water cutting Jet

[dejaq]

for intermediate or semi-industrial, I think it would be a must have, I heard about these in school twenty 26 years ago, for making an incision down the center of a pullman loaf that received a butter spray shot a la Arnold's bread, has anyone had any experience with using one?

water jet

Michael

[chiantiglace]

These things are used to cut through metal. Do you think that this would be just a little excessive in the food industry. I could just see it tearing something limb from limb.

There are some incredible slicers out there that are just as efficient as a water jet would be. Besides, it's hard to remove liquids from food products as opposed to metal. I can't really think of a product that a water jet would be better than using a blade. I guess chocolate is hard, but who wants water on their chocolate.

[dejaq]

These things are used to cut through metal.  Do you think that this would be just a little excessive in the food industry.  I could just see it tearing something limb from limb.

There are some incredible slicers out there that are just as efficient as a water jet would be.  Besides, it's hard to remove liquids from food products as opposed to metal.  I can't really think of a product that a water jet would be better than using a blade.  I guess chocolate is hard, but who wants water on their chocolate.

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Yes Anthony,

why perhaps a vegamatic may work also! it slices, why it even dices! I'll call that old clown from Ronco and see if I can find one on EBAY...

indeed a blade would be a lot cheaper, more avail,and a lot less expensive to maintain but nearly impossible to slice and dice, those unique angulated cuts on for example, those hex, and coma shapes, check out their web site...this device is on my wish list once I open my own 2 mill venue in approx. 3.5-5 years, it's beyond way cool, it's rad...and who knows by then that Runco will have a nifty little laser attachment, and any water propagation(not that a micro sized jet is any prob. right now circa 2006,nor was it a prob back in the 80's) will be a remote thing of the past...

M

[Melanger]

Christmas is coming soon, right?!?!

[chiantiglace]

give me some examples of what you would use it for. Especially to get your moneys worth.

Toys are fun, no lie.

[dejaq]

As I mentioned this application is not a compartmentalized modular approach, it's one level up from this: I developed these in arcylic with reuseable poly liners way back in 89' when I had a Pilot project called "PastryKrafters", I sold everything to the late Dominic, of "Palet du Chocolat', bless his creative heart, he is very much remembered with high esteem; I am not saying I invented the wheel, I am just saying we were playing around with all kinds of stuff including food grade silicon molding solutions including those plastic rings that at the time were only available in metal (widely available). The jet is another solution, for perhaps a wholesaler, a large Casino blowing it out the door. For fine Dining or a rinky dink hole in the wall bakery-furget it, it's like if you have to ask how expensive it is, you don't belong in the store...

Michael

EOF end of file

[cbarre02]

Though you say its tabu... how much is it? The most simple modle

[nathanm]

I have used a waterjet extensively in machine shop applications. An industrial water jet is not suitable for kitchen scale food processing. The water is pumped up to 55,000 pounds per square inch and shoots out the nozzle at mach 3.

It will cut many materials with water alone, or for tougher materials garnet grit is blown into the jet and it hits the material to be cut at high speed. You can cut glass, steel, titanium, granite, wood - almost anything.

An interesting application is that disposible paper diapers are cut with a waterjet. The reason is to avoid having shards from a metal blade get into the diaper. The diapers are shot past the waterjet so fast that they do not absorb water or get wet!

Some waterjets are used in industrial food processes, but it would have to be a very unusal process to make a waterjet worthwhile.

So you could cut food with them, but it really would not make sense. You need to cut over a tank of water, since that is what stops the jet - in a kitchen you could cut through the counters at the same time as the food!

Indeed my granite counters were cut with a waterjet.

Computer controlled water jet machines are $100K to $250K or even more.

[artisanbaker]

torreblanca has one

[andrewB]

give me some examples of what you would use it for.  Especially to get your moneys worth.

Toys are fun, no lie.

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as per the website, it looks as if this machine IS used in food grade applications. the possibility of high volume output would be tremendous. think petit four in a large high end hotel. they would get their moneys worth. look at all the other stupid cr*p only large hotels and the CIA can afford...

[dejaq]

True Dat...

M

[dejaq]

I never met an F&B director with an IQ better than 120, it's just like this and just like DAT!

Edited May 17, 2006 by dejaq (log)

[andrewB]

I never met an F&B director with an IQ better than 120, it's just like this and just like DAT!

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i think even 120 is a rarity on that end of the food chain. and the corporate brainwashing doesn't help the matter either...

[turkeybone]

I think the CIA would riot if they blew money on a water cutter -- the 10 million dollar BURSARS OFFICE was bad enough (it's like if the IRS made a castle of solid gold).

[andrewB]

I think the CIA would riot if they blew money on a water cutter -- the 10 million dollar BURSARS OFFICE was bad enough (it's like if the IRS made a castle of solid gold).

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Greystone probably has one down in the dungeon somewhere!!

[evilhomer]

for 1/10 the price get yourself a cnc machine (they're going reasonably on ebay now), learn some gcode and making endlessly complicated badass molds. with some food grade bits things could get even more interesting. I wonder what the proper cutting speed and intensity for a genoise would be?

[spinach]

It has been stated ...

But these machines do not just use water to cut metals. It's water mixed with a sand type aggregate. Whatver it is, it is deffinetely not safe for food.

And from from my experience of seeing this type of machine up close I am pretty sure the food would be destroyed.

