A Little Respect for Black Chefs

[Mikeb19]

yeah. I AM one of them. Me a Black cook, yup, me. Culinary school, line cooking, editorial food...me. I know how I feel and my experiances, and guess what? they are totally valid and 100% the subject at hand. I am what we are discussing, so pehaps I should go give myself a pep talk after I get ignored for a promotion, or totally underpaid. It SUCKS to watch people with the exact same credentials or less move foreward or right past you. After a little while you stop making excuses for your loving bosses and try to examine what's really going on.

hmm...maybe it's because I'm a woman?

←

It happens. In the world in general, sometimes just working hard isn't enough. I had one job, where I was cooking where the sous-chef was supposed to, I was supervising the night shift, heck I was the guy cooking for all the cameras and food critics (the restaurant in question was highly rated, many awards). I was logging more hours than the sous, and I was the one going to the farmers' market with the executive chef to pick out produce. I was also doing the most technical pastries and specials every night (I also had to train our pastry 'chef', who couldn't even make decent ganache). But guess what? I was barely making more than the dishwasher, and was payed lower than all of the people I trained and supervised... Why? Because I was just a kid living in the housing projects, who couldn't afford to get my papers - and despite the chef's best attempts, the owner refused to pay me what I was worth.

My god this is so well put it makes my head spin. I identify strongly with this statement. I grew up privileged and bi-racial. I have never had any discofort or insecurity due to my socioeconimic standing- there was never any need. My mothers side of the family is not as well off (though, totally just fine, upper middle class) and African- American. All of my cousins are going into law or business, secure, well respected arts. I think they aspire to be even bigger than the kitchen, not to prove a point necessarily, but because why not be the best you can be? In Richmond, Va (where they're from) There a few haute cuise restaurants, so the glamorous picture of chefdom had not been painted for them. Besides, doctors and lawers are respected in society why not choose a professional route which garners instant respect and social security?

Like I said, I grew up with an imbued sence of security (thanks mom and dad) i'm an overprivileged brat, so, of course I feel as if the grime from the kitchen just washes right off me after my shift. I don't need to feel owned by my chef, thus I don't feel uncomfortable. Had I grown up under different circumstances, the constant grinding and milataristic repremands may have highlighted a more historic hegemony

Another thing is this; If you were somehow uncomfortable with you social standing would you take a job where you willingly enslave yourself to a (usually white man?)

"yes Chef" can easily sound and feel very close to saying "yes master" and Black people in America may not see the value of that realtionship by any means. There is no glamor in this kind of relationship in the Black community, it seems, except by those so privileged (or dissconected to their roots) that it can be over looked.

←

Now I'm confused. In one post you imply that you've been passed over for a promotion because you're black, and in another post you say you've never felt uncomfortable due to your privileged upbringing?

[Mayhaw Man]

For those of you in the NY area that are interested, I'm sure that you can find out more about this event. Also, I just sent my twin Scott Barton (it's not so far from true, though our skin color and hair differ greatly-I'm a pasty white guy and my hair has all fallen out) to get him to give me an update on this thing. The reason that I include most of the press release is not to promote the event, but to put the list of chefs below into context. One of the best meals that I have ever had in NY was at Scott's house on 125th St out on his little roof balcony thing among the vegetables and flowers. Anyway, it's a good list of "chefs of color" though, frankly, I prefer to just think of them as chefs.

(New York, NY, October 5, 2006) – EBONY Magazine is proud to present the Taste of EBONY, a culinary extravaganza featuring: the leading Black chefs from across the globe, New York’s finest Black restaurants, and other Black food industry experts from around the country. Star chef Marcus Samuelsson, owner of Aquavit Restaurant in Manhattan, will serve as chairperson and culinary advisor of the premier event taking place at an exclusive Manhattan location, Monday, October 23, 2006.

The Taste of EBONY celebrates the unheralded history of the contributions Blacks have made to the world of culinary arts. It further serves as a catalyst for people of color, particularly a younger generation, to view the many facets of the food industry as a viable path toward pursuing prodigious careers.

“EBONY is excited to partner with Anheuser-Busch in providing this much-needed showcase and to take the lead in introducing these tremendous talents within the food, wine and restaurant industries to the palates of our community,” said Linda Johnson Rice, President and CEO of Johnson Publishing Company.

“The Taste of EBONY is a beautiful celebration of food and wine presented by people of color,” says Chef Marcus Samuelsson. “EBONY’s efforts must be applauded for putting together an event that recognizes those who are established while giving a voice for the future to those who are emerging in the food industry.”

-- more --

Page 2/3

Taste of EBONY

Hosted by the award-winning anchor, Maurice DuBois, co-anchor of “CBS 2 News This Morning,” the evening will commence with a special tribute to Chef Leah Chase, the 83-year-old doyenne of Black chefs around the world whose 65-year-old landmark establishment, Dookey Chase Restaurant in New Orleans, suffered severe damage from Hurricane Katrina. A presentation will also be made to C-CAP [Careers through Culinary Arts Program], the noted organization that provides career opportunities in the foodservice industry for underserved youth through culinary arts education and employment.

