bigger stuff.  If you don't think you need to go that big then that's completely up to you.  If you use a pinch grip, I would HIGHLY recommend the 240 over the 210 as the grip itself would remove 30-40mm of usable edge.  Nobody I know likes to cut stuff up right under their fingers.  Just keep that in mind.  The difference in weight of a 210 to a 240 is very minor and most likely difficult to feel in actual usage since both knives are light to begin with.  Unless you have a space issue, I'd stick with the 240.  Better to have it and not need it than the reverse.  What's an inch or so anyway?  Seriously, draw an inch on a piece of paper.  Not much of a difference but your fingers on the back of the blade will take up that space.

←

Thanks again. I'll probably go with the 240, for the little extra flexibility the additional length gives. I'm just thinking that if I already find an 8-inch blade adequate for nearly everything, a 240mm should be plenty long enough, and the 270 would be overkill.

Maybe someday i'll decide that the 270 would be worth it after all. Then I'd just have to buy a pretty new knife.

One more question: I find the appearance of the Damascus steel knives to be pretty compelling, but they're a bit pricier than, say, the Tojiro DP. Is there a performance advantage that would be noticeable to a Japanese knife newbie like me, or would I just be paying for looks?

-Jay

[Octaveman]

One more question: I find the appearance of the Damascus steel knives to be pretty compelling, but they're a bit pricier than, say, the Tojiro DP. Is there a performance advantage that would be noticeable to a Japanese knife newbie like me, or would I just be paying for looks?

-Jay

←

You're paying for looks on a damacus knife. It serves no actual function other than beauty. There are the damascus knives like the Hattori HD or Ryusen Damascus where it's pretty much just clad in a pre-made damascus steel and then there are the damascus blades like the Hattori KD, Shigafusa and Carter to name a few where the damascus is hand made and adds that something special to your knife other than looks. The latter names are more functional works of art than just a knife to cut a potato with.

If you tell me what your budget is I can recommend a few knives for you beyond the DP as there are plenty out there to choose from.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[phatj]

I'm thinking it should be under $100. Even at that, it would be the single most expensive item in my kitchen that doesn't have a power cord.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. It get the impression it takes a lot for you to get tired of talking about knives.

[Octaveman]

I'm thinking it should be under $100. Even at that, it would be the single most expensive item in my kitchen that doesn't have a power cord.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. It get the impression it takes a lot for you to get tired of talking about knives.

←

No problem at all. It does take a lot but it does help if a little research was done already by the questioner. The gyuto SHOULD be the most expensive non-electrical item in your kitchen since other than the stove, it gets used the most. For a budget of <$100 you can consider a few options. All prices are for 240mm unless noted otherwise.

Kanetsugu Pro-M: Very good fit and finish, stainless, nicely rounded handles for comfort, good steel, very sharper than most out of the box. $85

Tojiro DP: Best bang for the buck in a stainless knife. Handles are more squared off which might present a comfort issue but can be solved with some sand paper. Fit and finish is hit and miss. You could get a perfect handle but you could also get one that has very minor flaws. These "flaws" may not even be noticable to you but just keep in mind this is an inexpensive knife that is made inexpensively but performs very well. You don't cut your food with your handle anyway. $60

Hiromoto HC: Carbon steel knife that is the best bang for the buck in a carbon knife. Good fit and finish, rounded handle for comfort, carbon steel performance (meaning it sharpens up great and stays sharper longer than stainless knives) I have this knife and think very highly of it. $50

Hiromoto AS: This one is beyond your budget but if you could possibly come up with the extra $30, it would be well worth it. This has a super blue carbon steel core and is clad or surrounded by stainless steel. I've had this knife...awesome. The AS is not the same as the G3. I have no experience with the G3 nor have I heard anyone who has. I can guarantee the AS is superior to any other knife listed in this post. $131

MAC Mighty: No personal experience but have heard good things about it. $115

Kiyotsuna: No personal experience with this but have heard it's a very good knife. $98

Kikuichi Elite: I've had this knife and it is a great carbon steel knife. Light and very well made. Kikuichi has a 700 year history of sword making and were the official supplier of swords to the Imperial Army. Thus bears the Emperor's emblem...the chrysanthemum. $90

This should keep you busy for a while.

Cheers,

Bob

Edited April 17, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[Jon Savage]

This should keep you busy for a while. 

Cheers,

Bob

←

Awesome info Bob, thanks for sharing. I'm sure happy with the Tojiro DP you'd mentioned further upthread.

Confused about the single bevel.

In reality though the bevel for a RH is on the right side and the slices of fish fall from the flat side of the knife.

I checked my yanagiba and it is indeed RH (bevel on the right side of the blade as you noted) but unless I cut towards myself the fish slices will fall from the beveled side of the knife. Likely my technique is backwards but cutting towards me rather than away would take some getting used to.

