Going vegetarian, possibly vegan.

[slbunge]

Also, there was the problem of bacon: how to not to miss it. I ended up experimenting a lot with caramelization, as well as with using smoked elements that weren't meat: not only pretty common players like smoked paprika (pimenton) and chipotles, and smoked cheeses, but also finding sources for things like smoked tomatoes. I don't have a smoker, but if I was going to seriously go hardcore vegetarian I'd get one.

←

Another thing to remember when substituting is that cured meats add lots of salt so don't skimp on the salt if you want to approach balance. I've cooked many meals for vegetarians and often where there was a crumble of bacon called for and I substitute very salty and crisp fried shallot or onion (takes only a minute in a skillet on the stovetop).

[H. du Bois]

I spent a year as a vegetarian when I was younger, and I have a bit of advice for you:

- Go the ovo-lacto route - veganism is very difficult to do healthily, no matter how well-intentioned it may be.

- Take a multivitamin supplement which is geared for vegetarians (they have them here in the US, I presume they have them in the UK). If not, get a multivitamin supplement that will provide you with the full-range of B vitamins.

- Pay attention if you start experiencing strange health problems. E.g., a strange skin rash might not be an allergic reaction to something, but rather a symptom of a vitamin deficiency (mine was!).

The above suggestions of focussing on world cuisines which just happen to be vegetarian are wise ones. Not only will you eat a variety of good food, but there are often good nutritional reasons for combining foods such as rice and beans.

I think it's a great idea, doing what you're doing. When I went back to eating meat, I did so with a greater consciousness of what I was doing and why.

[Carlovski]

I try to avoid popping pills as much as possible, but you are right, it might be sensible - at least while i get used to putting together a balanced diet.

Or I can just drink more Stout!

Seriously B12 might be an issue though - I think I might need to take supplements, as I said I'll try and keep clear of the processed stuff sold in so called 'Health Food' shops (Don't get me started on some of the crap they sell) and I hate yeast extract.

Iron won't be a problem - I like my greens to much for that (Although, no Anchovies )

Though for 3 months i doubt I would suffer any ill effects anyway - I'm sure I have plenty of reserves.

[Milagai]

Overall question:

please tell me what you find useful if you feel more

hungry than usual. I've heard from my meater friends that

vegetarian food does not provide the feeling of satiety as quickly

or long-lastingly as slabs of meat does....

What would you do to deal with that, assuming eating double

quantities is not an option

Please do tell me whether some strategies usually

suggested (whole grains rather than refined, and many

small meals rather than 3 large ones, etc) really work?

thanks

Milagai

Edited August 15, 2006 by Milagai (log)

[markemorse]

Cutting out refined flours and sugars will make you hungry less often...

Drinking more water than you usually do will help too, just always keep some cold in the fridge...

I've become semi-addicted to a thin salted yogurt drink called ayran (it's Turkish, at least mine is, but other surrounding countries have their own versions), I frequently have some of that when I'm hungry between meals.

But the biggest thing you can do to avoid hunger is avoid bullshit foods with HFCS as well as avoiding refined flours/sugars.

Eat plenty of fiber...

There's a related thread going on right now here, it's unpromisingly titled (the thread), but many of these questions are being talked about.

Edited August 15, 2006 by markemorse (log)

[Chufi]

I do eat meat, but not a lot of it, and most of the time I look at it as an addition to my menu, instead of the main player. Going vegan would be difficult for me though - I do love my cheese!

Anyway, I just wanted to recommend one of my favorite cookbooks, Anna Thomas' The Vegetarian Epicure. The recipes are organized as menus, both simple and fancy, and all of them are the kind of food that you can serve to meat-eaters and only after dinner they realize they ate a vegetarian dinner

She has a nice website with lots of recipes, although it isn't updated regualrly anymore. I just love her approach to food.

Vegetarian Epicure

[Carlovski]

I don't think i will have too much problem with the being hungry aspect. I am not really a snacker - although occasionally I do eat from boredom, and sometimes I just have hungry days.

I'm not going to cut back on my pasta, bread and rice - and those are all mainly going to be white by the way. I'm pretty much my recommended weight (Bit under if anything) and always have been (Apart from a brief splurge in my second year at university - but that was partially due to wrecking my ankle playing rugby at 2am and not being able to play sport for 6 months). I may have to be a bit more careful as I approach 30 though!

[H. du Bois]

Seriously B12 might be an issue though - I think I might need to take supplements, as I said I'll try and keep clear of the processed stuff sold in so called 'Health Food' shops (Don't get me started on some of the crap they sell) and I hate yeast extract.

Iron won't be a problem - I like my greens to much for that (Although, no Anchovies  )

Though for 3 months i doubt I would suffer any ill effects anyway - I'm sure I have plenty of reserves.