The featured participants of the Taste of EBONY include:

Executive Chef Carl Lovett, Anheuser Busch, St. Louis, MO; Chef Marcus Samuelsson, Owner - Aquavit, NYC; Executive Pastry Chef Erika Davis, Beau Rivage Resort & Casino, Biloxi, MS; Executive Chef Keith Williams, BG Restaurant (Bergdorf Goodman), NYC; Wine Director Brian Duncan, BIN 36 Restaurant/bin 36 wine café, Chicago, IL; Executive Chef Jeffrey Henderson, Café Bellagio, Las Vegas, NV; Margo T. Lewis, Cake Designer, Cake Bliss, NYC; Chef Sterling Burpee, Chief Culinary Officer, Culinary Training Academy, Las Vegas, NV; Charlotte Lyons, Food Editor, EBONY Magazine, Chicago, IL; Karen Holmes Ward, Divas Uncorked, Milton, MA; Shawn D. Farnum, Owner, Farnum’s Finest; Peter Morales, President & CEO, 57 Main Street Imports; Joel Michel, Owner – 5 Ninth, NYC; Michelle Jean, Owner – Ginger Restaurant, NYC; Scott A. Barton, Executive Chef & Culinary Consultant, Gravy LLC; Chef Marvin Woods, Host “Home Plate,” – Turner South Television/Partner, Spice Restaurant, Atlanta; Executive Chef Francois Kwaku-Dongo, l’escale, Greenwich, CT; Executive Chef Arlene Weston, Owner – Maroon’s, NYC; Melba Wilson, Owner – Melba, NYC; Norma Jean Darden, Owner – Miss Mamie’s Spoonbread Too, NYC; Sheron Barnes, Co-Owner – MoBay NY/Baton Rouge, NYC; Executive Pastry Chef Alfred Stephens, Olives NY, NYC; Executive Chef Robert Gadsby, 676 Restaurant & Bar, Chicago, IL and Noé Restaurant & Bar, CA and TX; Chef Sylvia Woods, Owner – Sylvia’s, NYC; Executive Chef Christopher Faulkner, The River Room,NYC; Chef G. Garvin, Host, Turn Up The Heat with G. Garvin, TV One, Los Angeles; Mac & Lil McDonald, Owner – Vision Cellar [Winery], Windsor, CA; Wandie Ndala, Owner - Wandie’s Place, Johannesburg, South Africa.

The Taste of EBONY is sponsored by: Anheuser-Busch Inc., American Airlines, American Express, Marriott Hotels and Resorts, TV One, South African Airlines, and Hershey.

[MarketStEl]

FWIW, the best cooking I have ever experienced from the hands of a black chef is also amongst the very best I have ever experienced. That chef is Shola Olunloyo of Studio Kitchen in Philadelphia fame. He is a remarkably talented and charismatic individual.

←

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, but it's been mentioned already:

Shola, like Samuelsson, is an immigrant.

I think that increased immigration of sub-Saharan Africans to America is going to muddy the discussion of race in ways both welcome and unwelcome in the years to come. Unencumbered as they are by the cultural baggage African-Americans carry, they could wind up as sticks that the truly bigoted use to beat American blacks over the head with again, much as black immigrants from the Caribbean were in danger of becoming before In Living Color defused the subject with sharp humor.

Yet if they, as Samuelsson did with this article, claim kinship with their American brethren, then that danger is probably nonexistent.

[azlee]

FWIW, the best cooking I have ever experienced from the hands of a black chef is also amongst the very best I have ever experienced. That chef is Shola Olunloyo of Studio Kitchen in Philadelphia fame. He is a remarkably talented and charismatic individual.

←

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, but it's been mentioned already:

Shola, like Samuelsson, is an immigrant.

I think that increased immigration of sub-Saharan Africans to America is going to muddy the discussion of race in ways both welcome and unwelcome in the years to come. Unencumbered as they are by the cultural baggage African-Americans carry, they could wind up as sticks that the truly bigoted use to beat American blacks over the head with again, much as black immigrants from the Caribbean were in danger of becoming before In Living Color defused the subject with sharp humor.

Yet if they, as Samuelsson did with this article, claim kinship with their American brethren, then that danger is probably nonexistent.

←

Thanks for reiterating my earlier point about Samuelsson being an immigrant. I was starting to worry that important distinction might be lost. I think it would be very interesting indeed to compare his and Shola's experiences and perceptions to those of successful African American chefs.

[Luckylies]

yeah. I AM one of them. Me a Black cook, yup, me. Culinary school, line cooking, editorial food...me. I know how I feel and my experiances, and guess what? they are totally valid and 100% the subject at hand. I am what we are discussing, so pehaps I should go give myself a pep talk after I get ignored for a promotion, or totally underpaid. It SUCKS to watch people with the exact same credentials or less move foreward or right past you. After a little while you stop making excuses for your loving bosses and try to examine what's really going on.

hmm...maybe it's because I'm a woman?

←

It happens. In the world in general, sometimes just working hard isn't enough. I had one job, where I was cooking where the sous-chef was supposed to, I was supervising the night shift, heck I was the guy cooking for all the cameras and food critics (the restaurant in question was highly rated, many awards). I was logging more hours than the sous, and I was the one going to the farmers' market with the executive chef to pick out produce. I was also doing the most technical pastries and specials every night (I also had to train our pastry 'chef', who couldn't even make decent ganache). But guess what? I was barely making more than the dishwasher, and was payed lower than all of the people I trained and supervised... Why? Because I was just a kid living in the housing projects, who couldn't afford to get my papers - and despite the chef's best attempts, the owner refused to pay me what I was worth.

My god this is so well put it makes my head spin. I identify strongly with this statement. I grew up privileged and bi-racial. I have never had any discofort or insecurity due to my socioeconimic standing- there was never any need. My mothers side of the family is not as well off (though, totally just fine, upper middle class) and African- American. All of my cousins are going into law or business, secure, well respected arts. I think they aspire to be even bigger than the kitchen, not to prove a point necessarily, but because why not be the best you can be? In Richmond, Va (where they're from) There a few haute cuise restaurants, so the glamorous picture of chefdom had not been painted for them. Besides, doctors and lawers are respected in society why not choose a professional route which garners instant respect and social security?