I'll need to pay attention next time I go to sushi and see how the sushi chef does his cuts. Seems like I might be using the knife backwards.

Assbackwards technique or not the yanagiba is my knife of choice for duck prosciutto - slices thin enough to read through.

Edited April 17, 2007 by 6ppc (log)

[Octaveman]

Jon, which side you cut depends on what you're working with. If a block of fish and you're making straight cuts like for sashimi, then the right side of the block is cut. If making longer/angled slices for nagiri then you make angled cuts from the left side of the block and tilt the knife to make wider pieces. When slicing from a filet you have the larger end to your right and you start making angled cuts starting from the smaller end working back. At least this is what I remember. Maybe someone here with real world experience will read this and correct me. You definately pull the knife toward you when you make a slice...starting at the heal and finishing at the tip or sooner depending on the length and sharpness of your knife. Basically the piece that's being cut is held in place with the left hand as you slice with the right.

edited to resemble English.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Octaveman (log)

[phatj]

I noticed the handles on the Tojiro. They look like they're a little less square than the ones on my Henckels knives (which I actually find pretty uncomfortable), and I'm thinking that if they were too round, I would loose the sense of orientation in your hand, if that makes any sense.

Thoughts?

[Octaveman]

Less square? I think they are very square. In less rounded handles, the shape is the same but the corners are eased/smoother and way more comfortable to hold. The rounded handles are just as secure in my hand. The Tojiro DP pic below from JCK.com is really squared off to me. The top of the handle is a 90* angle and could use some smoothing out if it was me. If your used to sharper corners on the handles of your knives then the DP will be fine. Many people I know feel they are too sharp and uncomfortable and sand it down to be smoother.

[phatj]

The knife arrived today - since I'm going to cube 5 pounds of pork butt to make sausage in a short while that will be a good test.

--edit I'm sold. Diced 5 lbs semi frozen pork butt in less than 10 minutes. Yikes that thing is sharp. Be afraid, Very afraid.

←

As you may have read, I'm considering the same knife. What do you think of the squared-off handle?

Less square?  I think they are very square.  In less rounded handles, the shape is the same but the corners are eased/smoother and way more comfortable to hold.  The rounded handles are just as secure in my hand.  The Tojiro DP pic below from JCK.com is really squared off to me.  The top of the handle is a 90* angle and could use some smoothing out if it was me.  If your used to sharper corners on the handles of your knives then the DP will be fine.  Many people I know feel they are too sharp and uncomfortable and sand it down to be smoother. 

←

After further review, I'd say it looks about the same as my Henckels, if not more squared. Of course, if this knife is as sharp as I'm hearing, it sounds like I might be able to use a lighter grip than I do with my current knife, so the handle shape becomes less important. I take it sanding this down is no big deal should I find it uncomfortable? How should I refinish the wood if I sanded it?

I'm really leaning towards this knife. Convincing my wife that I need a $60 knife would be vastly easier than convincing her I need a $100 knife. Plus, I like the way it looks.

[Jon Savage]

The knife arrived today - since I'm going to cube 5 pounds of pork butt to make sausage in a short while that will be a good test.

--edit I'm sold. Diced 5 lbs semi frozen pork butt in less than 10 minutes. Yikes that thing is sharp. Be afraid, Very afraid.

←

As you may have read, I'm considering the same knife. What do you think of the squared-off handle?

To be honest I did not notice the handle at all (which is a good thing). If you do choose to radius the edges if the handle just sand it progressively finer until it is as smooth as you like. re finishing should not be required since the whole handle is resin impregnated IIRC

[Octaveman]

Convincing my wife that I need a $60 knife would be vastly easier than convincing her I need a $100 knife.

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

[Scargo]

One of my fascinations about this discussion, regarding the Japanese knives and metals, is because I am an ex-model maker. Besides cooking, I like neat tools.

I regularly grind on, sand and shape my knife blades, bolsters and their handles and various kitchen tools to my liking and comfort. I have restored old knife handles and restored and refinished other antique cooking tools.

I believe, as stated, that most handle materials are impregnated or they are man-made plastic composite materials and will not absorb water and are solid material all the way through; I.E., they are not coated nor have some funky substrate. Neither is any good knife handle hollow, to my knowledge....

A neat trick to making any wood handle more durable and more impervious to water is to coat them with water-thin super glue; technically speaking, "0-5 centipoise cyanoacrylate". Some "CA" will soak into the wood and you will have acrylic impregnated wood! Then sand down the runs to smooth it up. This process is tricky because the glue wants to run everywhere and also because within a second or two, it will glue your skin together. Water-thin CA likes soaking into anything and sets extremely fast! You can get 1, 2 and 4 ounce bottles at hobby stores. It is also fantastic for tightening loose joints on furniture (because it will wick into the joint)!

