Olive Garden

[rich]

I think the NY Times gave the Olive Garden two strars, but deducted one because the music wasn't good and the bathroom cubicle doors didn't lock.

Eighty posts on the Olive Garden - that says more about its popularity than any comment on the thread.

[menton1]

They opened in Times Square, not one of the residential or "hip" neighborhoods. Probably a large percentage of tourist trade. They did their demographic homework. Put them in Chelsea or the UWS and they wouldn't do so well...

[Lyle]

Eighty posts on the Olive Garden - that says more about its popularity than any comment on the thread.

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Or it's ubiquity.

[Megan Blocker]

They opened in Times Square, not one of the residential or "hip" neighborhoods.  Probably a large percentage of tourist trade.  They did their demographic homework.  Put them in Chelsea or the UWS and they wouldn't do so well...

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They also have an outpost at 23rd and 6th.

[JanMcBaker]

I help at assorted cooking classes held at the Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia. A 2-part class just concluded on Monday-- 'Learn Italian while you cook Italian.' The chef/instructor was talking about Italian restaurants and mentioned OG. She said if you have visitors from Italy, don't take them to Olive Garden-- they'd be horrified by the portion sizes, that they'd be repulsed by the huge quantities served. She didn't even get past that to anything about how the food tastes!

[Lyle]

I may simply show my family's dining habits, but I remember the gleeful looks on my parents eyes as we first ate at the Olive Garden after it opened in Abilene TX in the mid-80's. And we went back. Again and again and again. I always ordered the eggplant parmesan, side of spaghetti (tomato sauce was a given). I learned the trick of crisping soggy leftovers in the oven. I hold more nostalgia with OG than any other restaurant. Don't laugh, it's just when and where I grew up.

Too bad I've long ago passed it by. Haven't been back in almost a decade.

edit: Even a better thing I won't go back. Nostalgia is often a wonderful thing.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Lyle (log)

[jgm]

If I were visiting NYC, Olive Garden or any other chain would be the last place I'd go. I would definitely want to hit a couple of the high-end places as well as several neighborhood spots. I have a pretty good sense of adventure, and I'm unflappable enough that I'd be willing to approach just about anybody and ask them for recommendations. Even if they were rude and refused, I'd see that as just part of the adventure and experience of traveling.

However, my family still lives in a small town in a somewhat isolated area of the state. It's where I grew up --oh, the stories I could tell you! But they're off-topic. I could definitely see them seeking out a chain restaurant like OG. They would be overwhelmed by how different it is from where they live; no open blue skies, little vegetation, and no livestock. Their idea of a traffic jam is more than two cars in line at McDonald's. And they would be downright afraid of some of the people they would meet.

That's just who they are. I'm neither criticizing nor defending them. But I do eat dinner with them when they come to town, and we often eat at OG. One of the considerations: it's fairly quiet in there, and they can hear each other. There are other, locally owned restaurants that have better food, but "madhouse" comes to mind as a description of the atmosphere and acoustics in most of them. Their goal: to visit with relatives and have a meal, in that order. OG works well for that.

[kumquatmay]

Back in the days when my ex (who traveled worldwide 80% of the time) wasn't my ex, I would ask him over and over again why, when traveling, he would always seek out the Olive Garden, Outback, PF Changs, Domino's, etc.  instead of enjoying the local flavor of whatever area he happened to be traveling to.  His response every time?  Because its exactly the same no matter where I go. I know what to expect on the menu.

Now, to me, that's an unacceptable answer ...

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To a certain extent, I can understand his feeling that way, especially if he traveled 80% of the time. My mom does this, and she's pretty adventurous eating-wise. On a business trip, unless you're in a place well-known for it's local food, do you really want to struggle to find the one decent local place that'll may or may not pass muster? It's a whole lot easier when you're tired and hungry to just suck it up and go into the chain resturant where at least you can get a dinner salad where you know what you're going to get.

It's really hard to be traveling, working, and trying something new for three meals a day. And it gets really discourgaging if most of those meals end up being worse than anything you'd get at OG. I wouldn't want to only eat at chains when traveling, but I can understand the impulse.

Now, that's not to say that I personally don't research out most (ok, every) meal I can when I travel, but I think non-foodie folks don't really feel the need to take the time and effort to do it. Even my husband, who loves food and resturants, thinks I'm a little crazy when I present him with lists of possible places.

[tommy]

Eighty posts on the Olive Garden - that says more about its popularity than any comment on the thread.