Like I said, I grew up with an imbued sence of security (thanks mom and dad) i'm an overprivileged brat, so, of course I feel as if the grime from the kitchen just washes right off me after my shift. I don't need to feel owned by my chef, thus I don't feel uncomfortable. Had I grown up under different circumstances, the constant grinding and milataristic repremands may have highlighted a more historic hegemony

Another thing is this; If you were somehow uncomfortable with you social standing would you take a job where you willingly enslave yourself to a (usually white man?)

"yes Chef" can easily sound and feel very close to saying "yes master" and Black people in America may not see the value of that realtionship by any means. There is no glamor in this kind of relationship in the Black community, it seems, except by those so privileged (or dissconected to their roots) that it can be over looked.

←

Now I'm confused. In one post you imply that you've been passed over for a promotion because you're black, and in another post you say you've never felt uncomfortable due to your privileged upbringing?

←

My point was that I'm not in a state of emotional upheaval every day about my position in the world, I'm not constantly faced with an overwhelming feeling of racial discomfort.

That of course, does not mean that I have never examined my path and place in this world. As I stated before, I can mostly shake off any bad vibes or any bad taste in my mouth but, that certainly has not effected my memory at all. Also, I will never know if I was passed over becuase of my race, it could have been anything...thant's why this subject is so sensitive..so much of this is about vibes and feelings.

[Luckylies]

FWIW, the best cooking I have ever experienced from the hands of a black chef is also amongst the very best I have ever experienced. That chef is Shola Olunloyo of Studio Kitchen in Philadelphia fame. He is a remarkably talented and charismatic individual.

←

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, but it's been mentioned already:

Shola, like Samuelsson, is an immigrant.

I think that increased immigration of sub-Saharan Africans to America is going to muddy the discussion of race in ways both welcome and unwelcome in the years to come. Unencumbered as they are by the cultural baggage African-Americans carry, they could wind up as sticks that the truly bigoted use to beat American blacks over the head with again, much as black immigrants from the Caribbean were in danger of becoming before In Living Color defused the subject with sharp humor.

Yet if they, as Samuelsson did with this article, claim kinship with their American brethren, then that danger is probably nonexistent.

←

I don't understand this. Could you please explain, I might be a bit young for this reference.

[Timh]

yes, the kitchens are full of Hispanics, Blacks, whatever, if anyone strives to ascend the ladder they most assuredly would have the opportunity I felt. But most just wanted to come in and do their job and hope for a raise each year.

←

Yeah, whatever, all the same right...

So all Blacks, Hispanics, whatever just want to work and get more money, not fame, promotion, fortune, celebrity etc? What gives you this impression?

The professional kitchen is one place in my experience that one can acheive by virtue of hard work, skill, and dilligence.

←

Yeah, professional kitchens are the picture of fairness and equal oppertunity. No really, If in YOUR PERCEPTION Blacks and Hispanics, and whatever, just wanted to go in and get the job done for more money, why would hard work, skill and dilligence matter at all- if THEY didn't want to move foreward. Saying someone works hard, but seems more than happy to pass on a promotion (other than more money. say) seems a bit nearsighted, no?

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?

Why are hardworking people being passed up for promotions?

Rascism exists! Sometimes stepping up to the plate is just not enough- someones got to throw you a pitch.

←

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?Ok, so we should promote on quotas, to fill niches, how about you bank rolling this establishment? As a exec and head chef, I promote on the ability to perform and the willingness to accept the responsibilities. Again I say, not every cook wants this responsibility. Why is this so hard to believe? Its prevalent in every other industry. If I had a majority of blacks applying for positions in my kitchens, then I would have a majority of blacks working in them, or any other race. But in my house,

the cooking is technical, so there must be a base level of technical proficiency to step in at a cooking level. I promote from within, my dishwasher will soon move up to a cook position, but will he be head chef soon , no. Its a craft and take years to learn, will he have the patience to learn, who knows? Maybe you can give him a pep talk. Brazilians make up most of the kitchen crews in my area, some are motivated to ascend the ladder, and they do, others just want reliabilty and consistency with out the weight of resposibilty of leadership. They come in do their job great, and leave. Whats wrong with that?

A great idea; Go out and ask these folks their opinions, everyone seems to be speaking for them instead.

←

yeah. I AM one of them. Me a Black cook, yup, me. Culinary school, line cooking, editorial food...me. I know how I feel and my experiances, and guess what? they are totally valid and 100% the subject at hand. I am what we are discussing, so pehaps I should go give myself a pep talk after I get ignored for a promotion, or totally underpaid. It SUCKS to watch people with the exact same credentials or less move foreward or right past you. After a little while you stop making excuses for your loving bosses and try to examine what's really going on.

hmm...maybe it's because I'm a woman?

←

So now thats two crutches to carry you around. How about ability being the primary factor in promotion? Culinary school holds no weight. It s easy to find convenient excuses like race and gender when the sole issue that everyone looks to as the determining factor often is in fact skill and ability. All of the restaurant owners I know could care less about the make up of their staff, as long as they are qualified and skilled to do their job.

[NYC Mike]

yes, the kitchens are full of Hispanics, Blacks, whatever, if anyone strives to ascend the ladder they most assuredly would have the opportunity I felt. But most just wanted to come in and do their job and hope for a raise each year.

