FoH Staff That Judge the BoH

[freshherbs]

i would like to add that i am extremely rich and only wear the nicest, most expensive clothes. when i go to restaurants the servers still look down their noses at me. but that is fine, because i don't like to mingle with the help anway

[SeanDirty]

You know you are all right, and i respect everyones opinions, thank you all for the feedback. It was probably wrong for me to "list" restaurants, but you know, each experience is different for everyone, you could catch a server or a host, on a bad day, many different outcomes can come from the same restaurant.

Perhaps i wrote this posting with much haste, and i apologize, i will be more "netural" with my comments next time. I am more of a produce person, and less of a complainer

[rich]

Okay, now that it's settled, let's get back to this cape thing...

[Sneakeater]

OK come on. No one could ever say you're not rich enough, with or without a cape.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Megan Blocker]

It's even worse when a restaurant looks down on you DESPITE your attire.  I went to Danube for my last birthday with my boyfriend.  We're both young and perhaps didn't look as monied as some of the other patrons there, but I wore a nice dress and expensive shoes, my boyfriend nice pants with an expensive dress shirt and nice shoes.  Despite ordering the tasting menu w/wine pairings and spending over $400, our waiter was incredibly snooty and sarcastic throughout dinner.  Luckily, after a few glasses of wine, we were able to ignore the attitude and have a good time, but the experience did leave me w/a sour taste in my mouth.

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But that could just be the waiter, and not because you looked a certain way.

I used to think staff were rude or nasty to me because I am young and therefore look like I'm not going to spend. I used to be really touchy about it. Then I started paying attention when shopping and eating out with my mom, who is older, successful, and looks it, and realized that it has nothing to do with it. Some people are just obnoxious.

That said: I have no problem with a restaurant having a (spoken or unspoken) dress code. I like dressing up to go out. I also like living in a city where the vast majority of restaurants will consider you dressed up in nice jeans, heels, and a nice top. That said, I certainly don't mind wearing a skirt or dress when appropriate, and almost always err on the side of dressier when going to a fancier place for the first time.

[Noodlebot]

"But that could just be the waiter, and not because you looked a certain way.

I used to think staff were rude or nasty to me because I am young and therefore look like I'm not going to spend. I used to be really touchy about it. Then I started paying attention when shopping and eating out with my mom, who is older, successful, and looks it, and realized that it has nothing to do with it. Some people are just obnoxious."

He definitely was rude in general, but the fact that he warmed up slightly after we ordered what we did led me to believe his initial rudeness was based on assumptions he'd made about us.

[freshherbs]

this goes both ways, by the way.

you ever show up to some Lower East Side hipster hangout in a suit? try it sometimes, it's fun! same as above, the only difference is they looked down their pierced noses at you

[Noodlebot]

Other difference being that you pay a lot less to be treated poorly.

[H. du Bois]

Shoulda worn that cape to Gallaghers.

[slkinsey]

To put on my moderator's hat for a second: we're not going to be making a list of NYC restaurants on this subject.

So, since this doesn't appear to be a terribly NYC-centric subject, I'm moving it to the General food topics forum.

Carry on!

[rich]

Shoulda worn that cape to Gallaghers.

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[JohnL]

To put on my moderator's hat for a second: we're not going to be making a list of NYC restaurants on this subject.

So, since this doesn't appear to be a terribly NYC-centric subject, I'm moving it to the General food topics forum.

Carry on!

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Good point.

It seems that dining in general, is much less formal

and regimented than it used to be.

thus--diners should be less likely to find themselves intimidated.

even wine service seems to be friendlier.

I wonder if the trend is not limited to the major metros on each coast

and just to the US.

[Carolyn Tillie]

You know, this cape thing is freaky...

When I worked the Renaissance Faires a dozen+ years ago, I had a cape made from the thickest, most luxurious black wool I could find. Complete with hood, it is lined in a satin that is dark, dark midnight blue.

