L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon NYC (2006 - 2008)

[Nathan]

well, as Bruni makes clear in today's review:

Atelier has indeed dropped their prices. As I've said, Atelier clearly served 3 (and sometimes 4) star food in a 3-star ambience with 3 star service...the problem was the four star prices. although the main tasting menu is still an outlier it appears that most of the prices are now in line with the food and the rating makes sense.

[Sneakeater]

For once, I think Bruni nailed it. Not just the star rating (which is fairly meaningless), but the analysis.

It's interesting to note that his criticisms were not primarily of the food. I tend to disagree with Nathan that this is clearly "not four-star food." I think that in a different setting, with a different service model, it could be.

(As I've said above, I think the whole Atelier concept was intended to sort of confound the "star system".)

[Sneakeater]

Having said all that, the problem with the Atelier concept (putting aside the problem with the NYC branch that it doesn't make sense to have an Atelier on the inside of a fancy urban hotel) is that it's never going to be as easy to eat there as the concept seems to anticipate, so it's never going to be the no-fuss (albeit expensive) stopover that the concept seems to anticipate.

[oakapple]

For once, I think Bruni nailed it.  Not just the star rating (which is fairly meaningless), but the analysis.

It's interesting to note that his criticisms were not primarily of the food.  I tend to disagree with Nathan that this is clearly "not four-star food."  I think that in a different setting, with a different service model, it could be.

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I agree. As far as the food goes, Bruni was as enthusiastic as he has ever been.

[Sneakeater]

Just to be clear about what I meant to be saying, though, I didn't just mean that I disagree with Nathan's assessment of Bruni's assessment of the food. I also -- and primarily -- meant that I disagree with Nathan's assessment of the food in chief.* I think it's better than he does.

___________________________________________________

* That came out wrong. It sounds like I'm talking about the food after some tribal leader or fire department functionary has ingested it.

[Nathan]

to clarify:

I didn't mean to imply that Bruni thinks it is three-star food, he didn't say.

I think it is very high-level three (sometimes four) star food.

[BryanZ]

Well, Bruni certainly loves the place. The four-course "club" menu for $60 sounds interesting for a cheaper introduction to the Atelier. I wish I knew what was on it.

[robert40]

Short video.

http://www.savorynewyork.com/wiki/L%27Atel...C3%ABl_Robuchon

[PaulaJK]

We dined here last evening and I find myself tilting towards Skye rather than

Sneakeater [whose reports I greatly enjoyed!]. Obviously, I may not have done my homework sufficiently and expected far, far more.

We enjoyed a pre dinner cocktail at the elegant but noisey bar. The $20 matini was nicely made & accompanied by excellent mixed nuts, olives & a few crackers.

I would not refer to the service as warm. The bar noise wafts into the restaurant which is open in design.

The greeting and seating in the restaurant is far cooler and more formal than one would wish...and certainly more formal than the attire of many of the guests.

We had chosen to be seated at a table which turned out to be a cramped banquet

which required the waiter to totally remove the table [not just half turn it] to permit entry. The service was cool, efficient and correct but neither warm nor elegant. The tables look like a Valhrona wrapper, all black covering w. accents of red in the butter dish and water glass, which unfortunately is without stem and resembles a fruit juice glass. We were asked if we wished mineral or sparkling water; do your think that our choice of non bottled water was what led to the absence of ice in the water??? We had to request refills. Bread was served to the plate once and not offered again despite its being consumed.

We enjoyed the langoustine, a solo act for its lofty price...but certainly I've had equal. My husband's blue fin tuna was overwhelmed by the chopped dried tomato

atop the slices. I thought the frog legs were rather uninteresting and unremarkable; they reminded me of an hors passed on a tray. I enjoyed the quail

but no more than I usually enjoy quail. The potatoes are magnificent but were tepid. My husband enjoyed his hanger steak.

A rather new [2005] and unremarkable bottle of Fleurie was wildly overpriced at $75.......I doubt that it cost more than $10. We twice requested that it be poured.

Coffee was excellent & accompanied by one macaron, leaving one feeling that generosity of spirit is absent here.

.

[robyn]

We dined here last evening and I find myself tilting towards Skye rather than

Sneakeater [whose reports I greatly enjoyed!]. Obviously, I may not have done my homework sufficiently and expected far, far more.

  We enjoyed a pre dinner cocktail at the elegant but noisey bar. The $20 matini was nicely made & accompanied by excellent mixed nuts, olives & a few crackers.

I would not refer to the service as warm. The bar noise wafts into the restaurant which is open in design.

  The greeting and seating in the restaurant is far cooler and more formal than one would wish...and certainly more formal than the attire of many of the guests.