←

Yeah, whatever, all the same right...

So all Blacks, Hispanics, whatever just want to work and get more money, not fame, promotion, fortune, celebrity etc? What gives you this impression?

The professional kitchen is one place in my experience that one can acheive by virtue of hard work, skill, and dilligence.

←

Yeah, professional kitchens are the picture of fairness and equal oppertunity. No really, If in YOUR PERCEPTION Blacks and Hispanics, and whatever, just wanted to go in and get the job done for more money, why would hard work, skill and dilligence matter at all- if THEY didn't want to move foreward. Saying someone works hard, but seems more than happy to pass on a promotion (other than more money. say) seems a bit nearsighted, no?

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?

Why are hardworking people being passed up for promotions?

Rascism exists! Sometimes stepping up to the plate is just not enough- someones got to throw you a pitch.

←

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?Ok, so we should promote on quotas, to fill niches, how about you bank rolling this establishment? As a exec and head chef, I promote on the ability to perform and the willingness to accept the responsibilities. Again I say, not every cook wants this responsibility. Why is this so hard to believe? Its prevalent in every other industry. If I had a majority of blacks applying for positions in my kitchens, then I would have a majority of blacks working in them, or any other race. But in my house,

the cooking is technical, so there must be a base level of technical proficiency to step in at a cooking level. I promote from within, my dishwasher will soon move up to a cook position, but will he be head chef soon , no. Its a craft and take years to learn, will he have the patience to learn, who knows? Maybe you can give him a pep talk. Brazilians make up most of the kitchen crews in my area, some are motivated to ascend the ladder, and they do, others just want reliabilty and consistency with out the weight of resposibilty of leadership. They come in do their job great, and leave. Whats wrong with that?

A great idea; Go out and ask these folks their opinions, everyone seems to be speaking for them instead.

←

yeah. I AM one of them. Me a Black cook, yup, me. Culinary school, line cooking, editorial food...me. I know how I feel and my experiances, and guess what? they are totally valid and 100% the subject at hand. I am what we are discussing, so pehaps I should go give myself a pep talk after I get ignored for a promotion, or totally underpaid. It SUCKS to watch people with the exact same credentials or less move foreward or right past you. After a little while you stop making excuses for your loving bosses and try to examine what's really going on.

hmm...maybe it's because I'm a woman?

←

So now thats two crutches to carry you around. How about ability being the primary factor in promotion? Culinary school holds no weight. It s easy to find convenient excuses like race and gender when the sole issue that everyone looks to as the determining factor often is in fact skill and ability. All of the restaurant owners I know could care less about the make up of their staff, as long as they are qualified and skilled to do their job.

←

It is also easy to call these legitimate hurdles "excuses" as a way to dismiss the evils of institutionalized racism. If only we lived in a world where "ability" was all that mattered when it came to career advancement and the breaking of glass ceilings. Qualified and skilled in no way means fair and equitable pay either, again I would refer you to the Mexican back of the house butcher who is nothing short of a master with knife and carcass who is barely making enough to make ends meet after an 80-90 hr work week.

Perhaps "all" of the many restaurant owners you know are the wonderful exception to the rule. I for one see a very miniscule subset of hispanic and black (european or otherwise) cooks that hold senior or forward facing positions in the food media or in high end restaurants. McDs on the other hand seems to have no issues with minority hiring.

-mike

[Luckylies]

yes, the kitchens are full of Hispanics, Blacks, whatever, if anyone strives to ascend the ladder they most assuredly would have the opportunity I felt. But most just wanted to come in and do their job and hope for a raise each year.

←

Yeah, whatever, all the same right...

So all Blacks, Hispanics, whatever just want to work and get more money, not fame, promotion, fortune, celebrity etc? What gives you this impression?

The professional kitchen is one place in my experience that one can acheive by virtue of hard work, skill, and dilligence.

←

Yeah, professional kitchens are the picture of fairness and equal oppertunity. No really, If in YOUR PERCEPTION Blacks and Hispanics, and whatever, just wanted to go in and get the job done for more money, why would hard work, skill and dilligence matter at all- if THEY didn't want to move foreward. Saying someone works hard, but seems more than happy to pass on a promotion (other than more money. say) seems a bit nearsighted, no?

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?

Why are hardworking people being passed up for promotions?

Rascism exists! Sometimes stepping up to the plate is just not enough- someones got to throw you a pitch.

←

Uh, my experience in the industry. Where do you draw your conclusions from?Ok, so we should promote on quotas, to fill niches, how about you bank rolling this establishment? As a exec and head chef, I promote on the ability to perform and the willingness to accept the responsibilities. Again I say, not every cook wants this responsibility. Why is this so hard to believe? Its prevalent in every other industry. If I had a majority of blacks applying for positions in my kitchens, then I would have a majority of blacks working in them, or any other race. But in my house,

the cooking is technical, so there must be a base level of technical proficiency to step in at a cooking level. I promote from within, my dishwasher will soon move up to a cook position, but will he be head chef soon , no. Its a craft and take years to learn, will he have the patience to learn, who knows? Maybe you can give him a pep talk. Brazilians make up most of the kitchen crews in my area, some are motivated to ascend the ladder, and they do, others just want reliabilty and consistency with out the weight of resposibilty of leadership. They come in do their job great, and leave. Whats wrong with that?

A great idea; Go out and ask these folks their opinions, everyone seems to be speaking for them instead.

