Momofuku Ssäm Bar (2006–2007)

[ulterior epicure]

Per Se...which I haven't been to but I'm assuming its better than Ssam Bar.

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I've been to both, and I'm nodding vigorously - price point notwithstanding.

[gatilgan]

Don't go for lunch. As noted frequently in the past, the lunch menu is just the burrito ssams.  They're fine, but not what the restaurant is acclaimed for. If you want to go, try to make time for it at dinner.

At dinner you can do very well without ordering pork, provided that you eat fish and other meat.  I haven't looked at the online menu recently, but it I remember it being quite limited compared to what is actually on the menu at the restaurant.  If I were going to have a non pork dinner I would get the raw scallops, the mushroom salad, the skate and the lamb shoulder, but I would guess that there are at least 7-10 other non-pork dishes there.

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Ditto -- if you don't eat pork, but eat seafood and other meats, you'll be fine.

You could get the scallops, crab claws (if they have them), spanish mackeral, brussels sprouts, fried skate, chicken ballotine, mushroom salad, hanger steak ssam, shrimp and squid stew, lamb shoulder, bread and butter, etc. and all of the desserts, of course.

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Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Took the advice and my wife and I went for dinner tonite..

We had the followings:

Roasted mushroom salad

Fried Brussel sprouts

Grilled veal sweatbreads - I think they were were slightly more cooked/charred than I preferred as I like them fattier/creamier. Lots of salt on it and which went well with the lime. Pickled chilies and carrots were delicious.

Pan-Fried Skate- Simple but very well executed dish

Hanger Steak Ssam - One of the highlights of the night, very tender beef with ginger scallion sauce and kimchi. I wish there were more lettuces.

Cured Hamachi - Another great dish

Peanut Butter & Jelly with saltine ice cream - Totally delicious, I really liked the saltine ice cream. After each scoop, I needed little concord grape jelly before getting another scoop to balance the saltiness.

Overall, the food was very good and the ambiance was much better than we anticipated. I think it provides great value in terms of variety, execution and creativity. If I lived in NYC ( I live in Central NJ), I'd have been a frequent visitor.

[oakapple]

best restaurant to open in NY in three years.  imho.

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It's important not to confuse "best" with "most innovative". Ssäm Bar is definitely the most innovative restaurant of the last three years, or indeed, quite possibly the last ten. But because no one else has served two-star food in a zero-star environment, Chang's food seems better than it is. If the identical concept were moved into a real restaurant setting—thereby eliminating most of what makes Ssäm Bar unique—everyone would realize that it is simply a decent two-star restaurant.

[weinoo]

best restaurant to open in NY in three years.  imho.

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It's important not to confuse "best" with "most innovative". Ssäm Bar is definitely the most innovative restaurant of the last three years, or indeed, quite possibly the last ten. But because no one else has served two-star food in a zero-star environment, Chang's food seems better than it is. If the identical concept were moved into a real restaurant setting—thereby eliminating most of what makes Ssäm Bar unique—everyone would realize that it is simply a decent two-star restaurant.

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Or, if the food was also served in a traditional way in that real restaurant setting (i.e. apps, entrees, dessert), maybe it would get three-stars.

[Fat Guy]

I completely disagree, Marc. Two-star food in a zero-star environment wouldn't even be an innovation. The reason Ssam Bar has captured the imagination of such a significant cross-section of diners and critics is that, with respect to a substantial portion of the menu, there is no better food being served anywhere in New York City.

We could go through every dish on the menu, past and present, and say "this is a four-star dish" (many would qualify -- in particular there are dishes like the uni and the hamachi that, if served at Jean Georges, would fit seamlessly into a tasting), "this is a two-star dish," etc., but that would be a pointless exercise in trying to categorize a restaurant that rejects categories. Rather, the point is that you can go into Ssam Bar and eat anything (just to use examples of what I had last night) from a rustic bowl of spicy pork sausage with glutinous rice cakes that's basically an improved version of what you'd get at a downscale Asian restaurant, to a roasted mushroom salad that's as good as any comparable dish at a restaurant like Per Se or Jean Georges, to something eclectic like the apple kimchi with pork jowl and maple labne that you just couldn't find at any other restaurant.

No, people aren't saying "most innovative" by mistake. They're saying "best" and they mean exactly that.

