The Restaurant Menu Card

[Wimpy]

I've always wanted to bring home with me the menu of the restaurant at which I've had a particularly memorable meal. However, I'm apprehensive about how such a request would be received.

Stealing the menu, apart from moral implications (I was raised Catholic and thus have all kinds of guilt-ridden safety features which are hard to overcome on impulse) is impractical as menus in France are often huge things bound sometimes in leather or are made of hard to fold rag paper.

Does anyone have any experience in this area? I would think a nice request to buy or keep the menu is flattering, but you never know with the temperamental Gaul. If I do this at a Michelin restaurant, can I forget any chance of getting a reservation in future?

Pls. advise.....

[jordyn]

Unfortunately, I was very unassertive in France, and did not bring back any menus, but I think it would be possible in many places just by asking (others with more French dining experience will be able to provide more conclusive answers).

The only three star that I have eaten at, Michel Bras, has the menu printed on pieces of paper that would be easy to provide to guests upon request. I would be shocked if they denied or looked unfavorably upon such a request.

As an alternative, a digital camera with the ability to take close-up pictures would at least allow you to take home a "copy" of the menu.

[tony h]

Just ask - most top end places will give you a copy or run off a copy depending on how they are produced. If expensively printed they may be more reluctant but I've never had a problem.

[Michael Laiskonis]

I always ask for a copy of the menu...

On my last visit to Paris, only Arpege offered me the full current menu (I have menus from all four meals there). Passiflore refused, saying that "it was complicated"?! Gagnaire never seems to part with the current à la carte menus, but will let you have the day's/month's tasting menu should you order it. Ditto with Petrossian- last season's menus. Old menus can be fun, but not all that relevant to my meals at Gagnaire and Petrossian.

I like to have menus not only as a little souvenir, but as I don't always like to scribble notes during a meal, I find the menu a good reference to aid my memory.

I'm trying to think of any instance of denied menus here in the US, but I can't recall of any from my experience.

Jordyn- I can't imagine taking snapshots in the dining room... how is that received by the staff?!

[lizziee]

Like mlpc, I also always ask for a menu and almost all restaurants are not only happy to oblige, but will also have the chef sign it. Gagnaire does not like to give a copy of their entire current menu as they only print enough for current use. They will, as mlpc noted, give you the insert of the tasting menu. Other than that, I have menus from every 2 and 3 star restaurant we have eaten at.

[cabrales]

I always ask for menus, and receive them, in France. Apart Tour d'Argent in Paris, all restaurants did not resist after a second request (when necessary). Most were happy to provide the menu upon an initial gentle request. Tour d'Argent sells old menus in the store across the street from the restaurant. It's hard to tell whether every diner would be accorded similar treatment. Note I tend to receive complimentary dishes, etc. at restaurants frequented for the first time, and speak French. I'm not suggesting those factors matter, but merely providing background. Also note I tip generously, even given the general inclusion of service in listed prices.

At Taillevent, I received an old menu. Gagnaire personnel initially only provided the menu degustation menu, but, upon a follow-up request, provided the a la carte menu. I even have a copy of the spiral-bound Jardin des Sens menu (unclear whether staying as a hotel guest helped). Ledoyen personnel were a bit reluctant, and initially gave me an old menu without alerting me to that fact. I noticed the difference, and indicated it would mean a great deal to me to receive the menu I experienced. With some reluctance, the restaurant handed the menu over.

Some places have a tendency to give indicative menus, like Loiseau, that are not even old menus. Still, these are better than having no menu at all. One of the nicest gestures by restaurants is when they given you not only the regular menu when requested, but also understand your desire to have that regular menu suggests you would appreciate a typed up list (in addition) of the dishes and wines taken in. Troisgros provided this on my first visit to the restaurant. A request for the regular menu yielded three menus --- the regular menu, the truffle tasting menu's contents and a cardboard smaller menu with an insert regarding my specific menu that evening. The restaurant/hotel at Troisgros is very well-run. When I visited the next time, sitting on my bed was a welcome card (there is a welcome card even with the first stay) indicating my return was welcome.