[tim]

Bob,

Do yo have opinions about the mass produced knives, both Japanese and German. What would be a good knife among these brands.

For the accomplished cook?

For Mom - you know, cutting the carrots against her thumb?

For the beginning but enthusiastic cook?

Thank you for your expertize.

Tim

[coquus]

Those Calphalon Katana's seem pretty reasonable when purchased by the set, individually they are way overpriced. I haven't used them or seen them locally, but they are aesthetically pleasing, and seem to be fairly practical as well. I would be interested to see how they perform against a Henckel's.

Pretty much any individual Japanese knife below $500 seem to be mass produced, and how many knives does Mom need anyway. The Kershaws with the colored plactic handles seem to be the best gift in the she needs something now, but I won't be using it category. I think a little six inch Kyocera would be a great tool for Moms, it certainly requires a lot less maintainence or special handling.

[Octaveman]

Do yo have opinions about the mass produced knives, both Japanese and German.  What would be a good knife among these brands.

Ahem, well, my opnion of German knives are not that favorable. Not because they're garbage but because they are made to a different standard than Japanese knives. Basically, using the usual steels that have been used forever and making them to a lower hardness (HRC) levels. Because they're softer they need to be thicker and consequently heavier. They can be made very well but you'd still be working with inferior materials compared to Japanese knives. Even the mass produced Japanese knives starting at around $40 for a chef knfe are just plain better performers than pretty much any German knife. They use really good materials but their fit and finish is not always up to par with German knives. That's because the Japanese value function over form at this level. The higher you go in price the better craftsmanship you'll find. I'm not saying those $40 knives are crap, the handles are just not quite there quality wise. You may never notice anything out of the ordinary but if you're typically an anal person, then you will see things if you look hard enough.

I'm not sure how to answer your second question.

For the accomplished cook?  For the beginning but enthusiastic cook?

Anyone can use any Japanese knife and enjoy them. I'm a home cook (somewhat accomplished and very enthusiastic) and I have 5 gyuto's that cost, $48, $165, $185, $675 and $1,175. I know many cooks in restuarants use many different brands and styles...high tech powdered steel, carbon steel and/or combination steeled knives, traditional or western styled handled gyuto's, sizes from 210-270mm, Sujihiki's (slicer), parers, Honesuki's (boning), Deba's, gyuto's...it's all used. If you're looking for a chef knife or Gyuto, then which one you get is entirely up to you. I can recommend the vast array of brands I believe are great knives and all for different reasons and you choose the one you want based on what's important to you. You can't go wrong with any of the brands I recommend. Some of the brands I recommend come from what other people have said about them. If the reviewer of those knives knows what he's talking about I trust that opinion so I will pass it along. Most of the knives though I've personally tried over the years and I let you know which ones I've used and ones I haven't.

Your budget will be the biggest factor in what you choose but if it's high enough you can have the pick of the litter and maybe get a few knives instead of just one. A few days ago I listed a few good brands to pick from based on a budget of about $100. If you're budget is higher, let me know and I'll recommend more in the $100 to $200 range. The knives under $100 are still quite good and do their job very well. You're just limited to styles in that price range. Knives over $100 will open up more options for you that you will not find in the lower priced knives.

For Mom - you know, cutting the carrots against her thumb?

There is no Japanese knife I would recommend because it would slice her thumb off. I'd suggest buying her admission to a knife skills class and have her learn how to properly use them. Only after months of using what she learned would you even think about buying her a Japanese knife. There is a thread around here that asks this very question and gives plenty of options regarding knifes to get Mom but I wouldn't get her a Japanese knife until she starts to use the cutting board.

Hope this answers your question. I haven't had any coffee yet and the mind is slow this morning so excuse the rambling and spelling errors please.

Cheers,

Bob

p.s. Forgot to add that the only German brand I'd recommend is the Messermeister Meridian Elite. I've never used it but I've heard great things about it from known/respected users. The lack of bolster at the heel allows for sharpening the entire edge.

[Octaveman]

Scargo, welcome to the discussion. I would like to see some of your rehandle jobs if you'd like to post some. A few members of a knife forum I frequent also make their own handles and they do an awesome job so I always like to see other people's work. Working with wood has always been something I wished I had the talent for. I'll just have to be satisfied with playing the trumpet as my only creative outlet as wood working has never been good to me.

[moggi1964]

........

I am considering either the 240 length of the UNSHEATHED Mizuno Hontanren Series Wa Gyuto (Blue Steel #2, HonKasumi finished) or the SS sheated Hiromoto AS Aogami Super (carbon steel) TJ20AS......

OMG, what to do? buy both??

←

Scargo,

I recently got the Mizuno Hontaren Wa Gyuto (240mm) and it is stunning.