[BryanZ]

And just to chime in. I enjoy the food at MSB more than that of many of the four stars. Is the food and experience objectively better at Daniel or Per Se? Most certainly, yes. Divorcing the food from their respective settings, however, I'd probably rather eat at MSB, even when one doesn't take price into account.

[zEli173]

Umm ... what Fat Guy said.

Although I'd add (and I think this is was already implied by FG) that the further advantage of the no star environment is that it gives David Chang the freedom to take risks that a four star place couldn't afford to (and which often result in great success, but do sometimes fail) as well as a license to serve some dishes that he doesn't care to refine to four star caliber.

[Nathan]

best restaurant to open in NY in three years.  imho.

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It's important not to confuse "best" with "most innovative". Ssäm Bar is definitely the most innovative restaurant of the last three years, or indeed, quite possibly the last ten. But because no one else has served two-star food in a zero-star environment, Chang's food seems better than it is. If the identical concept were moved into a real restaurant setting—thereby eliminating most of what makes Ssäm Bar unique—everyone would realize that it is simply a decent two-star restaurant.

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with all respect, that's ridiculous. according to your blog, you've had exactly two dishes there (neither of which were among the best 50% of the menu, and one of which was only on the menu briefly)...the food is much, much better than that.

[oakapple]

with all respect, that's ridiculous.  according to your blog, you've had exactly two dishes there (neither of which were among the best 50% of the menu, and one of which was only on the menu briefly)...the food is much, much better than that.

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Actually, I've dined there twice. One of those visits was the one you mentioned; the other, I was with someone else, and we ordered 5-6 things between us, which we shared. So no, I'm not basing my opinion on "exactly two dishes." And I'm not saying the place is bad, either: two stars means "very good". I'm just not totally smitten, the way some people are.

Having said that, restaurants are judged every day by their entire menu, not merely the best 50% of it. I mean, it's not as if I went into Peter Luger and ordered the salmon.

Edited December 30, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[Daniel]

Of the six things you ordered on a previous visit, you ordered pickled vegetables, raw oysters, and a ham plate.. Of those three things, two were not prepared by the restaurant.. You then finished the meal off brussels sprouts, hangar steak and a "barely touched" seafood stew that you use your friends opinion to recount as if you didnt try it..

I have no dog in this fight and am not so star oriented or really care where Momofuku places with other restaurants.. I am just saying, I dont think you have been to Momofuku enough, or ordered properly to make an educated opinion..

Though it looks from your site you only visit places once or twice and do limited ordering at the places you are reviewing..

I disagree with how you have put several restaurants of differing quality under the same star but, thats also just my opinion..

Nice website!

Edited December 30, 2007 by Daniel (log)

[oakapple]

I don't think you have been to Momofuku enough, or ordered properly to make an educated opinion.

Yes, but most consumers do indeed form an opinion—educated or otherwise—after one visit to a restaurant. You could easily browse this site, and find thousands of posts written after one visit. There are probably dozens on this thread alone. No restaurant can expect that all of its patrons will pay multiple visits and try the whole menu before they tell their friends what they thought about it.

Though it looks from your site you only visit places once or twice and do limited ordering at the places you are reviewing.

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Like most food bloggers (and eGullet Society posters), I am writing about my dining experiences. And I dine out, not as a job, but for fun. Like most consumers, I visit restaurants that interest me, and "order normally".

Indeed, I probably wouldn't have bothered with a second visit to Ssäm Bar, but for the levels of ecstasy in this discussion. I wondered, "Did I miss something?" My second trip left me with the same opinion: pretty good, but not orgasm-inducing. Although it is rather inconvenient for me to get there, I will probably pay a third visit at some point, if only because I cannot believe the comments here could be utterly without foundation, even if, to date, I haven't seen the merits in it that others have.

What I find remarkable is that I am being criticized, not because I think Momofuku Ssäm Bar is bad, but merely because I find it "only" very good.

Edited December 30, 2007 by oakapple (log)

[docsconz]

I agree, Marc. I also was less than thrilled with MSB when I went, but because of the continued raves of people whose opinions I value, I will likely return at some point even though I otherwise wouldn't based on my experience there. I also didn't think the food was bad. I just did not find it revelatory like so many here have and did not like the trappings that went along with it. Had the prices been in line with those trappings, I might have thought more highly of the place in terms of value, but they weren't.

 

[Moderator note: The original Momofuku Ssam Bar topic became too large for our servers to handle efficiently, so we've divided it up; the following part of this discussion is here: Momofuku Ssam Bar (2007– )]