Fancy Coffee Systems

[Jason Perlow]

As for the freshness of POD's....  some are fresher than others and there are even tricks like grinding and packing in a nitrogen enriched (thus oxygen deprived) atmosphere which may help ensure thatv the ground coffeee in the pod is as fresh as possible.

But there is a deterioration timeline for the most crucial and most subtle flavor components in coffee. It is a function of oxidation and the oxidation occurs even in a  vacuum sealed product. It can be dramatically slowed down but once that product is opened the time window for freshness is very short. 

That's one of the real benefits of POD's.  For folks who've been accustomed to getting canned and pre-ground coffee that goes stale very quickly after openign the can...  POD's represent a quantum leap in freshness. The convenience factor is also not be underestimated.

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This is correct. Which is why, if you go the Pod route, you want to buy them from a reputable small scale producer, like Podhead, or a wholesaler like CoffeeWhiz that moves a lot of volume and has good relationships with companies like Green Mountain and Baronet. PodHead and Green Mountain (as well as Baronet) both use the Nitrogen process you describe and I have had very good results with their pods. In any case you want to consume pods within 3 months of their manufacture date.

[Bond Girl]

Well, all you guys just talked me out of the Miele. Thereby, freeing up the necessary budget for 2 sub-zero under the counter fridge. The Capresso really looks nice next to my Bialetti stove top coffee pot and the Bodum santos. Now, if I only get around to making coffee....

[Marlene]

My equipment and methods will be messy by many folk's standards, not especially convenient and far from aesthetically pleasing to most eyes when parked on a  countertop.  Buit I enjoy every aspect of it - the process, the control, the actual 'doing" - it's about more than just the drink in the cup for me.

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I think this is where I come in. I do love my coffee, but I'm not so passionate about it that I want to spend a lot of time fussing with it. I want the time that I would have to fuss with a coffee set up to be used for tinkering with a new cooking or baking recipe. And I don't really drink espresso all that often.

I'm sold on the Miele for several reasons. I can make one cup at a time instead of a whole pot. I can make an espresso or cappacuino for friends and I don't have to spend a lot of time to learn how to do it. It gets another appliance off my counter and I can still use my favourite blend of beans. Oh and it looks pretty.

So contrary to Bond Girl, this topic talked me into the Miele.

[Rebecca263]

I tested a new Senseo recently. There will be some slight changes in the next season's machines, so they've sent them out for feedback. I liked the IDEA of the pod system, the idea of vacuum sealed product, the sprayer for the water, etc. The 'crema' on top was interesting, albeit not really crema. There was no sweet top to it at all, it was just a light, oily scum on the top of the cups. And, the final nail in the coffin: the pods that I had all tasted stale to me. Now, granted, I'm a retired coffee jockey, and was a coffee geek for years (trying to live that down! ) but the coffee pods really did taste old. Sorry, no blurb from me for your journal adverts!

Now, you CAN buy a plastic refillable pod, then grind and stuff with your own choice of beans, but then, after all that effort, you certainly don't need a pod machine. A moka pot would be a better cup, to me. For a regular cup of joe, I say buy a French press and have at it, though. A four minute brew in a French press is really decent coffee, and simple to deal with, too. With the long contact of bean and water, the extraction of coffee oils is very high (much higher than a cute Melitta drip), so if you start with excellent freshly roasted and home ground beans, you can't go wrong. AND, you can buy one of those stainless steel travel models, and take your press with you to the office, or the zoo, too! That's what I got for my sister, and she's thrilled with the coffee she can make for herself, even after a year. She still won't 'mess' with an ibrik , sheesh. I KEEP tellin' her!

[MGLloyd]

Marlene, does the Miele whole bean system actually make true drip coffee, or does it actually make an Americano: espresso diluted with water? Many people call an Americano coffee, although I tend to think of it as diluted espresso.

[MGLloyd]

BG, I am going to be very interested to hear your opinion of the Capresso.

[phaelon56]

... freeing up the necessary budget for 2 sub-zero under the counter fridge. 

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Wow. You weren't kidding when you called yourself a "princess"

I'd look into reliability factors and noise levels before I invested in any Sub-Zero - even the undercounter ones. A majority of the espresso bars and coffeehouses in the US that have undercounter refrigeration use True. It's about 35 - 40% cheaper than Sub-Zero and far more reliable. Most of their stuff is on casters but I think they make some built-ins as well.

[kbuzbee]

But there's an equally large contingent of us coffee aficionado's who really can tell the difference between fresh whole bean that was ground just before roasting and a POD that may be fresh by POD standards but just not fresh enough.

.... you mean just before "brewing", right??? ;-) (ducking)

Great write up, Owen.

