Best fine dining towns in New Jersey

[dRock]

I have to disagree with you Tommy. I think a restaurants location is one of the most important elements to a places long term success. Of course there are always other factors involed. Quality of food and service, advertising, word of mouth etc.

Edited March 3, 2006 by dRock (log)

[menton1]

How about this.  If you were planning on opening a "fine dining" type establishment, what town do you think would give you the best chance of success.

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Readington.

[dRock]

Englewood?

[KatieLoeb]

I have to disagree with you Tommy.  I think a restaurants location is one of the most important elements to a places long term success.  Of course there  are always other factors involed.  Quality of food and service, advertising, word of mouth etc.

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Only in a more general sense. If you think a fine dining restaurant that could rely only on locals and the "local demographic" to support it can exist, I suggest not opening a restuaurant, particularly a fine dining establishment that requires considerably more capital outlay than a smaller BYO or bistro would. A fine dining restaurant with high check averages by definition needs to be a "destination" dining spot. The location doesn't matter as long as it isn't in an undesirable location. The locals better not be your only target customers or the over-under is about 3 months by my calculations.

[dRock]

Thats a very good point. I suppose the menu must also appeal to the masses.

Edited March 3, 2006 by dRock (log)

[tommy]

i'm taking the under.

[whitetrufflechick]

The towns that continue to be mentioned as "fine dining" towns are towns with not only a higher economic demographic, but I feel that, more importantly, the majority of towns that are mentioned are towns where a well-developed downtown provides walking about after dinner and a 'strolling through town looking in windows and sitting for a spell after dinner over a cup of coffee and a little something sweet ' atmosphere.

On a Friday afternoon, when contemplating the "where will we eat tonite" question, the idea of a well-rounded evening -- not just an eat-and-run (for lack of a better term), contributes signifigantly to the idea of the restaurant atmosphere itself when the decision of "where shall we eat tonite" comes up.

-Ridgewood

-Montclair

-Hoboken

and further south, Lambertville, and even Cape May

all have me thinking of strolling before/after dinner in addition to anticipating a great dining experience. I am less apt to choose a place like Harvest (menu option aside) because its rather isolated. Get in the car at home, get out of the car in the lot, eat, get back in the car and either go home or find somewhere else to walk off the meal/spend some time before calling it an evening.

So, I believe that naturally a restaurant's food quality, atmosphere, service, etc. will make or break a place, but when trying to determine what the 'Best Fine Dining Towns in NJ" are, I think that the downtown areas create a canvas for such restaurant area to develop and thrive.

[Rosie]

Morristown and Somerville might be possibilities.

[jasper]

Morristown and Somerville might be possibilities.

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I have to say, as great of a town as Hoboken is, alot of my patrons dont like the parking situation there. If its raining, snowing, or even really cold, the restaurant gets a good amount of cancellations. Also, alot of people claim that Hoboken is too much of a "college town." I guess in some cases this is true. Ill tell you something else, if I had a dollar for every time someone told me I should be in Montclair, Id already be retired.

[Amy Eber]

http://www.fascinorestaurant.com/ in Montclair

Im trying to figure out wich NJ towns support fine dining restaurants the most.  Is it Chatham, Montclair, Alpine.........

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[lmkennedy53]

I understand, but is poor weekday business and good weekend business the nature of fine dining?  If some of these restaurants were in different locations would their situation be any better.  For example.  Venue is my favorite and the most daring restaurant in the state.  Is the fact that they are in Hoboken hurting them?  Would they be better off in Saddle River or Montclair. I just wonder if there are any towns in NJ that would support restaurants of this "Manhattan calibur"

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I think we are talking about 2 different things. I think there are restaurant towns...Montclair , Red Bank, New Brunswick and then there are restaurant destinations like the Ryland Inn, Nicholas(which isn't located downtown red bank) and our restaurant. The restaurant towns have a variety to choose from and competiton is strong but when you go to a town specifically for a restaurant, you are going to dine somewhere special. I don't think it really matters where it is located as much as the quality of the food. People come from all over the state to our restaurant. Most of them have never been to Rahway before. But, they know we received an excellent from the nytimes and they want to try it and they return. Some people from Rahway come to the restaurant but more people come from out of town. We have heard time and time again that our rest. is as good as any in nyc. Some even come from the city to eat here. But let me be honest, it takes A LOT of money to start up a fine dining restaurant so unless you feel you have a good chance of making it, most people are afraid of losing their shirts!! We are busy during the week ( i would also like to know your definition of slow) not as busy as the wkend but we are busy. We are usually booked several wks in advance for the wkends.

[KatieLoeb]

Thats a very good point.  I suppose the menu must also appeal to the masses.

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Um - yeah. Seems self-evident to me.