I still recommend that you get a broad range all-the-B-vitamins supplement. Ask your chemist for a good one - the health food store stuff is crap. I can't remember which B vitamin I was lacking (B3 or B6), but it ended up causing health issues for me, despite trying very hard to do everything right. Don't count on having reserves - you may not necessarily be inclined to eat the vegetables which are alternate sources of these nutrients. Good luck!

[Bond Girl]

I don't think you would have a problem as well. I do think that the meater eater's dilemma for not being satiated is psychological. If people pay attention to how they feel, when they eat, they would know when they are full...(and conseqently not over eat).

Beans are a good source for many vitamins and nutirents and you are already on that....so there's no real need to pop all those supplement pills. As a side note, if you haven't checked out Rancho Gordo's selection of mail order beans, corn and chile, you probably should. He's on eG and has one of the best recipe for vegetarian Pozole.

I like your attitude about rice, pasta and bread...and also about cheating. It's sensible. If you cut out everything, what's the point? You'd might be healthier (and for that the jury is still out) but you won't be enjoying anything.

[Carlovski]

I don't want to turn like an old housemate of mine who used to eat crap and think it was ok because he took loads of food supplements.

B12 I think is the only thing i might go short on. I'm sure the odd bag of twiglets will sort that one out though!

I don't want to offend anyone, and I know some people have got a great amount of relief by cutting certain things out of their diets or changing their eating habits but I do believe that most so called food intolerances are psychological - or in fact completely non existent. Eat a load of starch, not a lot of fibre and do no exercise, and you probably will feel bloated and lethargic - but it's not all the pasta's fault.

I'm going to stick to white bread, noodles, pasta, couscous, and white rice. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe they are no good for me.

But they are definitely tasty.

Re the Rancho Gordo stuff - not sure If I can get that in the UK. I might try a bit of Mexican food - probably tweaked to suit availability of the ingredients, but it isn't really a cuisine I feel comfortable with unlike indian or italian - I'd have to follow a recipe rather than cook in a style based around what I have to hand/what is in season.

[Carlovski]

I am still using up the 'forbidden' stuff in my fridge at the moment.

I think I'll probably start this weekend - Farmers market in Southampton on Saturday. If I remember I'll take my Camera and get a few piccies.

Should be able to get some half decent tomatoes from the Isle of Wight.

Should be some sweetcorn about too, and possibly some good courgettes.

Here are the producers who should be there.

[Ondine]

Let me just add my two monetary units here.

One thing I did find I missed during a shortish vegetarian stint was the chewy texture of meat, and not necessarily the flavour.

I found a good way to get the texture I wanted was to get a standard package of water-packed tofu (silken or momen) and freeze it. The tofu will go a deceptively alarming translucent pale amber colour. When thawed, the tofu's texture will have toughened slightly and become spongy.

This stuff can be used in stews or gravies (with excess water squeezed out) to literally soak up flavours like a sponge, while giving that meatlike chewiness.

I know you can buy the ready-freeze-dried Japanese tofu, but this is a very easy way to make something similar at home.

Or am I preaching to the converted?

[Carlovski]

Well I've started....

Made a trip to the farmers market (And also a supermarket stop for all the stuff I couldn't get). Not as good as the Winchester one, and the 'pick and mix' salad stall wasn't there - that place is really good, especially as they treat herbs the same as the other leaves.

Just had a very pleasant lunch of a huge Fritatta I made with nice free range eggs, 'rainbow lights' chard, green beans, a few tiny courgettes, pepper and some large very mild chillis - all from local farms. I topped it with a little bit of a local cheese called Lyburn - never tried it before - like a very aged cheddar, almost parmesan like in it's texture, and very good. So definitely not Vegan - it was quite a dairy based meal.

To be honest it is probably exactly what I would have had anyway - Although I might normally sneak some bacon in there!

I'm oven drying a load of baby plum tomatoes with some garlic and herbs too. I'll keep them under oil as emergency flavour bombs.

For tea i think I'll make up some pesto (Possibly throw in a few handfuls of some extremely peppery watercress I picked up too - Hampshire is the Watercress capital of the UK) and have it with the rest of the green beans, some potatoes and linguini.

The supermarket near me has a small indian section so I picked up some sambar mix and stuff for making dosas and idli - never tried making it myself before so it could be interesting. Might give it a go tomorrow - I've got some carrots and aubergine I can throw in too.

[Audiofan2]

Good to see you are still sticking with it. I have found cooking for my mom and other vegitarian friends that using wine helps. I know it sounds strange however a bit of white wine with some mushrooms, or red wine with a vegie stir fry adds some of the depth found in meats. The farmer's markets are a great source for variety, we have many nice ones here in Oregon.