I do not believe that asking for a menu, even if the request were for some reason to be denied, would affect reservation prospects. I began menu collecting about 2 years ago. Menus can be truly beautiful, apart from being souvenirs with respect to dishes.

[=Mark]

I've been collecting menus for years, and have hundreds of menus. I've even managed to post a number of them online.

I've found in general the more expensive, better establishments are more than happy to accomodate. The Inn At Little Washington has prepared folders that contain that evenings meal menus plus brochures about the Inn and restaurant.

After all, if you are going to drop a ton of money on a special meal how are they going to begrudge you a menu? The places that are most reluctant to part with menus are usually either franchised chain places (Who cares?) or small private or family run places that have yet to bring in profits enough to allow them to give away menus. These places often have cheap take-out menus that can suffice.

[jordyn]

Jordyn- I can't imagine taking snapshots in the dining room... how is that received by the staff?!

This has been discussed previously on egullet. I'd say it's situational--in some places it might be horribly conspicuous. In others, there may be others taking pictures (probably of each other) so you won't draw particular attention to yourself by snapping a picture or two.

Some digital cameras are really tiny, though. You could probably use some palm-sized cameras to take pictures of the menu without anyone noticing.

[cabrales]

I have some experience taking pictures in restaurants in France. I have a small camera which fits into my clutch handbag. It is not a digital (which would be better, as one can adjust for lighting, etc.). I load it up with 400 speed or greater film (beware of very high speeds, as they can be affected by airport scanners). It does not make much noise. When the amuse arrives, I usually ask the person bringing it (who is unlikely to be the maitre d', but some chef de rang or commis) whether it would be appropriate to take pictures without flash. Usually, the response is in the affirmative. I very quickly disable the flash, and snap one or two shots of the dish. This is repeated for every dish (without the request, of course). At some point, snap quickly the room. Note that, for three-stars outside of Paris, there is usually a hotel. One can snap a number of pictures not only of the restaurant, but also of the grounds, the hotel common areas, the exterior of the restaurant, rooms, etc.

Photography is a delicate issue, and I presume restaurants would prefer not to have it happen.

[jordyn]

Photography is a delicate issue, and I presume restaurants would prefer not to have it happen.

Why?

[cabrales]

jordyn -- I imagine it would be a delicate issue as it might distract other customers. That being said, my photography is about as unobstructive as it could get. I have albums full of wonderful photos as a result. On balance, for me, whether to photograph is not at all a close call. I merely note it is an activity that is not helpful to other diners, even in the absence of the use of flash, etc.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I have never been turned down when I've requested a copy of the menu in France, with the single exception of La Regalade. Others, as mentioned before, usually arrive back at our table signed by the chef.

Parenthetically, in the US, I always call ahead and have a copy of the menu faxed to us before visiting a restaurant. I've never tried to get one faxed to a hotel in France.

Re photography in a dining room, we have never done it, and find it objectionable when obvious. But as Cabrales noted, and as we taught our son, you can do almost anything in a good dining room as long as you are totally unobtrusive.

[pirate]

As Audrey Hepburn said to Fred Astaire in "Funny Face" while sweeping down a staircase in the Louvre "Take the picture! Take the picture!"

[Bouland]

I've been taking pictures of food in restaurants in France for a number of years. Now that I'm using a digital camera, a large one at that, and there's no cost for film and processing, I take a number of pictures of each dish. Although sometimes there's a few stares, often it starts a conversation with diners at other tables. No waiter has ever stopped me from taking pictures although often they chuckle at me. Also, since my camera is already out, I can usually take pictures of others in the restaurant without much problem. I set the camera at a high sensitivity level so I don't need to use a flash when snapping people.