We had chosen to be seated at a table which turned out to be a cramped banquet

which required the waiter to totally remove the table [not just half turn it] to permit entry. The service was cool, efficient and correct but neither warm nor elegant. The tables look like a Valhrona wrapper, all black covering w. accents of red in the butter dish and water glass, which unfortunately is without stem and resembles a fruit juice glass. We were asked if we wished mineral or sparkling water; do your think that our choice of non bottled water was what led to the absence of ice in the water??? We had to request refills. Bread was served to the plate once and not offered again despite its being consumed.

  We enjoyed the langoustine, a solo act for its lofty price...but certainly I've had equal. My husband's blue fin tuna was overwhelmed by the chopped dried tomato

atop the slices. I thought the frog legs were rather uninteresting and unremarkable; they reminded me of an hors passed on a tray. I enjoyed the quail

but no more than I usually enjoy quail. The potatoes are magnificent but were tepid. My husband enjoyed his hanger steak.

  A rather new [2005] and unremarkable bottle of Fleurie was wildly overpriced at $75.......I doubt that it cost more than $10. We twice requested that it be poured.

   Coffee was excellent & accompanied by one macaron, leaving one feeling that generosity of spirit is absent here.

.

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A $20 martini - really? That seems excessive - even by big city standards these days. Vodka - gin - what brand? Robyn

P.S. We were in the Four Seasons in Palo Alto last month - and a reasonable martini with the sides (nuts and the like) was about $8-10. Good pour too.

Edited October 13, 2006 by robyn (log)

[Sneakeater]

As I recall, they use stuff on the level of Tanqueray. No way it's worth it. Although, in their favor, when I used to go to that bar when it was new (and the martinis were only $14), they served them to you in the shaker and you really got more like 1 1/2 maritinis -- two, even, if you consider how enormous their glasses were (at least then).

OTOH, the Old Fashioned I had at the counter at Atelier (which AFAIK was made at the bar and brought over) was just a normal-sized Old Fashioned. $20 was rather shocking for it.

Edited October 13, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Nathan]

to be fair to Atelier, I think the cocktails are made at the regular 4 Seasons bar and charged at that bar's standard rate.

robyn: a martini anywhere in the city is going to put you back $12.

of course, you do expect decent booze at that price. I remember being appalled that the $12 house sidecar at The Tasting Room was made with triple sec.

[oakapple]

Even by NYC standards, $20 for a martini is high. There aren't many venues that could get away with it. But this may be one of them.

[Sneakeater]

To emphasize, it isn't Atelier that's charging $20 a drink. It's the 57-57 Bar at the Four Seasons, which also provides cocktail service for the adjacent restaurant.

Since that bar is usually packed, I suppose they can get away with it pretty well.

[BryanZ]

Paula, did you happen to note what the "club" menu was or included?

[PaulaJK]

Sorry BryanZ, I didn't notice the 'club' menu. There was a chef's tasting menu priced at $160 and the regular menu which had small tasting portions

listed on its left hand side and entrees on its right.

Indeed, the cocktail [beefeater martini...but all martinis were $20 as I recall unless made w. some of the special vodkas which were higher priced] originated in the Four Seasons bar....but the $75 bottle of Fleurie was from the restaurant!

I found the entire experieince outrageous. Within the week I had enjoyed the [signature] tasting menu at Jean George, priced at $110 and including a generous spoon of caviar in 'the egg'. So Atelier didn't do it for me on price point but more importantly, on ambiance, service or cuisine. To each...........

[Sneakeater]

There can be no denying that the wine prices there are ridiculous.

[robyn]

to be fair to Atelier, I think the cocktails are made at the regular 4 Seasons bar and charged at that bar's standard rate.

robyn:  a martini anywhere in the city is going to put you back $12.

of course, you do expect decent booze at that price.  I remember being appalled that the $12 house sidecar at The Tasting Room was made with triple sec.

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Oh yes - I'm used to $12 in New York and similar large cities in the US - maybe $14 in Tokyo or London - think the martinis in the Four Seasons in Tokyo were about $14 - and even $8-10 here in nicer bars in the Jacksonville area - but I've never seen $20 before for basically a well gin (like Beefeater) martini. Not that there is anything wrong with Beefeater (it's my usual - although I like Plymouth too when it's available). But - when a whole 1.75 liter bottle of Beefeater at Total Wine here costs $25 and change...

Note that when my husband and I travel - it is not unusual for us to each have 1-2 martinis at the end of the day at our hotel.* So those bar tabs can start to add up.

The wine markups are bothersome too. 250-300% is about our absolute limit before we think we're being ripped off. It's one thing to pay $25 for $10 wine - quite another to pay $60 or more. Robyn

* - Good martini joke. Why are martinis like breasts? Because one isn't enough - and three are too many. Another good martini ditty - courtesy of Dorothy Parker -I like to have a martini, two at the very most. After three I'm under the table, after four I'm under my host.