And Rebecca! Awsome! A true coffee geek indeed. Sounds like my kitchen. Have you tried the Brikka?? I love that thing. Just can't get away from my LaPavoni long enough to really appreciate it.

Ken

Daybreak Coffee Company

[Jason Perlow]

I tested a new Senseo recently. There will be some slight changes in the next season's machines, so they've sent them out for feedback. I liked the IDEA of the pod system, the idea of vacuum sealed product, the sprayer for the water, etc. The 'crema' on top was interesting, albeit not really crema. There was no sweet top to it at all, it was just a light, oily scum on the top of the cups. And, the final nail in the coffin: the pods that I had all tasted stale to me. Now, granted, I'm a retired coffee jockey, and was a coffee geek for years (trying to live that down! ) but the coffee pods really did taste old. Sorry, no blurb from me for your journal adverts!

Now, you CAN buy a plastic refillable pod, then grind and stuff with your own choice of beans, but then, after all that effort, you certainly don't need a pod machine. A moka pot would be a better cup, to me. For a regular cup of joe, I say buy a French press and have at it, though. A four minute brew in a French press is really decent coffee, and simple to deal with, too. With the long contact of bean and water, the extraction of coffee oils is very high (much higher than a cute Melitta drip), so if you start with excellent freshly roasted and home ground beans, you can't go wrong. AND, you can buy one of those stainless steel travel models, and take your press with you to the office, or the zoo, too! That's what I got for my sister, and she's thrilled with the coffee she can make for herself, even after a year. She still won't 'mess' with an ibrik , sheesh. I KEEP tellin' her!

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Of the Pod systems the Senseo probably is the one that makes the worst coffee because of the fact that the Douwe/Egberts pod coffee marketed by Philips/Senseo is totally artificially-flavored garbage (and the fact they are not individually foil-wrapped and nitrogen sealed, causing it to be stale on arrival) would lead any coffee snob to believe that Pod-based coffee sucks.

Simply switching to a Podhead or CoffeeWhiz pod is going to improve that coffee tremendously.

[phaelon56]

Simply switching to a Podhead or CoffeeWhiz pod is going to improve that coffee tremendously.

Am I the only one who thinks that's a comically bad name for a coffee product? All I can think of when I see it is Cheese Whiz or "taking a wizz".

[kbuzbee]

Am I the only one who thinks that's a comically bad name for a coffee product? All I can think of when I see it is Cheese Whiz or "taking a wizz".

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You're right, too funny. Makes you wonder. Maybe going for the Mr. Wizard thing?? Dunno.

Ken

[Jason Perlow]

Simply switching to a Podhead or CoffeeWhiz pod is going to improve that coffee tremendously.

Am I the only one who thinks that's a comically bad name for a coffee product? All I can think of when I see it is Cheese Whiz or "taking a wizz".

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Well, they're not a product, they're a Pod reseller/distributor:

http://www.coffeewhiz.com

[andiesenji]

Well, all you guys just talked me out of the Miele. Thereby, freeing up the necessary budget for 2 sub-zero under the counter fridge.  The Capresso really looks nice next to my Bialetti stove top coffee pot and the Bodum santos.  Now, if I only get around to making coffee....

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Are you referring to the refrigerated drawers? They are fantastic. Several people I know have the Sub-Z - I also had them but had a little problem, not with the appliance itself but with the area in which they were placed and now they are in my garage awaiting some shifting of cabinets in the kitchen.

Another friend has the KitchenAid and is happy with them.

I have a lot of difficulty bending and stooping - totally impossible to squat or kneel because of my knees, so the undercounter fridge in the patio is coming out and I plan on putting in two of the U-line units, one with two fridge drawers and one with a freezer drawer and an icemaker.

Refrigerator drawers.

I like the clean lines and the price is fair. I had an old U-line icemaker that worked beautifully for 22 years through 3 moves so I feel the maker is reliable.

[kbuzbee]

Well, they're not a product, they're a Pod reseller/distributor:

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Not really the point. The company may be wonderful but the name was, perhaps, imprudently chosen.

Ken

[Bond Girl]

Owen and MG is really converting me. The best I can do for beans is a bag I got from Whole Food. I ground some up and put them in my Capresso, it made such a lovely cup of coffee that I dump the rest into a thermo cup and took it to work. The capresso is a winner!!!! I will blow the dust off my Bialetti tomorrow and make a comparison.

Owne, is the brand called True? I heard a lot about the unreliability of sub-zero too.

[MGLloyd]

Owen and MG is really converting me.

Owen and Michael: converting innocent coffee maidens since I don't know when.

[edsel]

I finally looked up the CVA615 on the Miele site to see what Ya-Roo was talking about. That is cool looking. Too bad the coffee from superautos sucks.