Now, all these years later, it is the best thing for me to wear over an evening dress or gown when going to a hoity-toity dinner (who wants to wear a frigg'n London Fog raincoat over a couture gown anyway?).

I seem to always get the BEST attention; doors opening, "can we help you with your cape?", admiring looks...

Get a cape. Trust me.

[Pan]

This may initially seem off-topic, but it really isn't.

It really pisses me off that people wear jeans and sneakers to (non-pop) concerts and theatrical performances.  I think it's disrespectful to the performers.[...]

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As a classical performer, I have to tell you I strongly disagree. I want people to come to my performances, and I'm happy they're there, regardless of what they're wearing. Furthermore, when I'm not performing at a concert, I dress informally, myself. I'll bet if you ask other classical performers whether they feel disrespected because someone came to hear them while wearing jeans, you'll get a lot of laughs from them.

[MissAmy]

I'm getting a cape.

[dvs]

I'm getting a cape.

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werd. there was a great fc thread about wearing capes... but thats WAY off topic

[Squirrelly Cakes]

Good point.

It seems that dining in general, is much less formal

and regimented than it used to be.

thus--diners should be less likely to find themselves intimidated.

even wine service seems to be friendlier.

I wonder if the trend is not limited to the major metros on each coast

and just to the US.

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Good heavens, I hope this is just a New York "thang"!

Good to hear that the wine servers and the general help and perhaps even the restaurant owners are making "the supreme effort" in trying to make dining experiences at their establishments, less intimidating.

Otherwise, considering that they are operating in a hospitality and service industry one would have to wonder why anyone would want to "fork out" the big bucks to support their enterprise and yet be treated like the scum of the earth.

Perhaps there should be a list stating the appropriate value of clothing items worn by the customers - designer names whenever possible.

"No Rolex, Need Not Apply For a Table."

Perhaps references that can vouch for the quality of the customer palette.

A list of assets and holdings.

Verification of educational degrees.

And a cape of course which actually would be a great idea for many of the female customers to wear since they seem to wear very little - albeit designer-wear or not.

Obviously manners, the ability to be a non-rowdy patron or to utter a sentence - no a phrase without the use of expletives are deemed to be non-important qualities in a clientelle or staff. The customer's ability to be pretentious and condescending in manner, will compliment the attitude of the owner and staff.

Where have I been? I thought when you paid for a service you could expect to be treated with basic civility, respect and good manners. I thought you could expect a decent meal and good service. And in turn you would pay your bill, leave your tip and everyone would be rewarded for playing their part.

But it is educational. It has taken me all of these years to discover, I had better wear a pair of $800 shoes if I want to insure that when I dine out in a city like New York, my asparagus will receive the attention it deserves in the steamer.

Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

[Alchemist]

It's a fact that FoH staff are going to judge you the second you walk into every establishment. You shoes, hair cut, watch, cloths, and how you hold yourself. The judgement will change throughout the night. Your speech, how articulate you are, how sophistacated your ordering is, a guy who orders a Negroni will be seen one way, and a guy who orders an apple martini will be seen another.

Maybe this is wrong. Maybe we will all be going to hell for the hundreds of thousands of snap judgements.

[McDuff]

I've been reading Gael Greene's book Insatiable, a great read by the way, and she describes being seated in the outback at a NY watering hole, the name of which is part of a frog's anatomy, which is where I was seated the only time I ever ate there in the early 70's. The waiter couldn't have been bothered with us two rubes. I got a huge kick out of stiffing him, and shrugging and saying, "quelle fromage," on the way out.

[Luckylies]

You know, this cape thing is freaky...

When I worked the Renaissance Faires a dozen+ years ago, I had a cape made from the thickest, most luxurious black wool I could find. Complete with hood, it is lined in a satin that is dark, dark midnight blue.

Now, all these years later, it is the best thing for me to wear over an evening dress or gown when going to a hoity-toity dinner (who wants to wear a frigg'n London Fog raincoat over a couture gown anyway?).