←

yeah. I AM one of them. Me a Black cook, yup, me. Culinary school, line cooking, editorial food...me. I know how I feel and my experiances, and guess what? they are totally valid and 100% the subject at hand. I am what we are discussing, so pehaps I should go give myself a pep talk after I get ignored for a promotion, or totally underpaid. It SUCKS to watch people with the exact same credentials or less move foreward or right past you. After a little while you stop making excuses for your loving bosses and try to examine what's really going on.

hmm...maybe it's because I'm a woman?

←

So now thats two crutches to carry you around. How about ability being the primary factor in promotion? Culinary school holds no weight. It s easy to find convenient excuses like race and gender when the sole issue that everyone looks to as the determining factor often is in fact skill and ability. All of the restaurant owners I know could care less about the make up of their staff, as long as they are qualified and skilled to do their job.

←

Two crutches? Race and Gender? Crutches HELP people. I've never really felt as if I've been the beneficiary of affirmitive action based on either of these traits so lets just ride with the assumption that you meant something else.

Anyway, I was being sarcastic. My point was that you can never really tell why you are being passed over for a promotion, it could be any number of reasons skill included...if I wsa unclear, my bad.

[Mikeb19]

It's been my experience that all that matters these days is $$$. If you have money, no matter what ethnicity you are you'll have a much easier time getting ahead than someone without money.

Money matters when you choose what culinary school to go to - the rich go to CIA, the poor either go to a community college or don't go at all. When you're an apprentice - if you have money, you can go to the best restaurants and work for free or minimum wage, if you don't have money, then you need to get paid for your work, and might not be able to get those top apprenticeships. If you have money - you can tour and do stages around Europe, eat at the best restaurants, learn using that approach. And finally, if you come from money, odds are good that you'll have someone to fund your future restaurant...

If you're poor, you'll likely have to take a job at a chain restaurant to pay your bills, work the line for years before getting into middle-management, and by the time you're middle-aged you might get a chef job in a casual dining restaurant. You need to be incredibly lucky and talented to be the exception...

Money > ethnicity....

[Timh]

Where does money factor into drive, skill and eventual ability? i have known loads of rich kids , went to the right schools, and faded in the kitchens. I also know loads of low income kids(I'm one of them) who worked hard , learned and achieved. The silver spoon will buy the position, but its the skill that holds it. Some of the kitchens I worked in, Carlo's, Brasserie Jo, in Chicago, (look in any kitchen in chi-town for that matter) and you'll see mostly hispanics,and more than a few women, and even more than a few of the same in leading roles, because they strove for it, not because of some altruistic namby pamby idealism. They earned it. Did any of the listed chefs of color (or women for that matter) achieve their position because some owner felt the need to right a "social injustice' and do a political feel good? No, they got there because they worked hard, learned their craft, and put themselves in the positon of promotion.

[Vadouvan]

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, but it's been mentioned already:

Shola, like Samuelsson, is an immigrant.

I think that increased immigration of sub-Saharan Africans to America is going to muddy the discussion of race in ways both welcome and unwelcome in the years to come. Unencumbered as they are by the cultural baggage African-Americans carry, they could wind up as sticks that the truly bigoted use to beat American blacks over the head with again, much as black immigrants from the Caribbean were in danger of becoming before In Living Color defused the subject with sharp humor.

Yet if they, as Samuelsson did with this article, claim kinship with their American brethren, then that danger is probably nonexistent.

Completely absurd.

my thoughts.

1

Immigrants move to the United states *specifically* seeking a better life, economic wellness or flight from opression. Shola considers himself a transplanted expatriate who has lived in several countries and frankly race hasnt been much of an impediment in his career thus far.

There is hypocrisy on both sides, first of all the Black american elite tends to be the least open minded of any social group if you arent a doctor or lawyer but it's ok to be a rapper or basket ball player with zero education. They place no value on highly trained people in the technical filed of cookery.

2

The James Beard House should feature more black chefs at times other than Black history month not to make a point but to level the playing field....in fact they should do the same with other groups, asians, hispanics, women. Look at Gourmet's recent lame list of 50 best restaurants, we all know there are chinese and japanese restaurants in America that blow away at least 20 of those places.

3

Everyone .........even black people are narrow minded when it comes to the context of the perception of food in Africa. I have lived there, there are several countries.........my point exactly....no one ........let alone a black chef should conceptually publish anything called an "African" cookbook thus compressing over 50 countries and 300 ethnic groups into 75 pages.

Marcus samuelsson may be a good chef, but is no authority on African food. We dont have "european" cookbooks.....and Asian cookbooks tend to include the horrible westerneized food you see at buddakans and china grills.

4.

At the end of the day, a lot of "well intentioned" americans just still cant seem to process that a black person can be in charge. Just continous condescension....at trade shows, professional organisations ect ect.

5.

If The food network has any interest in seeing black faces on air, there would be more of them on. What they will say as an exit strategy is that the people in middle america want to see "all american" faces like Rachel ray and tyler florence.

Unfortunately someone forgot to remind them that while "all american" used to mean white......alll of america is no longer white....and has it ever been ?

Edited October 19, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[MarketStEl]

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, but it's been mentioned already:

Shola, like Samuelsson, is an immigrant.

I think that increased immigration of sub-Saharan Africans to America is going to muddy the discussion of race in ways both welcome and unwelcome in the years to come. Unencumbered as they are by the cultural baggage African-Americans carry, they could wind up as sticks that the truly bigoted use to beat American blacks over the head with again, much as black immigrants from the Caribbean were in danger of becoming before In Living Color defused the subject with sharp humor.