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i don't think so. it's just not that simple. what it says to me is that there are strong opinions that are met with equally strong opinions, just as with any subject where emotions come into play. for each poster that says "who would eat that crap", or, "only tourists eat there", there's another poster who *has* eaten there for various reasons, or whose mom goes there for one reason or another, or whose aunt came to visit them and wanted "Red Lobster" so the thoughtful "true new yorker" obliged, and, it becomes personal.

and beyond the "becoming personal" issue, it offends some people's sense of logic and sensible thinking on a most basic level. "only tourists go there" or "true new yorkers don't eat there" is not a sensible conclusion, to my mind. casually noticing a line outside the door and making the determination that those people are clearly not "new yorkers" is not either. it's funny, it's thought provoking, perhaps satirical, but it's nothing more than anecdotal, and it begs, demands, rebuttal. my favorite poster "fat guy" did a nice job of it in fact. i see no one has attempted to refute him with any success.

everyone can deduce all they want, but there are reasons beyond your understanding why people go to the OG, or, why they post about it on a thread like this. i can guarantee it. but perhaps Rich is right, the OG *is* popular. just not in the sense he meant.

edit: totally cross-posed with kumquatmay on the following:

p.s. i don't know how many people have travelled for a living, ending up in strange (perhaps great) cities or towns, but i can tell you this: when you have 1 hour to grab dinner, and you're tired and smelly, the last thing you want to do is go on an adventure. and i can think of countless places around any OG or Red Lobster in NYC that will offer nothing less than a shit experience. no thanks. i'll grab a salad and some pasta at a place i know won't produce any "surprises." i'll save my culinary adventures for a proper vacation.

Edited March 29, 2006 by tommy (log)

[cakewalk]

They would be overwhelmed by how different it is from where they live; ... little vegetation, and no livestock. 

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Hey, we have dandelions and pigeons. You got a problem with that?

[raji]

Raji, the chains thrive in New York City as well. McDonald's, Olive Garden, Outback, Domino's . . . lots of them are here and doing very well.

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Yeah but they're here for the tourists. I don't know any proper NYer who patronizes any of them.

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As a "proper New Yorker" -- my mother was born at Mount Sinai hospital, I was born at Mount Sinai hospital, my son was born at Mount Sinai hospital -- I can say with the voice of authority and experience that there are millions of "proper New Yorkers" who have no taste or discernment whatsoever when it comes to food. While New York is home to a large portion of the cream of the crop of the gourmet community, the population as a whole is nearly as food-ignorant as the population anywhere else. Not all New Yorkers are foodies. Not even a small percentage are. That's why we have so many bad restaurants -- not just chains, either: there are bad restaurants of all kinds here.

Marian Burros wrote about the chains in the New York Times in June 2003 in an article "Chains Bring Strip Mall Flavor, Or Lack of It, To Manhattan." The article, well researched, does not support the theory that only tourists dine at the chains. A particularly telling expert quote:

Clark Wolf, the restaurant consultant, is not surprised that locals are going to casual chain restaurants. ''New Yorkers as a group are not at the cutting edge and that's the dirty secret,'' he said. ''As brutal as it sounds, these chains reflect the expectations of the community.''

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Argh well let's not confuse fast food with these casual chains. Fast food works anywhere. But I only see Olive Gardens, Red Lobsters, Fridays, Applebees, etc., in areas trafficked by out-of-towners, because I think they feel safe eating there.

Of course there are just as many food-ignorant as anywhere else, judging by how many bad diners, pizzerias and delis there are.

[menton1]

p.s.  i don't know how many people have travelled for a living, ending up in strange (perhaps great) cities or towns, but i can tell you this:  when you have 1 hour to grab dinner, and you're tired and smelly, the last thing you want to do is go on an adventure.  and i can think of countless places around any OG or Red Lobster in NYC that will offer nothing less than a shit experience.  no thanks.  i'll grab a salad and some pasta at a place i know won't produce any "surprises."  i'll save my culinary adventures for a proper vacation.

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Funny, I remember one of the motel chains using just the slogan "No surprises" in their TV ads a few years ago...

For myself, one of these chain places would be a last resort. I like surprises. If I was tired and smelly (who, me?) I might consider a take-out or a greasy spoon, or anywhere that seemed family-owned. But when traveling, if I'm sitting down to a dinner, a chain is only an act of desperation for me. And yes, I'm sure this No Surprise factor plays a large role in these resto chains' successes, with their mediocre everything.