Personally I could never do it though, just too many types of meat (and preperation) to enjoy. I think it would be very difficult to receive a food magazine in the mail, find something I like and have to substitute tofu for the meat.

Reminds me of my favorite ad "We love vegitarians, more beef for us"

[mizducky]

Good luck!

In the past, I've tried and failed several times to go vegetarian--just way too ferocious a carnivore/meat addict, I just wasn't feeling satiated. But then I had my first gout attack, and suddenly I had some extremely strong (OW!!!) motivation to cut way down on my meat intake. I'm still not a vegetarian, nor planning to be, but I do eat numerous meatless meals--and also went to some lengths to try and analyze what qualities of meat really turned me on, so that I could imbue my meatless meals with those qualities for better food satisfaction.

For me, it was a combination of the chewy mouthfeel, the savory "umami" flavor, and the richness due to the fat content. So I set about coming up with non-meat foods that captured one or more of those qualities. Several people, including yourself, have already mentioned a number of the go-to foods I lit upon: high-umami foods like mushrooms, tomatoes, fermented condiments (soy sauce, Worcester sauce, etc.), sea vegetables, parmesan cheese, etc.; foods with naturally meatlike texture, especially mushrooms both fresh and dried. Certain cooking methods also really bring out the more savory, "meatlike" qualities of vegetables--premier among these is roasting, but braising, especially of veggies in big chunks, and grilling/broiling also work great.

Other things that have already been mentioned, that have worked very well for me: making something other than the protein item the main focus of the meal--especially the vegetables, which even these days still tend to get relegated to side-dish status in European-influenced cuisines; and reliance on ethnic cuisines with long-established traditions of low/no-meat cooking.

And if you've got access to a reasonably well-equipped Asian grocery, I strenuously want to recommend fermented bean curd as a great boon to former animal-protein consumers. If you've not played with it before, it's kind of the super-stinky-blue-cheese of the tofu world. It's sold as small cubes in *extremely* fragrant brine in jars, and a couple of cubes of it in a rice porridge is enough to provide tons of complex umami-rich flavor, enough to keep this former meat-addict pretty well sated! Our resident Chinese food pictorial maestro, Ah Leung, has at least a couple of recipes using the stuff in his cooking pictorials--I'm just too lazy right at this moment to hunt down links to the specific recipes.

[Milagai]

Good luck!

Other things that have already been mentioned, that have worked very well for me: making something other than the protein item the main focus of the meal--especially the vegetables, which even these days still tend to get relegated to side-dish status in European-influenced cuisines; and reliance on ethnic cuisines with long-established traditions of low/no-meat cooking.

←

Acxshully, it's not like vegetables have 0 protein - most

ingredients have small amounts of protein that all add up.

Second, most vegetarian cuisines DO include a protein component

as an important part of the meal (e.g. a dal or paneer dish in

the Indian food plate, which we often speak

of as the "main dish", even though it may occupy a smaller

proportion of the plate as compared to slab-o-

beast), and there's all the other things that are

important too - the rice / roti; and some of the veggies...

The Indian food plate looks pretty similar, whether it's vegetarian

or non-vegetarian: the quantity and placement of the grain (rice or roti)

and of the other dishes....

Milagai

[Carlovski]

Good to see you are still sticking with it. I have found cooking for my mom and other vegitarian friends that using wine helps. I know it sounds strange however a bit of white wine with some mushrooms, or red wine with a vegie stir fry adds some of the depth found in meats. The farmer's markets are a great source for variety, we have many nice ones here in Oregon.

Personally I could never do it though, just too many types of meat (and preperation) to enjoy. I think it would be very difficult to receive a food magazine in the mail, find something I like and have to substitute tofu for the meat.

Reminds me of my favorite ad "We love vegitarians, more beef for us"

←

I find wine helps in general!

You are right - simply substituting tofu into a meat recipe will leave you unsatisfied - which is why it is not a good idea to simply use it as a meat substitute.

[Carlovski]

Good luck!

In the past, I've tried and failed several times to go vegetarian--just way too ferocious a carnivore/meat addict, I just wasn't feeling satiated. But then I had my first gout attack, and suddenly I had some extremely strong (OW!!!) motivation to cut way down on my meat intake. I'm still not a vegetarian, nor planning to be, but I do eat numerous meatless meals--and also went to some lengths to try and analyze what qualities of meat really turned me on, so that I could imbue my meatless meals with those qualities for better food satisfaction.

For me, it was a combination of the chewy mouthfeel, the savory "umami" flavor, and the richness due to the fat content. So I set about coming up with non-meat foods that captured one or more of those qualities. Several people, including yourself, have already mentioned a number of the go-to foods I lit upon: high-umami foods like mushrooms, tomatoes, fermented condiments (soy sauce, Worcester sauce, etc.), sea vegetables, parmesan cheese, etc.; foods with naturally meatlike texture, especially mushrooms both fresh and dried. Certain cooking methods also really bring out the more savory, "meatlike" qualities of vegetables--premier among these is roasting, but braising, especially of veggies in big chunks, and grilling/broiling also work great.

