Roasting Pans: The Topic

[marie-louise]

I think I would hate cleaning that ridge on the SLT pan.

[Fat Guy]

I assume the same characteristics that make for good stove top cookware would also make for a good roaster… is that a correct assumption?

←

I would say that is not a correct assumption under most circumstances. If, for example, you are roasting something on a rack, the thermal properties of the roasting pan are nearly irrelevant. Roasting is not about the pan cooking the food; it's about the air in the oven cooking the food and the pan is there mostly to secure whatever is roasting and to catch drippings. Even if you make a reduction on the stovetop after roasting, it's not as though you need quick responsiveness -- you're not making hollandaise. If you're braising -- in other words not using your roasting pan to roast -- you want a thick vessel like a Staub or Le Creuset oven, though I think heavy all-metal Dutch ovens are also terrific for braising and a lot cheaper and better for roasting smaller items.

I think the best values in roasting pans (and stockpots, and lots of other things) are to be found at restaurant supply places. You can find something like one of the Johnson Rose 24 gauge (that's a little more than 5mm thick) steel roasting pans for about 25 bucks. These things function day in day out under restaurant conditions, where handles would mostly just get in the way. Check out this one from BigTray. And you can probably do better in most any Chinatown.

[slkinsey]

I assume the same characteristics that make for good stove top cookware would also make for a good roaster… is that a correct assumption?

I would say that is not a correct assumption under most circumstances. If, for example, you are roasting something on a rack, the thermal properties of the roasting pan are nearly irrelevant. Roasting is not about the pan cooking the food; it's about the air in the oven cooking the food and the pan is there mostly to secure whatever is roasting and to catch drippings.

I agree with this for the most part. It's true that the thermal properties of the roasting pan make very little difference when one is roasting. It's not quite accurate to say that it makes no difference, because tests (and my own personal experience) have shown that dark colored anodized aluminum roasting pans provide more browning than light colored stainless roasting pans. But it's a minute difference.

Mostly what you want is something reasonably sturdy and heavy. I wouldn't worry too much about whether it is clad aluminum or anything like that. All-Clad no doubt stopped using fully clad aluminum for its roasting pans because they realized they could charge the same for just stainless and it didn't affect the performance at all. The reason you want something reasonably heavy and sturdy is simply so it doesn't bend or warp when you lift the roast our of the oven. It also helps the pan's versatility, because you can use the pan as a bain marie while cooking a bunch of miniature soufflés, you can use it as a pan for lasagne al forno, and so on. As others have pointed out upthread, you're really better off using a copiously preheated heavy frypan for those instances when you are roasting a fairly small food item (say, 3-4 pound spatchcocked chicken) and you want to take advantage of convection heat from the pan as well as radiant heat from the oven.

[Richard Kilgore]

The reason most people have given for prefering the old A-C tri-clad roasters have been their performance on the stove top after roasting for making sauces, citing the even heating with the aluminum core. Do heavy all steel pans do the same?

[irodguy]

williams-sonoma has this one on their 'secret sale' right now.  but i can't seem to figure out what it's made out of.  i suspect stainless steel, but the picture makes me think aluminum.  i'm thinking about picking it up; i have a w-s gift certificate from christmas, and like fittydolla my roasting pan is a cheapo stainless steel thing that it's hard to make gravy in on the stovetop after roasting something.

←

I just called my local store here in Plano. After giving them the link they said they would honor the sale price So I have one reserved to pick up later this afternoon. All though it's not copper, it still fits in with my Mauviel collection

[budrichard]

Falk Culinair is the best that I have. The only problem is that they have not made a bigger one yet! Great for searing in the pan and the makeing of a reduction after roasting. A whole tenderloin went into the pan on Xmas and turned out excellent. Only problem is that I had to cut the head and roast along side the body of the tenderloin because of the lenght.-Dick

[slkinsey]

Mostly what you want is something reasonably sturdy and heavy.  I wouldn't worry too much about whether it is clad aluminum or anything like that.  All-Clad no doubt stopped using fully clad aluminum for its roasting pans because they realized they could charge the same for just stainless and it didn't affect the performance at all.