[tommy]

p.s.  i don't know how many people have travelled for a living, ending up in strange (perhaps great) cities or towns, but i can tell you this:  when you have 1 hour to grab dinner, and you're tired and smelly, the last thing you want to do is go on an adventure.  and i can think of countless places around any OG or Red Lobster in NYC that will offer nothing less than a shit experience.  no thanks.  i'll grab a salad and some pasta at a place i know won't produce any "surprises."  i'll save my culinary adventures for a proper vacation.

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Funny, I remember one of the motel chains using just the slogan "No surprises" in their TV ads a few years ago...

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smart. business travellers don't like surprises.

[Dryden]

As a former consultant who used to travel to some of the highest traffic places you can imagine (Washington Courthouse, OH; Cayce, SC; Tri Cities, TN; Jefferson City, MO (don't let the fact it's the capital fool you into thinking it's a real place) - I feel like I can say that no matter where you travel, there's almost always something worth finding. It's true that in some of them, the Applebee's or the Ruby Tuesday's or even Taco Bell may be the second, third or even first best place to eat in town, but I know that I always tried to make an effort to find something more interesting to eat, even when many of my colleagues might have been happy to settle for something that was right out in the open.

There's a totally out of the way place in Bristol, TN, for example, called the Troutdale Dining Room that is some deeply impressive food, but you'd have to get lost to find it. The experiences like those are the ones that made travelling to random places worthwhile. Having said that, there are some good rules of thumb, like don't order fish in an unfamiliar town that's nowhere near a body of water...

[tommy]

As a former consultant who used to travel to some of the highest traffic places you can imagine (Washington Courthouse, OH; Cayce, SC; Tri Cities, TN; Jefferson City, MO (don't let the fact it's the capital fool you into thinking it's a real place) - I feel like I can say that no matter where you travel, there's almost always something worth finding.  .

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you (and me) are very special that way. but most of the world isn't. otherwise egullet and chowhound would have 2 billion members, rather than 10's of thousands. it seems to go without saying really.

[Dryden]

p.s.  i don't know how many people have travelled for a living, ending up in strange (perhaps great) cities or towns, but i can tell you this:  when you have 1 hour to grab dinner, and you're tired and smelly, the last thing you want to do is go on an adventure.  and i can think of countless places around any OG or Red Lobster in NYC that will offer nothing less than a shit experience.  no thanks.  i'll grab a salad and some pasta at a place i know won't produce any "surprises."  i'll save my culinary adventures for a proper vacation.

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Funny, I remember one of the motel chains using just the slogan "No surprises" in their TV ads a few years ago...

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smart. business travellers don't like surprises.

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I don't think that's true. Business travelers tend to be exhausted, and don't know their way around very well, but if you told them there was great, surprising food to be had (at almost any price - expense accounts are a nice thing) - I think you'd be surprised how far people will go. I've always had good luck on business asking some local folks where they go for a really, really special occasion. Usually, it makes for great dinner, and the prices (if you're coming from NY, anyway) aren't often too bad, either.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Dryden (log)

[Dryden]

As a former consultant who used to travel to some of the highest traffic places you can imagine (Washington Courthouse, OH; Cayce, SC; Tri Cities, TN; Jefferson City, MO (don't let the fact it's the capital fool you into thinking it's a real place) - I feel like I can say that no matter where you travel, there's almost always something worth finding.  .

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you (and me) are very special that way. but most of the world isn't. otherwise egullet and chowhound would have 2 billion members, rather than 10's of thousands. it seems to go without saying really.

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People aren't willing to do the work to find these places, but if they are told about them, they'll go. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem... if you ask the people in the hotel, they'll tell you what they think you want to hear (which is usually the nearest place to get a steak). But if you ask them where they'd go for their parents' fiftieth anniversary, you tend to get different responses.

Knowing good food when you eat it, and wanting to eat it, isn't often the same thing as being as obsessed about it as most of the folks around here are.

[tommy]

p.s.  i don't know how many people have travelled for a living, ending up in strange (perhaps great) cities or towns, but i can tell you this:  when you have 1 hour to grab dinner, and you're tired and smelly, the last thing you want to do is go on an adventure.  and i can think of countless places around any OG or Red Lobster in NYC that will offer nothing less than a shit experience.  no thanks.  i'll grab a salad and some pasta at a place i know won't produce any "surprises."  i'll save my culinary adventures for a proper vacation.

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Funny, I remember one of the motel chains using just the slogan "No surprises" in their TV ads a few years ago...

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smart. business travellers don't like surprises.