If you looking into something that would make holes in hard foods you may want to think of hydraulic presses with cutting attachments.

[chiantiglace]

I'm sorry but every time I browse through this topic I can't stop thinking about the apple from "Honey I Shrunk The Kids" exploding. I could someone trying to cut one with the water jet and all the sudden pieces start flying everywhere inside.

And if all you are using the water jet for is molds, you better pick up some contract deals with everyone you can find on making them molds too, because it would never pay itself off just for a special mold once a month. Also, thats just reason to spend more money on material to cut. What if suddenly you didn't like the initial design at all, are you just going to toss the material? I don't think many people in this industry have that much money just to throw out the window on a random polygon individual pastry.

[dejaq]

Anthony, listen,

it's the about the IDEA that intrigues us, like the guy I ran into a number of years ago that worked on a facet of a part to the engine of the so called top secret "Aurora Project", sometimes the idea is bigger than the thing itself, Mach 13 is it possible, yes, do most people understand it, no, do we have technology that makes the shuttle look archaic, yes, do most people know it, no, does the stealth bomber's silent drive run on Alien hybrid technology that no one else knows about, yes, do the schematics that read something else about it convince most, NO

take it at face value, the jet is way cool!

look at the word DejaQ- break it down, as in "I feel that I have been here before", the Q,

now are you begining to understand...

[Art]

There was an episode on the food network (Unwrapped?) where they showed a water jet being used to cut petit fours. A large sheet cake would go in and the machine would use the water jet to slice it and dice it until there were literally hundreds of little cakes. They used it because it would make a nice clean cut and would not tear the cake apart as a blade might do.

I would imagine that something that can make a nice clean cut through steel would also stand a good chance of being able to do it for cake as well. I thought it was a very creative idea.

-Art

[FistFullaRoux]

One application of the water jet could be for sugar or chocolate showpieces. Take a 4x4 foot sugar "plank", and cut the needed parts from a blueprint. It would turn out consistent results without all of the molding headaches. One thing to remember with these, as I recall from watching American Chopper, is that the cuts aren't truly 90 degrees. Since the water fans ever so slightly as it comes out of the nozzle, it's something like 88 or 89 degrees, and the edges need to be trued up for something that will be used on the perpendicular. Like a shark's fin, for instance.

I've also seen air jets used on Unwrapped and similar shows. These would only really work with thin, sticky materials I think. IIRC, one application was to cut the frosting on a line of small cakes. The frosting was just extruded over a line of them, and an air jet pulsed between the cakes to cut the frosting before packaging.

[FistFullaRoux]

And speaking of power tools, I'm kind of surprised I don't see routers and Dremels used much in sugar or chocolate work. There's a million kinds of bits to do crazy things to the edges, then just run a torch over the edges to make them nice and shiny again. And if you have a template, instead of molding, you can use router bits to do the actual cutting of a shape. The speed of the bit and the hardness of the material certainly come into play, as the bits do develop some heat. Think of all of the sugar competitions where a completed item falls on the way to the table. It wouldn't have happened if mortis and tenon, half lap, and dovetail joints were used. Butt joints on a weird angle are never strong.

I mean, they already use powerpainters and heat guns.

Sorry, it's the ex-guitarmaker/cabinet freak/speakerbox builder woodworker geek coming out in me. I think a thickness sander would be useful in show pieces as well. A drill press and a table saw may be pushing it, I am actually thinking of a way to use scroll saws, a jointer can help laminate two narrow planks into one big plank by creating perfectly straight and flush lines, but I can certainly see uses for the Dremel and router. And maybe a big vertical disc sander.

Hm. I could make a chocolate armoir, or a sugar dinette set ... OK, maybe just an end table. I may have to experiment with some of those techniques to see how they would work.

[Sugarella]

..... does the stealth bomber's silent drive run on Alien hybrid technology that no one else knows about, yes, ......

now are you begining to understand...

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Oh, ok.... now I understand you!!

(not saying I agree, just saying you make sense now. )

A drill press and a table saw may be pushing it, I am actually thinking of a way to use scroll saws, a jointer can help laminate two narrow planks into one big plank by creating perfectly straight and flush lines, but I can certainly see uses for the Dremel and router. And maybe a big vertical disc sander.

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Hehheeheh.... I use my drill press, my dremel and my scroll saw, so there!

You've got me stumped with the disc sander tho....

[dejaq]

I like your responses, some of your approaches are "innovative", I was talking to one of my authoritative/Defense contractor/Business gurus genius types and I mentioned a Phased ultrasound high intensity particle beam type cutter system, same type of stuff that will take down a Patriot missile, or used in a modified form for riot control...the incident angle Tim stated would be to great for cutting food, similar to the Ultrasound waves that break up kidney stones in lithotripsy, a broader cut in segmented slices would be achieved. Tim went on to say that better than a water jet, the same type of (variable intensity) lasers used to cauterize skin tissue in the Medical profession would work quite nicely, and for just around 5… at that price point, even a smaller outfit could afford one. That’s weekend beer money, to our Hoteliers and friends up in Hyde Park.

Michael

Edited May 20, 2006 by dejaq (log)

[FistFullaRoux]

Hehheeheh.... I use my drill press, my dremel and my scroll saw, so there! 

You've got me stumped with the disc sander tho....

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Perfectly square edges of a molded sugar piece, of course...

Edited May 19, 2006 by FistFullaRoux (log)