Other things that have already been mentioned, that have worked very well for me: making something other than the protein item the main focus of the meal--especially the vegetables, which even these days still tend to get relegated to side-dish status in European-influenced cuisines; and reliance on ethnic cuisines with long-established traditions of low/no-meat cooking.

And if you've got access to a reasonably well-equipped Asian grocery, I strenuously want to recommend fermented bean curd as a great boon to former animal-protein consumers. If you've not played with it before, it's kind of the super-stinky-blue-cheese of the tofu world. It's sold as small cubes in *extremely* fragrant brine in jars, and a couple of cubes of it in a rice porridge is enough to provide tons of complex umami-rich flavor, enough to keep this former meat-addict pretty well sated! Our resident Chinese food pictorial maestro, Ah Leung, has at least a couple of recipes using the stuff in his cooking pictorials--I'm just too lazy right at this moment to hunt down links to the specific recipes.

←

I've tried fermented bean curd - a step to far for me I'm afraid (Odd as I love the stinkiest of cheeses) Mushrooms are my 'go to' food when I want something to sink my teeth into. I made some fantastic mushrooms on toast the other day (Big chunks of a mixture of chesnut and portabello mushrooms, plenty of garlic, butter, shake of mushroom ketchup slow cooked until dark and sticky, put on top of some wilted greens (Cooked in garlic of course!) and put on thick hunks of sourdough toasted on a griddle and drizzled with evoo - most importantly pour all the juices from the pan all over the top) It was much more 'meaty' than the rather sad looking (and overcooked!) thin chewy steak my housemate was eating.

I haven't gone to the chinese supermarket yet - I need to stock up on the essentials - and pick up some decent tofu.

[Carlovski]

Well it's been about two Months now.

I have surprised myself by how 'good' I have been - I haven't eaten out a lot, but when I have I have stuck to the diet - even though my rules did allow me to make exceptions.

I also haven't touched any 'meat subsitute' products and the only ready meal type thing I had were some butternut squash and vegetable bake things I tried because they sounded reasonably edible and only contained 'real' ingredients (Verdict, not too bad). Oh and the odd frozen/chilled pizza!

Things I have learned are

- I'm not really a big fan of tofu, unless it is deep fried, something about the slippery texture I dislike, unless it's pudding! Also I think I only really like it in conjunction with meat (especially pork) - even if the meat is just there as a flavouring.

- Autumn is a good time of year - Mushrooms, Squashes etc.

- I cannot cook polenta.

- Bad, lumpy and over runny (so it won't set) polenta is still edible with enough butter and gorganzola.

- Finding things for lunch is tricky - especially sandwiches.

- Most UK takeaways have a rubbish selection for vegetarians.

- It's very easy to end up eating the sterotypical brown and stodgy grain and pulse based diet, especially if you miss going to the shops.

I'm not sure whether to carry on for longer. Not too bothered about missing meat in general, but I am missing cooking with cured meats. I am missing fish too (And anchovies!). I might start gently introducing them back into my diet. Maybe a bit of game too (It is Autumn, and I do live in Hampshire!)

[emmalish]

Good for you! I gave up eating meat two separate times. The first time I was living in Alberta (big meat-producing/meat-eating area) and I gave up because there just wasn't anything to eat. After I moved to Vancouver, a city far more accepting of vegetarianism, I tried it again. I still eat eggs and dairy, and I went back to eating seafood after awhile, but I haven't eaten meat (on purpose) in about 15 years.

I don't miss it at all (except at Christmas when everyone else is having turkey & stuffing & gravy), but it's been so long that when I do eat something with meat in it, I have troubles with digestion. And I don't mean nausea. It gets pretty painful. So for that reason alone I make sure to avoid it, but like I said, I don't miss it. There have just been a few times when I've been assured something is vegetarian, only to find out (after the aftermath) that oh yeah, it was made with chicken stock. Isn't that still vegetarian? But if you plan to still eat meat on occasion, this should never be a problem for you.

I agree with you about the poor lunch options for vegetarians, especially in the sandwich department. Most places will have multiple lovely creative sandwiches with different meats and cheeses, and one sad vegetable sandwich with everything crammed on it, whether they'll taste good together or not. Same at most pizza places. But I looked around and found different sandwich places with different offerings, so at least I end up with some options. Some will make a custom sandwich for you so you can be a lot more creative.

This time of year, soup is my friend. There are always lots of yummy vegetable soups offered in the neighbourhood.

All I can recommend lunch-wise really is try all the different shops in your area and see what they have.