Early Dinner

[mikeycook]

Yesterday, my mother-in-law and I were discussing a couple she knows who dine out frequently in New York. They have been to a lot of the top places and they almost never come back with a balanced critique of the restaurants they visit. The meal is either "wonderful, unique, etc" or "horrible, vile, etc" (I would share some specifics, but given the lack of balance in their approach, I find myself doubting their conclusions). Nevertheless, they have gone to many of the same places we have and some they have loved and some they have hated. I just found out that they always try to get a dinner reservation around 5pm and almost never after 6pm. When asked why, they always state that they simply like to eat early.

As I thought about it, I began to wonder if their choice of eating time was affecting their meals at certain places. While on the one hand, any top restaurant should be able to serve a customer equally as well at 5pm as at 8pm, there is also an argument that says that at 5pm the restaurant is not into "the flow" of the evening yet and there are bound to be issues because the kitchen and staff haven't had time to warm up.

So, this leads me to my two questions. First, do restaurants give a substantially different experience intentional or otherwise, to customers who dine early (say before 6:30). Second, is it a legitimate knock on a top restaurant (2-4 stars) if this is the case?

[Sneakeater]

Unless they're charging you less for an early meal, I'd say it's a legitimate knock.

[murkcury]

Absolutely a legit knock. It is entirely inexcusable for a restaurant to provide a sub-par experience simply because of the time. If they are open for business at a certain time and are willing to seat guests (and take their money) then they have a responsibility to provide that guest with a full experience, regardless if it is 5:30 or 9:00.

[phaelon56]

Unless they're charging you less for an early meal, I'd say it's a legitimate knock.

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And by the same token... if it's a place that dccepts you for a rather late seating you should expect the same quality of food and service. And not be given the bum's rush to push you out the door so the staff can go home.

[freshherbs]

having had a baby 4 months ago, i have recently become an early eater. i find it hard sometimes to separate the atmosphere from the enjoyment. it is sometimes a bummer to be the only people in a restaurant even if the food is great.

to wit, we often eat at the bar at gramercy tavern at 5. it is always packed and always a great meal. a few weeks back we had a 6 pm sunday res at wd50 and were the only people in there. for some reason, it was the worse of many experiences i have had there. was it the food? maybe. but it also definitely had something to do with the atmosphere

either way, if i am paying for a good meal that is what i expect, regardless of whether it is 5 or 10

[SeanDirty]

Yesterday, my mother-in-law and I were discussing a couple she knows who dine out frequently in New York.  They have been to a lot of the top places and they almost never come back with a balanced critique of the restaurants they visit.  The meal is either "wonderful, unique, etc" or "horrible, vile, etc" (I would share some specifics, but given the lack of balance in their approach, I find myself doubting their conclusions).  Nevertheless, they have gone to many of the same places we have and some they have loved and some they have hated.  I just  found out that they always try to get a dinner reservation around 5pm and almost never after 6pm.  When asked why, they always state that they simply like to eat early.

As I thought about it, I began to wonder if their choice of eating time was affecting their meals at certain places.  While on the one hand, any top restaurant should be able to serve a customer equally as well at 5pm as at 8pm, there is also an argument that says that at 5pm the restaurant is not into "the flow" of the evening yet and there are bound to be issues because the kitchen and staff haven't had time to warm up.

So, this leads me to my two questions.  First, do restaurants give a substantially different experience intentional or otherwise, to customers who dine early (say before 6:30).  Second, is it a legitimate knock on a top restaurant (2-4 stars) if this is the case?

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In very short, YES! and this is the reason, most if not all take their family meal, at around that time 4:30 or so is the transitiion period from lunch staff to dinner, also all the meetings, and of course food, tastings. So going into any restaurant around that time is generally not a great idea. Because the staff will be preoccupied with meetings, or tastings, or eating their lunches.... Try to make later reservation!

[Hest88]

If a restaurant is not prepared to open, it shouldn't open. It would be inexcusable for a restaurant to give sub-par service because they're just "getting into the groove" just as much as if they gave bad service near closing time because they were "tired and wanted to go home."

[Sneakeater]

There are all sorts of understandable reasons why an early dinner at a restaurant wouldn't work. But that doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate knock if the restaurant doesn't overcome them. Restaurant meals are expensive, ya know?

Edited August 8, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Hest88]

Not just that, but I'm picturing me telling my boss I could only produce sub-par work during the first hour I was in the office. Unthinkable!