Yet if they, as Samuelsson did with this article, claim kinship with their American brethren, then that danger is probably nonexistent.

Completely absurd.

my thoughts.

1

Immigrants move to the United states *specifically* seeking a better life, economic wellness or flight from opression.

And this gets to the heart of the problem--and the wellspring from which all the touchiness flows.

There are only two racial/ethnic groups in the United States to which this statement does not apply: Native Americans (Indians, so misnamed because that's where Columbus thought he had landed), who were here first, and the descendants of slaves who now call themselves "African American." This last group is unique among all American groups for having been brought here against its will.

When black Americans make claims to uniqueness in the Comparative Oppression Derby, they are based on this fact. I believe the Comparative Oppression Derby is a pointless race, but people run it all the same.

Shola considers himself a transplanted expatriate who has lived in several countries and frankly race hasnt been much of an impediment in his career thus far.

There is hypocrisy on both sides, first of all the Black american elite tends to be the least open minded of any social group if you arent a doctor or lawyer but it's ok to be a rapper or basket ball player with zero education. They place no value on highly trained people in the technical filed of cookery.

I could go on for days about how black intellectuals have done us as much harm as good with stultifying notions of what constitutes "authenticity"--the source of some of the things you observe--but that would take us way off topic.

However: I see enough blacks who have won fame and some celebrity in the food trade--but not in the rarefied reaches of fine cuisine--to suggest that the problem is not aversion to careers in food preparation per se (as someone else noted, you will find many blacks at all levels in institutional food service, such as the executive chef for Aramark's dining and catering operations at Widener) but rather that same disconnect from "upper class" attitudes, values and attributes that is reflected in your observation above.

Your comment on the James Beard House's programming is beyond dispute.

3

Everyone .........even black people are narrow minded when it comes to the context of the perception of food in Africa. I have lived there, there are several countries.........my point exactly....no one ........let alone a black chef should conceptually publish anything called an "African" cookbook thus compressing over 50 countries and 300 ethnic groups into 75 pages.

Marcus samuelsson may be a good chef, but is no authority on African food. We dont have "european" cookbooks.....and Asian cookbooks tend to include the horrible westerneized food you see at buddakans and china grills.

I think I referred to this same slighting of African diversity with my remark upthread about the overly vague nature of the term "African-American." But the problem, I'm afraid, is all but unsolvable in an American context, since the enslavers didn't bother with such trivialities as observing what would have been called "national" or "ethnic" differences in Europe and what Europeans called "tribal" differences among the "less civilized" peoples.

I'd like to suggest that Americans in general--African- or otherwise--are still at a very early stage in their education about Africa, and as we learn more, what is likely to happen will resemble how we handle Asian nationalities, conflating them at some levels and distinguishing among them at others.

4.

At the end of the day, a lot of "well intentioned" americans just still cant seem to process that a black person can be in charge. Just continous condescension....at trade shows, professional organisations ect ect.

5.

If The food network has any interest in seeing black faces on air, there would be more of them on. What they will say as an exit strategy is that the people in middle america want to see "all american" faces like Rachel ray and tyler florence.

Unfortunately someone forgot to remind them that while "all american" used to mean white......alll of america is no longer white....and has it ever been ?

←

Plus ca change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Vadouvan]

I'd like to suggest that Americans in general--African- or otherwise--are still at a very early stage in their education about Africa, and as we learn more, what is likely to happen will resemble how we handle Asian nationalities, conflating them at some levels and distinguishing among them at others.

Just laziness....

I think it's quite odd that folks in these undeveloped countries seem to have no problem figuring things out with little or no access to public libraries or the Internet.

But in any case.....not to get off topic, my point is that Samuelsson's cookbook is embarassing for anyone who claims to be "African".

The motivation without clarification is suspicious and can just be sublimated into a marketing ploy by some clever book agent. Look at all these celebrities adopting "African" babies.......do they even specify where the kid is from ?

Its just disgusting and the media isnt sophisticated enough to see through that.

[docsconz]

I'd like to suggest that Americans in general--African- or otherwise--are still at a very early stage in their education about Africa, and as we learn more, what is likely to happen will resemble how we handle Asian nationalities, conflating them at some levels and distinguishing among them at others.

Just laziness....

I think it's quite odd that folks in these undeveloped countries seem to have no problem figuring things out with little or no access to public libraries or the Internet.

But in any case.....not to get off topic, my point is that Samuelsson's cookbook is embarassing for anyone who claims to be "African".

The motivation without clarification is suspicious and can just be sublimated into a marketing ploy by some clever book agent. Look at all these celebrities adopting "African" babies.......do they even specify where the kid is from ?

Its just disgusting and the media isnt sophisticated enough to see through that.

←

I'm not quite as cynical regarding Samuelsson's book. This topic was the essence of his demo at the ICC last month. He freely spoke of the fact that their is no such thing as a Pan-African cuisine. Nevertheless he approaches cuisines from different parts of Africa and is trying to draw attention to these different cuisines. Certainly from a marketing point of view it is, at this time in the US, much more likely to generate significant interest with such a broad-based theme than say more ethnically or regionally based approaches. The bottom line, as I see it, is that these cuisines need as much exposure as they can get in the US. Samuelsson considers the African Continent as the source of the next big thing. As the 80's and 90's brought "Asian" cuisine(s) into the forefront of the American dining imagination, he feels, and I don't disagree, that the next decade or so will be when African cuisines become widely discovered and appreciated in the US. He cited the wealth of special ingredients of African origen to be one of the principle reasons why as well as the quality of the various cuisines themselves. Perhaps their are others more expert than he, but I applaud his effort to bring attention to an area that deserves it.