I think the entire premise of the original question is absurd. There is no such thing as a "fine-dining town" any more than there's a city that's ideal for dentists. That there is a higher income demographic is utterly meaningless unless you know for certain that those people live in homes without kitchens and have to eat out every night. And my guess is that those higher income demographic households also have expensive designer kitchens with Sub-Zero freezers and Wolf stoves in them too. For every upper middle class and upper class McMansion in any given town of NorthJerseyBurbia you probably have at least an equal number of solidly middle class and lower middle class households that might never come to your restaurant at all or maybe only for a special occasion. So there goes half your client base out the window already. For the rest of them, how many eat out and how often? How much do they spend? Just because they have the money, doesn't mean it's going into your cash register. If it were as easy as shooting fish in a barrel the failure rate for restaurants (at ALL price points and levels of sophistication) wouldn't be as high as it is.

I really don't mean to piss in your Wheaties, but if you're even remotely considering expending the capital to open a fine dining establishment, I think your perspective needs some tweaking before you spend one thin dime. The capital outlay is tremendous, the risks are huge, and I can guarantee you that I can rattle off a dozen items that haven't even hit your radar screen in terms of fixed and variable monthly costs yet without even breaking a sweat.

All you can do is find good real estate, with good foot traffic in a reasonably NOT undesireable area and put out excellent product, have excellent service, promote it properly and do some good Public Relations. After that you see if you've found your "fine dining town".

If you build it, they will come.

[dRock]

Take it easy! Relax. have a drink or something.

[KatieLoeb]

Take it easy!  Relax.  have a drink or something.

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I'm perfectly calm. This just happens to be an area I know something about after working as Controller of a restaurant through a bankruptcy. I thought you were fishing for advice on a town to open a restaurant in based on a flawed premise. Just wanted to point that out. You are free to ignore me. Lots of folks do.

I am off to fix a cocktail, however, simply because it's Friday evening and because I can.

[dRock]

Imkennedy,

It seems like you are using this thread to contstantly plug your restaurant. Since your restaurant is "such a destination", I dont think its necessary. Its actually getting quite annoying.

Edited March 4, 2006 by dRock (log)

[tommy]

edited for stuplication.

Edited March 4, 2006 by tommy (log)

[tommy]

while kaite has been nothing but open and honest about her restaurant connections and employers over the years here at egullet, you, and your motives, to my mind, have always been suspect.

people who are paying attention don't trust you. i say this as a favor, just in case you're actually considering going into business for yourself.

edit: i see you've managed to properly credit your comment to ms. kennedy. same goes for her. and still for you.

[Curlz]

Take it easy!  Relax.  have a drink or something.

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How can I jump in and say that our fair Katie doesn't drink when you follow with this?!?

I am off to fix a cocktail, however, simply because it's Friday evening and because I can. 

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Thank goodness Tommy defended your honor.

And said what so many of us are thinking...

[KatieLoeb]

Take it easy!  Relax.  have a drink or something.

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How can I jump in and say that our fair Katie doesn't drink when you follow with this?!?

I am off to fix a cocktail, however, simply because it's Friday evening and because I can. 

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Oh Jeez! I don't think I could get away with saying that, even with my fingers crossed behind my back. A bolt of lightning might strike me dead!

Thank goodness Tommy defended your honor. 

And said what so many of us are thinking...

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My thanks to both of you for watching my back. You guys are true friends.

As for what others are thinking, I can not say. But you and Tommy have made your thoughts fairly easy to read.

[Rebecca263]

Is dRock thinking of opening a new venue? Just wondering!

[dRock]

[dRock]

Is dRock thinking of opening a new venue? Just wondering!

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Hey. Now thats an idea. Or maybe even a New Ryland Inn. In Allendale NJ

[Lreda]

Dude, shouldn't be messing with Katie. 21 years old. OK, a pass should be made by all. Otherwise, think before posting........by the way I'm not an elder.....just a on the way to be burn-out.

Lou

[KatieLoeb]

dRock:

I meant no insult to you. I was sincere in wanting to help you and give you good sound advice based on years of experience in the business. I suspect when you have a few more years in the business, it will make my advice seem a little clearer. Like when the eye doctor clicks over to the better lens and you can suddenly read the eye chart again.

By the way - I did think of one notable exception to my theory upthread. There may be no good "fine dining town" or no good city for dentists, but Beverly Hills and plastic surgeons go together like peanut butter and jelly.

And Lou - I'm right there with you on the burnout thang...

[Jeff L]

Thats a very good point.  I suppose the menu must also appeal to the masses.

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I really don't mean to piss in your Wheaties, but if you're even remotely considering expending the capital to open a fine dining establishment, I think your perspective needs some tweaking before you spend one thin dime.

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Piss in your Wheaties Katie?