[robyn]

Food is an entirely different issue price-wise than liquor. I can make a beefeater martini at home (or in my hotel room for that matter). I can't cook world class food in either. Although I am very reluctant to spoil my probably overblown memories of eating at Jamin (I was a lot younger - it was maybe 25 years ago - and less jaded) - I will probably wind up in New York or Las Vegas one of these days - and want to try one of the Robuchon restaurants (didn't do it in Tokyo because that was basically a Japanese-food-only trip). Have any of you tried more than one of these places - and - if so - what did you think? I assume if you have to choose one - it would be the Mansion in Las Vegas. Robyn

[robyn]

Ate here last week and had almost everything.  Must say that my overall feeling was dissapointment.  Some things were very good, but others were not good at all (ie the foie gras burgers-the brioche buns were absolutely saturated with fat, and the little burger patties were hard and dry.  Now, you could say that of course a foie gras burger is greasy, but both of these problems could and should have been addressed in the recipe development stage).  To me, a cook who's spent my entire career being told that Joel Robuchon was essentially the everlasting pinnacle of chefdom, it seems that "very good" doesn't really cut it, at least not at this price point.  Lots of things were under- or over-seasoned, the lemon/vanilla amuse thingy tasted like soap (am I really the only person who noticed this?) and I'm still waiting for someone else on this board to point out that while the pastrami and the foie gras on the pastrami dish were quite good on their own, together they taste EXACTLY like braunschwieger, which is a nasty flavor that I'd hoped I'd left in my childhood.  I feel like new york diners tend to conflate fat with good flavor, and as such I'm not suprised to read everyone's rapturous posts, and also, I think there's a tendency to WANT to like a meal that you've spent $165 on.  However, I wish I heard a little more critical eating going on.  Folks, for $15 a bite, you deserve to be amazed by every single sensation.  Dishes shouldn't start out good, but get too salty as you keep eating, or be overcooked, or be ordinary.  The sphere desert sounds like it might do the trick-my dining companion and I didn't order any desserts, preferring to sample as many savories as possibles, so I'll have to go back and give it a shot. I'm not a big Bruni fan, but I think every once in a while he hits a nice line drive, and I predict a massacre.

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I agree with Skye. I know people are fighting the "foie gras" wars - but whatever the merits of that fight - foie gras is boring. Chefs right here in Jacksonville Florida get their foie gras from the same place most major US chefs get theirs from (as do I when I order on the internet) - and they know how to cook it too. And you can get the best 5 course tasting menu in town here - which is pretty darn good - for $55. So for $165 - or $250 - or $350 - I want a little more creativity. I want something like that first whole sea urchin with quail egg I had at Jamin (which was - curiously the last whole sea urchin I had until more than 20 years later at David, Burke & Donatella). At those price levels - you're looking for more than culinary cliches (as well as excellent executions and presentations). Robyn

[AlexForbes]

I had dinner at the Atelier with a friend last Thursday, and have posted a lengthy report - with photos of every dish on the tasting menu - on my site, l'Atelier report

I loved most of it and had a wonderful, wonderful time - worth every dollar.

I've re-read some posts on this forum, and I confess I'm puzzled by some of them, especially those criticizing the service, which in my case was impeccable.

Also, the noisy bar IS NOT part of the restaurant, it is completely independent and run by the hotel. I asked them.

[Sneakeater]

It's great that you liked Atelier. (It's a relief to hear someone else not trashing it -- especially someone so famously knowledgeable.)

I think it was always clear to most people around here that the bar -- which has been there for years, as long as the hotel has been there -- is independent of Atelier. The problem (aside from the fact that it causes Atelier to charge exhoribant prices for cocktails) is that, even though it's independent, it definitely affects your experience at Atelier. Some people like the bar's raucousness as part of the Atelier experience, some people don't -- but you can't ignore it.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[BryanZ]

Great pictures, Alexandra.

[Nathan]

I think everyone understands the bar is separate...but if you have to wait (luckily I did not)...I could see it being rather annoying.

It was clear to me that one's experience is going to be much better seated at the bar than at a table....but then that's true in the vast majority of restaurants; however, I think this is especially true of L'Atelier.

I loved my meal there...in terms of flavor. My problem was with the value point. It is at the same cost level (disregarding the phantom "club menu") as virtually every four star restaurant in NY. However, the food -- though great -- is not quite at the JG or Per Se level.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Nathan (log)

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Mr. Fabulous just informed me that we'll be dining there on my birthday. (For our September anniversary, we opted for Yanks/Sox tickets, versus the soft opening.) anyway, I'm SO excited.

Yippee skippee,

Fabby