I actually had mine rehandled by someone Octaveman knows (Fish n Poi) not because the original handle isn't any good but because this was an expensive purchase for me so I figured this would be the knife I 'splashed out' on.

The handle was angled up slightly as the blade is not wide compared to some and Fish thought it best to add a little angle incase it gets used by someone with large hands (mine aren't but I have a couple of chef friends who have thick fingers).

The steel is gorgeous; the finish superb and the geometry perfect. I haven't had to take it to the stones yet though I sense it will actually hold a stunning edge and one that is much sharper than the out of the box one it came with.

I hope this helps in your decison making but remember that the blade is only 44mm wide which may be important to you.

Let us know what you choose.

Here is a link to where I posted a couple of pictures:

Knife pictures a couple of posts down

Oh and "Hi Bob" (Octaveman).

Edited April 24, 2007 by moggi1964 (log)

[Octaveman]

HA! hey moggi

[sjesu]

Anybody buy a new knife lately?  I did and am quite the excited one.  I got rid of my Honesuki and am going to try out a traditional deba for boning chickens.  I bought THIS one...Korin Ginsanko (stainless) 165mm deba.  Some pics are shown below.  The hardness level on it is lower than most traditional deba's so I'm thinking it will work quite well.  Gonna use it on a 6-lb bird tonight.  If it chips, I'll just repair them and put a more obtuse bevel on it to help support the edge more.  I used it to break down a couple of large yellowtail filets this weekend and that was quite enjoyable.

I'd been in the market for a new paring knife, and ended up getting the Tojiro DP Petty 120mm, partially due to the love of Tojiro knives I've found here. I'm expecting it to arrive within the next few days, so I'm quite excited. My next purchase will probably be a new boning knife. Bob, I was hoping that you would be willing to compare and contrast the deba, honesuki, and garasuki style knives. For instance, there are examples of all three in these Tojiros.

[Octaveman]

Bob, I was hoping that you would be willing to compare and contrast the deba, honesuki, and garasuki style knives.  For instance, there are examples of all three in these Tojiros.

←

I’d be glad to although I’ve never used a Garasuki.

The Honesuki: a small (150mm), tough, stiff, thick, heavy knife that does a great job of boning chickens. I’ve primarily used a Honesuki for my boning needs until just recently. It did a wonderful job and I wouldn’t hesitate recommending it. The tip is really good for getting around small bones and tendon’s. Since it’s stiff it will not yield to pressure like a western boning knife. This knife has plenty of knuckle clearance too that I felt was a big plus over western boning knives. It can go through joints and smaller bones (ribs) with ease. On the negative side, I’ve always felt the Honesuki was a tad too short.

The Garasuki: I only know one person that has one and he say it’s definitely different from it’s baby brother, the Honesuki. Heavier, thicker, longer (180-190mm) and taller (spine to edge). He also feels that it will do the job at hand very nicely saying it has a great feel in the hand. It’s essentially just a larger Honesuki. Don’t let the pics on JCK.com fool you…it is considerably larger. A few things found on the internet that were mentioned on another forum…

Note #1

Honesuki: for boning poultry

Garasuki: for chopping poultry

Note #2

The Garasuki knife is a traditional Japanese knife and has no Western counterpart. It originated in specialized chicken restaurants, and is traditionally used for breaking a chicken down into pieces. Due to its thickness and weight, it can also be used for other jobs that require heavy work with a short knife.

The Deba: I have a 240mm western Deba and while it does a great job of breaking down a chicken, it is not all that easy to use to bone chickens because it’s so wieldy. I know someone who uses a 165mm western Deba to bone chickens and he says it’s a great knife for that purpose. Since I already feel the honesuki is too small for me I wanted to try something bigger. I took a chance on a traditional 165mm Deba because the smaller western Deba that a friend has is not available and won’t be for a long time. Tojiro actually has two deba’s around the 165mm size…the western style #F-813 and the traditional single-bevel style F-601. The F-601 though is quite light for a Deba weighing less than the Honesuki. I would rule it out based on that alone as you want some heft to the knife.

So, you got a short, sturdy, made for boning chickens knife. You have a larger heavier duty knife with the same shape as the smaller one. You got a heavy-duty knife that has a different profile but could be easily used for chickens too. What we have is three knives that will do the same job but are considerably different.

This is going to come down to personal preference. If you’ve never used a Honesuki before it’s going to be hard for you to determine if you want a bigger/heavier knife or not. I’ve used a Honesuki for a few years for chickens and just got the Deba shown above. While I enjoy using it, it is heavier than I’m used to so time will tell. I am in the minority with my Deba for boning chickens so I would say go with the Honesuki first if you’re looking for a boning knife. It's my guess you'll love using it.

Hope this helped.

Bob