[Jaymes]

Look at all these celebrities adopting "African" babies.......do they even specify where the kid is from?  It's just disgusting and the media isnt sophisticated enough to see through that.

I'm not saying I disagree with your main point, but in this statement, you're simply incorrect. I don't follow celebrity news, much less the spate of celebrity adoptions, but even I know from which African countries they come, and that's only because of incessant media attention.

[Vadouvan]

Thats my point...that the media does not make that clarification........more and more, details dont matter.

Belive me I couldnt care less who decides to adopt whom from where or what celebrities do, its the media aspect.

nuff said..

[JohnL]

This whole thread is pretty much way off target. IMOP!

I just got back from a news stand where I actually bought a copy of Ebony and read the article. (by the way, a very interesting publication worth reading by all)

My guess is few (if any) who responded to Sandy's initial post did the same.

The title of the piece is "CELEBRATING BLACK CULINARIANS--a tribute to legendary chefs and a road map for prospective food preparers."

It is decidedly upbeat and interesting.

It is not an indictment of the food industry at any level rather Samuelson provides some perspective celebrating some black chefs and ruminating on the present state of affairs.

One, whom Samuelson turns to for perspective is Marvin Woods who provides the only real criticism in the piece. Mr Woods looks at the media as a culprit, singling out the Food Network. He points out that "the media do not give people of color play. we're out there..." He proceeds to name many prominent people of color in key positions in the food industry.

I would argue with his rather cavalier statement that "racism" is at play,. He is a chef, author and TV personality and I suspect his cry of "racism" is a bit too pat and potentially a result of some sour grapes.

But more importantly, to this thread, no one in the piece, including Mr Woods asserts that the food industry, at any level is "racist."

In fact, after reading the article, one comes away impressed with the lofty positions and accomplishments so many people of color have made to date.

Also important are Mr Samuelson's conclusions, among them: "as people of color our next challenge is to own diverse kinds of restaurants"

How?

Travel, gain exposure to different cultures and their food, education, formal training, learn other languages.

Mr Woods adds: "get a good foundation...and that means you're not going to get a lot of money right off. In this industry your skills are as important as book skills. If you can't afford culinary school, entrench yourself with a top chef. Put your time in, pay yur dues. No matter how high you go, you're a cook first, every day that's the skill, the craft you work on."

The piece ends with the importance of families on a young person, in gaining a love of food and cooking.

So unless everyone is reading this well written article completely differently than I, all this debate over cultural stereo types and criticism of one's credentials to write a cook book of African cuisine, is coming out of left field--everyone has an ax to grind.

By the way, Americans can't accept a black person in a leadership role?

Not only does the piece refute that notion for the food industry but I would add--Condi Rice, Ron Brown, DeVal Patrick and Colin Powell, Thurgood Marshall and myriad mayors--liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican and on and on.

My take?

I think that Samuelson makes a great case for the accomplishments of many many African Americans in the food industry.

Mr Woods has a point in that the main problem is we don't hear enough about these people in the media. I would argue his pat answer that this is due to "racism" on the part of the media--it is IMOP a lot more complex than that. To pat an answer/scapegoat and please, the Food Network? far, far too easy a target.

So there is room for an interesting discussion here. I don't believe it should center around something the article actually refutes (the food industry as racist).

There's the media issue raised by Mr Woods and mostly there are the wonderful anecdotes and thumbnails on some amazing people and their accomplishments.

I also do not think this is about Haute Cuisine which is, by its very nature, exclusive

(guess what, most white folks don't eat at Le Bernardin).

It isn't about money or class--the article makes it clear that there are many diverse paths into the industry.

It is, however a call for more black role models and for more African American young people to learn about food and the pioneers that have led the way.

Not much to argue with there--IMOP (of course).

Finally, I googled Cafe Nicholson and Edna Lewis sparked by the piece and learned that Johnny Nicholson (son of Rumanian and Greek immigrants) from St Louis came to New York to be a fashion designer, was spurned by most places because he didn't graduate Parson's School of Design, persevered and got a job--as a window dresser at Lord and Taylor failed at it--opened an antiques shop--was inspired by a trip to Rome and Cafe Greco there and came back and injtended to open a similar cafe. Edna Lewis came in to take a job as a domestic there and remarked that the place would make a nice restaurant--Mr Nicholson agreed and on the spot made her chef and half partner!

Only in America kids only....

(the whole story is in the New York Times March 1982 "An Innovator in Cafe decor and Food"--just google Cafe Nicholson New York History. sorry but I can't link it here.)

[wkl]

"By the way, Americans can't accept a black person in a leadership role?

Not only does the piece refute that notion for the food industry but I would add--Condi Rice, Ron Brown, DeVal Patrick and Colin Powell, Thurgood Marshall and myriad mayors--liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican and on and on."

just because they are there doesn't mean they are accepted.........

[docsconz]

John, your discussion is very cogent. I am not nor have I been saying that the food industry is racist. It is probably one of the most open industries in America as regards to race and opportunity. My point is basically in agreement with a lot of what you say. Why there may be discrepancies between any particular groups populational proportion and their proportions in the food industry at various levels is a very complex question. That being said, I am sure that even though it may not be an inherently institutional problem, racism still exists within the industry as it does throughout society. The overt aspects of it are much improved over what they were and are likely much less significant than they used to be unless one happens to be the individual affected by it. You have provided at least some evidence for that. While it still exists and is deplorable, I agree that I don't think that is the most significant issue here or the most interesting. As I think Sneakeater wrote and I paraphrase, it is relatively easy to see and condemn these overt instances of racism. I have been using the term "direct." What I find more interesting are the underlying reasons for the discrepancies, what I have been calling "indirect." These are not necessarily malicious and don't even necessarily need to be acted on, but if they can be understood, than perhaps their true significance can be determined and any necessary actions taken.