Mark Prince from Coffeegeek has an interesting write-up on a new superauto being introduced by Krups. Scroll down to Krazy about Krups. It sounds like a big improvement over the current offerings.

[andiesenji]

He said he had seen (and tasted) the Miele demonstrated but felt the quality of the beans must have been off because he felt it was less than it should have been considering the cost.

With "all-in-one" devices and especially with high end "built-in's" one can not assume that there's a correlation between drink quality and price. I can make better espresso with a $200 machine and a $100 grinder and better cpffee with a $3 plastic filter cone and $20 grinder relative to what a shiny new Miele can produce.

The anectdotal evidence I have from end users implies that Saeco and Jura superautomatic machines produce comparable results but that Jura might be more reliable.

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The reason I chose the Saeco over the Jura was simply the ability to have it plumbed into the water line. At that time, the only others that were available were commercial units that were much more complicated to operate.

plumbed-in "coffee bars"

This was a replacement for a truly ancient Gaggia that leaked steam and water and was very fussy to use - unless the portafilter was in just the right position, one would be surprised with a burst of steam, frightening sounds and the ejection of bubbles of coffee laden hot water.

It also weighed a great deal and was very difficult to move.

I have quite a few vintage and antique coffee makers of various kinds but never felt the need to collect espresso machines.

Daniel has an impressive collection of antique espresso machines, including a huge copper and brass La Pavoni, early Gaggias, and several others with names I can't recall. The one he currently uses most is possibly a commercial machine and I can't recall the name, Mozzoco or Mazocco, as well as an Expobar and a Pasquini. He doesn't have a superautomatic machine because he says he doesn't need one, however he does say that for people who want a "plug and play" machine that does not have a steep learing curve, they are fine. If one is a strict traditionalist and has an extremely refined taste then the traditional machines would be best but it takes practice to get a "perfect" shot.

He says it took him ten years of practice to draw a shot that pleased his grandfather. On the other hand, his father would drink anything that even remotely resembled coffee. He also says that over the years he has spent enough on coffee/espresso machines and equipment to buy a Rolls..... He thinks the money has been well spent!

[Bond Girl]

While we are on this topic, what is the best way to make froth milk?

[kbuzbee]

While we are on this topic, what is the best way to make froth milk?

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Depends how you mean. My Bamix will froth cold milk just fine but I assume you mean a steam wand that is part of the espresso machine???

1. Don't use skim milk. Whole milk or better.

2. Start with the tip right on the milk (in a fairly narrow vessel)

3. As the milk getts small fine bubbles on top, lower the wand into the milk.

4. slowly move it up and down until the milk gets to ~140f

There are more detailed threads on CoffeeGeek but that should get you started

Ken

[kbuzbee]

The one he currently uses most is possibly a commercial machine and I can't recall the name, Mozzoco or Mazocco, as well as an Expobar and a Pasquini. 

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A La Marzocco?? Wow, how cool. Okay, a little jealous....

Ken

[andiesenji]

Just for myself I use the BonJour Primo Latte which whips the hot milk (heated in microwave) just dandy. Primo Latte at AmazonThe Aerolatte is exactly the samebut was more expensive, with the stand and I didn't like the stand. Although they have a different one now.

For serving several people, I have a Froth au Lait(actually the one I have is the Froth 'n Sauce)

which works beautifully to both heat and froth milk (and it WILL froth half & half).

The Saeco I have also froths automatically - the milk is put into a separate container that is attached to the machine with a siphon tube and draws it up and dispenses it into the coffee mug or whatever.

I also have a very old gadget called a "Whip-It" that also froths milk, hot or cold, and if you can find one of these "vintage" mayonnaise makers, it works a treat.

a video that demonstrates the Froth au Lait is at this web site.

Edited April 21, 2006 by andiesenji (log)

[Bond Girl]

I think I want an apparatus that makes froth milk. I own an espresso machine, not a capuccino maker, so I don't actually have anything that makes frothy milk. No tips that blows steam into my milk either.

What is the best way to do think, something advanced or old fashioned?

[andiesenji]

I just got some information from my friend Daniel who directed me to this web page.

He had this machine for evaluation for a couple of months last summer and says that for the price, it is far better than others (of comparable price) and he feels it is a great value.

He also corrected me about an earlier post. His machine is a La Marzocco but it requires a 220 v line (his is plugged into a special receptical where he used to have an electric stove) and it is also plumbed in.

He bought it in Italy when he was visiting relatives a few years ago.

I guess it is considered the "Rolls-Royce" of espresso machines, but I doubt I could ever learn to operate it correctly.

Edited April 21, 2006 by andiesenji (log)

[Bond Girl]

Andi, that davina looks delicious from a design stand point...do not tempt me to make another purchase.