I seem to always get the BEST attention; doors opening, "can we help you with your cape?", admiring looks...

Get a cape. Trust me.

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I've got one, my dad brought it back from Spain for me and I laughed thinking "yeah, like I'm gonna wear a cape"

Winter fancy dinners over a dress. good to go.

[chow guy]

This thread reminds me of a very snooty place I worked at, in NYC back in the 70's. One night the place was closed to the general public, for an opening night party for a David Mamet play. The very uppity doorman stopped a couple at the door and wouldn't let them in. (they were dressed in faded jeans and leather jackets). The doorman gave them the ole head to toe and with arched eyebrow told them the place was closed for a private party. The man responded with," I know I'm David Mamet". The doorman didn't miss a beat and shot back with, "Yeah, and I'm Queen Elizabeth" We found out later, it was indeed Mr Mamet that was turned away. We also discovered the doorman was indeed royalty, but not a Windsor.

[Simon_S]

As a classical performer...

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A flautist by any chance, Pan?

Getting back on topic, didn't I read somewhere here the notion that dining at formal French restaurants is like a dance, and if things are to run smoothly, both sides should be aware of their role? It seems to me that attire is, and should be, part of that dance.

As an aside, I recently ate at a reasonably upmarket Thai restaurant that happens to be beside a major concert venue in Dublin. On this particular evening, Metallica were playing, I had tickets, and I had stopped off at the restaurant for a decent bite to eat rather than dealing with the "food" at the venue. At one point during the meal a chap wandered in, shirtless, open can of beer in hand, and asked to see the menu. Despite the obvious consternation of the wait staff, he was given a menu which he perused thoroughly before handing it back and leaving. The relief amongst the wait-staff was palpable. I was kind of hoping he'd ask for a table, just to see what they'd do.

I'm not involved in the restaurant industry, but I judge people every day by their appearance, as do most people on the planet. It's only human, and most FOH staff are human too. Most of them.

Si

[Pan]

As a classical performer...

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A flautist by any chance, Pan?

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Yes, Sir!

Getting back on topic, didn't I read somewhere here the notion that dining at formal French restaurants is like a dance, and if things are to run smoothly, both sides should be aware of their role? It seems to me that attire is, and should be, part of that dance.[...]

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I agree. I may not often dress up to go to a concert (always to play one, unless it's jazz in a club), but I do wear a suit and tie when going to a truly formal restaurant. Here in New York, it's fine to go to a lot of upscale restaurants wearing hiking boots, khakis, and a presentable button-down shirt, but you will seldom be overdressed if you wear formal clothing to such a restaurant. It does pay to have an idea of what vibe the restaurant is looking for, as others mentioned upthread.

[lancastermike]

Sorry to intrude in the NYC topic, but my wife and I vacation on the Outer banks of North Carolina. There is a place ther called Elizabeth's cafe. It is amongst the highest rated place in this area and has received many awards for food and wine.

We went there once. The single most pretentious bunch of people I have ever see. I know just a little bit about food, wine, spirits and service. An attempt to engage the staff and the owner in the selections was went with sheer disdain. I was dressed like everyone else in the place, but I drove a Chevy and my wife does not wear flashy bling. But we clearly were not like alot of the other customers. My wife and I have a name for the kind of customere this place was looking for. RWF. That stands for rich white folks.

We are actually all three of those things but don't act like it.

Guess what owners. All us customers ought be treated with respect. If you only want a certain type of customer post it on the door. I know plenty of pretentious folks who will spend big money to be condesended by the staff and enjoy that as part of the experience. Not me. I go out to enjopy myself not to be treated like crap by some establishment that does not think I fit in

[rich]

I'm getting a cape.

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Amy, make sure it's red with an "S" in the middle. It will open doors for you that you couldn't imagine.

PS - thanks for having my name in your tag line.

Edited August 3, 2006 by rich (log)