[Gary Marshall]

i always ask and have never been refused, however they do often give old menus out which does slightly rankle as i want to be able to remember the dishes i ate.

i read cabrales comments re tour d'argent selling menus with interest, i thought it was about the worst i'd seen in a two star, covered in felt pen additions and deletions and was of little interest . At guy savoy they gave the full menu and a relais chateaux guide book in a guy savoy carrier bag so i expect they're well used to being asked!

ramsay in the uk seemed reluctant to part with the full a la carte but i did eventually recieve one.

i often take photo's too and have never had any complaints, although abroad i think they put it down to eccentric englishmen!

[dallardice]

I was at Paul Bocuse last year when the man himself was hosting a end-of-season party for the local football team: he was happy to sign a current menu for us.

[cabrales]

At guy savoy they gave the full menu and a relais chateaux guide book in a guy savoy carrier bag so i expect they're well used to being asked!

Gary -- At least you were not subjected to a "gratuit" video, relating to how Guy Savoy cultivates relationships with his producers, how close he is to "terroir" and how his menu changes with the seasons.

[Bux]

The difference in reaction is really quite amazing. What I don't get is how often they don't get it--that is, don't get the reason I'm asking for a menu. All too often they want to give me the fancy cover with an old menu that does't represent the current offering or what I ate. Some restaurants seem to view the request as a thing only a rank amateur tourist would do while others regard it as a sincere form of flattery.

On the whole we graciously take what they offer and don't make a fuss. At times we've asked if we could just have the current insert. Some restaurants have run off a laser print of our dishes. When we're staying at a nice country inn, we'll usually ask for the menu the next morning when we check out.

Normally we've only asked for a menu at a really top restaurant, but lately we've begun asking for menus at typical restaurants that serve traditional food. The latter has mostly been in Spain as the food is less familiar to me and I can learn quite a bit for later trips. I've been grateful to get bilingual Catalan/Spanish menus in Catalunya. Even seafood restaurants in Catalunya have such a wide selection that it can be intimidating to peruse an unfamiliar menu in real time.

[Bux]

Although Relais et Chateaux sells their guides, most R&C inns and Relais Gourmand restaurants will give you a free copy if you ask for it, as should a travel agent with whom you do business.

A lot of restaurants will have interesting guides to hand out. Some more interesting that others, but I pick up a random selection. Most of these are, to an extent, self serving guides dedicated to advertising or to the promotion of a professional organization or a regional one or to a commercial sponsor. I'd never hold it against any restaurant that didn't appear in any of these guides, but inclusion usually represents some sort of acknowledgement.

[ballast_regime]

perhaps one of the most memorable aesthetic choices i've seen in a restaurant, at least as far as adding a more approachable or warm or personalized component goes, was at charlie trotter's, where every bathroom has signed copies of menus, usu. from chef trotter's own past dining experiences (my brother and i got up to go to the bathroom a number of times, only to come back, wide-eyed, comparing notes on what we had just seen; i mean, i'm only 24, and have never had the pleasure of dining at, say, girardet's place, but to see an original menu of his (what's cool about his menus was, there's this alphabet and his initials are in bold print, like: a b c d e f g h i j, and so on) is just unspeakably rad!).

ever since, like many have already said, i do not feel in the slightest bit intimidated to ask for a copy of the menu. reactions vary, from the cool "yes, sir" i received at alain ducasse at the essex house to the bewildered "are you sure you're not a food writer?"-look of my waiter at papillon. of course, i also photograph/film everything i eat, which usu. doesn't bother anyone.

[cabrales]

at charlie trotter's, where every bathroom has signed copies of menus, usu. from chef trotter's own past dining experiences

Basildog has certain old menus (mostly from his restaurant, I believe) on the walls of the washroom of his restaurant. There are also certain letters and other memory-provoking momentos. The washroom also contains a guest comment book and a miniature porcelain decoration with Snoopy. . The area leading up to the washroom has photos of clients, of Basildog and his wife, etc.

R Feenie at Lumiere (Vancouver, Canada) has the same thing -- framed menus in washrooms and in the corridor leading to the washrooms. Trotter wrote the forward to Feenie's book.