[Vadouvan]

Internet discussions dont do these nuanced conversations justice.....

I'm not quite as cynical regarding Samuelsson's book

For the record doc, I think Marcus S is a great chef, I love his restaurants and my intent wasnt to trash him but rather point to the fact that every few years, the publishing world decides "black is the new black" and promptly after that, nothing for 10 years.

"By the way, Americans can't accept a black person in a leadership role?

Not only does the piece refute that notion for the food industry but I would add--Condi Rice, Ron Brown, DeVal Patrick and Colin Powell, Thurgood Marshall and myriad mayors--liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican and on and on."

Bill of course Americans can accept people of leadership of color, my statement wasnt specific enough, for clarity, what I am saying is that a lot of people in the food industry and in some portion of society in general seem suprised when the encounter a black chef who actually isnt working at TGI fridays....and a lot of those peole are in the food business. the food world is a small microcosm of American society but we dont go around taking issue with everything people say. In fact I laugh most of the time, you would not believe what perfectly nice well meaning people say. I kid you not.....just last week I am cooking for a client in an apartment on the west side above JG's Perry street restaurant and a guest walks into the kitchen and tell's my assistant how fabulous the food is and asked where he trained..............my assistant is a supertalented young white kid who wants to go to CIA.............and then after he points to me she was like.....Ohhh....where are you from....I said Africa.......

But seriously this happens all the time.

That's what DOCSCONZ call's indirect racism...........but it isnt even racism, its just dumb people saying dumb Sh*t.

What do we do, we laugh and move on.

BUT it happens in restaurants, food distributors, bank deposits, virtually every facet of running a restaurant when I was in charge and you know what, it's annoying.

I know people are complaining that the thread has gone off track but you seriously cannot bring up a sore topic like this and not expect tangential experiences and perception and to diminish or minimize them is part of the very problem.

[Vadouvan]

AND to add, it isnt a black white issue, the problem with the perception in the food world is one of romance and not race, most people associate certain images with the word chef.

There are lots of people from France who arent nearly as creative or qualified as some young american chefs (black or white) but simply because you have an accent and your first name is Didier or Jean Michel.........YOU ARE HIRED.

[russ parsons]

regarding the argumente that an "african cookbook" is racist because it fails to differentiate among the various african cuisines: this follows a long history in publishing. cuisines are usually introduced in overviews (Chinese, French, Italian, American) and then if the market proves willing, later books will delve into regional differences (Tuscan, Sichuan, Provencal, Californian). it's just business. my guess is that a cookbook on malian cuisine, no matter how well done, would sell about 500 copies. Ethiopian might do somewhat better, because it seems to have more exposure ... or is that just in los angeles?

and please, don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't the aspiration to become an haute-cuisine chef be predicated in large part on having attended haute-cuisine restaurants? At least in Southern California, I'd be shocked if the percentage of diners at great restaurants came anywhere near 13%. I'd guess it's more like 5%. My impression is that this is somewhat better in Manhattan, what is it like in other parts of the country?

and since this is such a touchy topic, please let me say very plainly that i'm certainly not accusing those restaurants of being racist--they'll take anyone with a phone to make reservations and a credit card to pay the bill. it just goes back to my original argument that everyone might not hold the culinary profession in the same glamorous light that we do.

[russ parsons]

what I am saying is that a lot of people in the food industry and in some portion of society in general seem suprised when the encounter a black chef who actually isnt working at TGI fridays

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sorry, i'm sure these must be bad experiences for you. but doesn't it make sense that if there aren't very many black chefs in fine dining (as has been extensively argued here), that it would be a surprise to someone encountering one?

edited afterthought:

(actually, not to put this on the same plane, but i always used to get the same reaction as a man writing about food. in fact, i still have people coming up and whispering "who REALLY does the cooking in your house?")

Edited October 19, 2006 by russ parsons (log)

[Vadouvan]

sorry, i'm sure these must be bad experiences for you. but doesn't it make sense that if there aren't very many black chefs in fine dining (as has been extensively argued here), that it would be a surprise to someone encountering one?

They arent bad experiences for me, bad experiences are IRS audits and Identity theft.

I consider that people behaving badly.

As to the element of suprise.....i dont even consider it racist, and its quite frankly irresponsible going around accusing everyone who slights you of being a racist.

It's just provincial thinking which exists in all facets of American society.

Nothing should be a suprise in america anymore, check out the census.

Once you reconcile those numbers with the fact that driven people regardless of ethnicity can be accomplished, you will get it.

Edite to add....

and please, don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't the aspiration to become an haute-cuisine chef be predicated in large part on having attended haute-cuisine restaurants? At least in Southern California, I'd be shocked if the percentage of diners at great restaurants came anywhere near 13%. I'd guess it's more like 5%. My impression is that this is somewhat better in Manhattan, what is it like in other parts of the country?

Russ are you asking the percentage of Black customers ?

May have something to do with it.....but I think your point is early exposure to food and dining.

Most of the role models young black kids are looking up to arent chef's, most would rather be Allen iverson or Barak Obama on the other side of the scale.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)