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I don't think that's true. Business travelers tend to be exhausted, and don't know their way around very well, but if you told them there was great, surprising food to be had (at almost any price - expense accounts are a nice thing) - I think you'd be surprised how far people will go.

agreed. if you hold peoples' hands and show them great things, they will most likely go the extra mile and they might even enjoy it.

edited to reflect the edit by Dryden.

Edited March 29, 2006 by tommy (log)

[menton1]

I'm with you, Dryden. With the all the information available on the net, reviews, directions, etc. in the past 5 years there's hardly a reason to go to one of those chains. Just a little planning can go a long way. I don't travel much in the States, most of my vacations are to Europe, but the last couple of years have seen me in Nashville, Providence, Florida, DC, and the Northeast, and I've always managed to find some decent eats without ever going to a chain.

Of course, I was with some people last summer that corralled me into a "Cracker Barrel". Ugh.

[Dryden]

Compared to the places (I think) that Tommy and I are talking about, Providence and Nashville are like being in Paris.

[menton1]

Compared to the places (I think) that Tommy and I are talking about, Providence and Nashville are like being in Paris.

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Well, I said I don't travel much in the states, I have been to some backwaters in Pa and NY state and also found good eats. But if it's too much of a backwater, I think the chains won't be there, either.

Incidentally, Providence and Nashville may be nice, but there's nothing like Paris. (Unless you meant Paris, Texas. )

[tommy]

I'm with you, Dryden.  With the all the information available on the net, reviews, directions, etc. in the past 5 years there's hardly a reason to go to one of those chains.  Just a little planning can go  a long way.  I don't travel much in the States, most of my vacations are to Europe, but the last couple of years have seen me in Nashville, Providence, Florida, DC, and the Northeast,  and I've always managed to find some decent eats without ever going to a chain. 

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menton, if you are on vacation and you go to a chain restaurant, i'll hunt you down and beat you with a carrot. however, the thrust of my point is business travel.

look, we all have different experiences, and i'm sure anyone involved in this discussion approaches travel (business OR pleasure) completely differently than 99% of the planet. i think it's important to understand how the other half lives (you know, those people at Red Lobster).

at any rate, i would hope that everyone involved in this discussion has eaten at OG. and Daniel, if you're still reading, I'm hoping you do as well, least of all so you can form an informed opinion. and if the free lobster and cocktails offer is still on the table, i will reiterate: what time would you like me to be there.

[menton1]

Absolutely, tommy, Eg is certainly not a captive audience for chains.

But, concerning business travelers, these places usually tout themselves as "family restaurants". A peek in to one of these at dinner usually one can observe a plethora of families with kids eating. I would suspect business people tend to try to eat at their hotel, if it has a resto. If you're talking about staying in rural areas, I don't know if the chains locate themselves in TOO rural an area... Yes, I suppose it can be daunting to find a restaurant in the middle of nowhere after a long day..

But my guess is that these chains rely more on local families for their patronage rather than business. But that's a guess.

[Dryden]

I'm with you, Dryden.  With the all the information available on the net, reviews, directions, etc. in the past 5 years there's hardly a reason to go to one of those chains.  Just a little planning can go  a long way.  I don't travel much in the States, most of my vacations are to Europe, but the last couple of years have seen me in Nashville, Providence, Florida, DC, and the Northeast,  and I've always managed to find some decent eats without ever going to a chain. 

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menton, if you are on vacation and you go to a chain restaurant, i'll hunt you down and beat you with a carrot. however, the thrust of my point is business travel.

look, we all have different experiences, and i'm sure anyone involved in this discussion approaches travel (business OR pleasure) completely differently than 99% of the planet. i think it's important to understand how the other half lives (you know, those people at Red Lobster).

at any rate, i would hope that everyone involved in this discussion has eaten at OG. and Daniel, if you're still reading, I'm hoping you do as well, least of all so you can form an informed opinion. and if the free lobster and cocktails offer is still on the table, i will reiterate: what time would you like me to be there.

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I'll come, too. Tommy and I can trade horrible travel eating war stories.

[tommy]

But my guess is that these chains rely more on local families for their patronage rather than business.  But that's a guess.

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there's no doubt in my mind that they make most of their profit on people who have no taste in food and couldn't care less. however, it's important to note the logical distinction between that (largely undisputed) fact, and any assertion that people who eat there have no taste in food and couldn't care less. for example, i go to chains, and my taste is, without a doubt, more discerning than 95% of the people reading this thread right now. of this you are assured.

dryden, i'll see you at the Times Square OG at 6 pm. i'll be at the bar in a blue and yellow striped shirt. wishing i were elsewhere.

over-and-out.

Edited March 29, 2006 by tommy (log)