[Busboy]

Yesterday, my mother-in-law and I were discussing a couple she knows who dine out frequently in New York.  They have been to a lot of the top places and they almost never come back with a balanced critique of the restaurants they visit.  The meal is either "wonderful, unique, etc" or "horrible, vile, etc" (I would share some specifics, but given the lack of balance in their approach, I find myself doubting their conclusions).  Nevertheless, they have gone to many of the same places we have and some they have loved and some they have hated.  I just  found out that they always try to get a dinner reservation around 5pm and almost never after 6pm.  When asked why, they always state that they simply like to eat early.

As I thought about it, I began to wonder if their choice of eating time was affecting their meals at certain places.  While on the one hand, any top restaurant should be able to serve a customer equally as well at 5pm as at 8pm, there is also an argument that says that at 5pm the restaurant is not into "the flow" of the evening yet and there are bound to be issues because the kitchen and staff haven't had time to warm up.

So, this leads me to my two questions.  First, do restaurants give a substantially different experience intentional or otherwise, to customers who dine early (say before 6:30).  Second, is it a legitimate knock on a top restaurant (2-4 stars) if this is the case?

←

In very short, YES! and this is the reason, most if not all take their family meal, at around that time 4:30 or so is the transitiion period from lunch staff to dinner, also all the meetings, and of course food, tastings. So going into any restaurant around that time is generally not a great idea. Because the staff will be preoccupied with meetings, or tastings, or eating their lunches.... Try to make later reservation!

←

Unless you're going to a cafe or an informal place that serves all afternoon, staff meals and meetings should be done by the time the first customer is admitted.

From working in restaurants, my experience is that an early diner is far more likely to have service problems than food problems on an early dinner, as servers trying to be unobtrusive are more likely to put themselves out of sight and out of mind of the tables, whereas the cooks are right there on the line.

[Luckylies]

There are all sorts of understandable reasons why an early dinner at a restaurant wouldn't work.  But that doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate knock if the restaurant doesn't overcome them.  Restaurant meals are expensive, ya know?

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Even in the best restaurants, sometimes the first few covers are a bit spotty. It shouldn't be this way but, it's the first oppertunity for a cook to go..."oops forgot to cut my mushrooms"

is it okay? no.

does it happen? totally and completely.

Was I sorry all the times I forgot something? yep.

[Nathan]

I'm going to partially disagree.

often, you will receive a somewhat different experience if you eat at 5:30 and there's no way around it.

"If a restaurant is not prepared to open, it shouldn't open. It would be inexcusable for a restaurant to give sub-par service because they're just "getting into the groove" just as much as if they gave bad service near closing time because they were "tired and wanted to go home.""

yes and no. I've often seen this criticism used when a restaurant performs sub-parly on opening day or in the first week or so (witness the comments on opening day on RUB at chowhound -- pretty fricking hilarious -- "I will never eat there again because they ran out of this and did this.....")...if we all lived in Oz we could expect a restaurant to have sufficient financial backing to go through 3 months of soft-openings and paying its staff while they worked out the kinks before charging anyone. Reality is different.

Likewise, although we would like for a restaurant to provide exactly the same experience at any time of day, its not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't notice this and critique it, but it is part of the context that should also be noted. Obviously, our expectations are different based on the price point as well.

To analogize, we all know that Friday and Saturday evening are "amateur night" and the worst time to eat at virtually any NY restaurant. And I'd suggest that as knowledgeable diners we are all more tolerant of restaurant errors on Friday and Saturday night than during the week.

[Tess]

To analogize, we all know that Friday and Saturday evening are "amateur night" and the worst time to eat at virtually any NY restaurant.  And I'd suggest that as knowledgeable diners we are all more tolerant of restaurant errors on Friday and Saturday night than during the week.

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Yes, and I think that if you do eat out fairly often, you develop a sense of when a restaurant is struggling a little because of the time or day of the week-- as opposed to when it wouldn't be better even if you came at a more opportune time. I was recently at a local place on a Saturday at 8, and the service wasn't as good as we get on a Thursday. The manager apologized for some delay and we said, "We understand it's a busy time." He replied, "If I'm no good to you on Saturday, I'm no good period," or something to that effect. If that had been my first time I would not have been too excited with the service, but I would have given them another chance because it was obvious what was happening.

[Mikeb19]

A REAL professional restaurant will be able to provide the same quality of food at any time of the night. Servers should be able to provide the same level of service as well. Of course this often isn't the case. Often cooks still don't have their MEP ready at 5, often they count on not having customers until 6 or later and then when someone does come in early they're not ready to go. Often servers are eating their own staff meals at 5, or talking on their phones, and otherwise not paying attention to the customer. Shouldn't happen, but it does, even in top restaurants.