[Wimpy]

Hmmm. Seems it's pretty much a matter of chance whether a restaurant and staff is accommodating enough to give you a menu or not. It is missing the point to be give the customer a menu from seasons past!

I must admit to having "stolen" a menu once- though. It was at Le Prieure (at that time a one macaroon Michelin) in Villeneuve les Avignon (just 15 min. from Avignon in the Provence). We actually ordered room service that evening and staff brought us a menu from the restaurant from which to order. (It was the first time in my experience that they brought the food up to the room by the course!). Of course I tipped rather well (to compensate for my guilt of slipping menu in suitcase).

Point is, I still pull out the menu on occasion and go through it page by page. Wonderful memories of a beautiful vacation with wife are thus recalled, as well as the recollection of an opulent meal (best thing was their dessert cart- never saw one that huge).

I can only hope my trip to France this time around will have me dining at establishments with understanding staff! Have so far reserved lunch at Au Crocodile... This whole question may be moot however, as I have planned a vacation smack in the middle of August when most restaurants are closed!

As for taking pictures, I vividly recall making full video recordings of my lunch at Le Cote St. Jacques in Joigny back in 1999 (at least digicams nowadays are quite small and unobtrusive). When I review the movie now, I cringe at how gauche I was, filming everything that was served to me like some hick from the boonies! However, the video of the food still evokes Pavlovian reactions and so was glad that I was brazen enough to film! I'll try to be more subtle this time around.

[cabrales]

Sometimes, it is necessary to ask a second time after an initial "reluctant" response. Consider indicating you would appreciate the menu a great deal, and hope an exception could be made. Consider requesting a copy of both the regular menu and, if separate, the tasting menu to the extent the tasting menu is ordered.

On menus that require payment, Guerard's Pres d'Eugenie charges for menus. I received a menu free. However, there was a matching menu with a distinguished looking man instead of a woman (the gifted one) on the cover, and with a different colored broad ribbon (red or blue) encircling the fold of the menu. I purchased the additional menu.

[magnolia]

I have never been turned down when I've requested a copy of the menu in France, with the single exception of La Regalade. Others, as mentioned before, usually arrive back at our table signed by the chef.

Parenthetically, in the US, I always call ahead and have a copy of the menu faxed to us before visiting a restaurant.  I've never tried to get one faxed to a hotel in France.

Re photography in a dining room, we have never done it, and find it objectionable when obvious.  But as Cabrales noted, and as we taught our son, you can do almost anything in a good dining room as long as you are totally unobtrusive.

That's odd, I have one from my first meal at La Regalade - just an eight-10 sheet xerox that normally goes in a binding - plus the small daily menu from our particular visit. I can't imagine why Regalade wouldn't have given you one, its "production values" are nothing extraordinary (read: too expensive to give away). Were they were totally packed and perhaps literally couldn't spare one?

Having one faxed is a good option, if you're at all timid about asking, all you have to say is that you/your dining companions have dietary/health issues and want to have a look beforehand. It's difficult for a restaurant to argue with this.

As for photography, I guess it would be a bit odd/rude to take photos that included other diners, but photos of your own meal would seem to be a right/privilege as a paying customer ! As a corollary, in most of the places we're discussing herewith - special destination restaurants, frequented by tourists, etc...I can't recall the last time I was in such a restaurant where *someone* (sometimes even me, if I remember to bring a camera!) didn't ask the waiter to take a photo of their party - these places are well-accustomed to it. Then again, I subscribe to the 'customer is (almost) always right' philosophy of service, so maybe I'm more oblivious to behaviour that might raise an extra-pretentious eyebrow.

[cabrales]

For me, a faxed list of menu contents is not a substitute for the actual menu. There are some menus that have strong visual appeal, wholly apart from the wonderful dishes listed in them. For example, one of Grand Vefour's menus is a dark purple color with a character design on it. It is quite beautiful.