The reason most people have given for prefering the old A-C tri-clad roasters have been their performance on the stove top after roasting for making sauces, citing the even heating with the aluminum core. Do heavy all steel pans do the same?

Well... I think there are a few things at play here:

First, one shouldn't discount people's ability to convince themselves that this is actually happening. As we know, many people who have remarked on the"even heating" of All-Clad's roasting pans were actually using regular stainless with no thermal core.

Second, it's not clear to me that one even needs particularly even heating to make a pan sauce in a roasting pan. A roasting pan with a thermal core will provide more even heat, but so what? To make a pan sauce, we're talking about a few seconds on the stove, maybe make a little roux, splash in some liquid to deglaze, whisk it around, pour it out. Anything more than that (simmering, reduction, etc.) should really be done in a saucepan. During the brief moments the pan is on the burners, a little unevenness of heat won't hurt anyone. Certainly not to the tune of a 1100% markup over Steven's example (All-Clad's 16 by 13 roasting pan retails for $275 USD).

I'd rather have the 25 dollar stainless steel pan, spend $165 on a 3.4 quart Falk Culinair stainless lined heavy copper saucepan and use the rest on a couple of prime beef tenderloins which I could roast in the roasting pan and sauce with a sauce from the saucepan. Ultimately, I think that's a better expenditure of money.

[russ parsons]

after years of making do with sub-par roasting pans, i sprang for the miniature all-clad this year ($80 on e-bay, including shipping). i used it for christmas day's standing rib roast and was really pleased. the two areas i noticed the biggest difference (my previous was a heavy aluminum nonstick) was in stovetop browning (i seared the fat side since i was going to roast it at low temp) and in something for want of a better phrase i'll call "juice retention". in my old nonstick, exuded juices during roasting coagulated in a weird way. with this pan, i got really great jus to use as a sauce. since i didn't do the same road side-by-side in my old pan, this is not a scientific comparison. but on a strictly anecdotal basis, i'm really happy with the money i spent.

[Fat Guy]

Anecdotally, I can confirm that non-stick performs poorly for me when it comes to stovetop browning. I've read here and there that without some stickiness, the maillard reaction doesn't occur to a sufficient extent. I imagine the coagulation issue occurs for similar reasons: the stickiness allows bits to coagulate, which then brown and trigger additional reactions and impart flavor to the jus.

If you do need to brown with non-stick, use plenty of fat -- I've had pretty good results starting with vegetable oil and finishing with butter. The remnants from this process might, moreover, be helpful as a foundation for "juice retention."

[irodguy]

I get a lot of use out of my non stick roasting pan, just not roasting

I use if for layered eggplant parm for instance, also for Potatoes Provence.

However I can assure you that the non stick really sucks for roasting. I am currently using a "generic" Stainless roaster for this job. Of course I will be picking up the new Mauviel from WS this afternoon after work

[mrbigjas]

Second, it's not clear to me that one even needs particularly even heating to make a pan sauce in a roasting pan.  A roasting pan with a thermal core will provide more even heat, but so what?  To make a pan sauce, we're talking about a few seconds on the stove, maybe make a little roux, splash in some liquid to deglaze, whisk it around, pour it out.  Anything more than that (simmering, reduction, etc.) should really be done in a saucepan.

but it goes against my central pennsylvania upbringing, which says that you make the gravy in the roasting pan. i mean, you're right of course, but grammaw wouldn't approve.

During the brief moments the pan is on the burners, a little unevenness of heat won't hurt anyone.  Certainly not to the tune of a 1100% markup over Steven's example (All-Clad's 16 by 13 roasting pan retails for $275 USD).

$275? whoa, yeah, that's... whew.

edited to say all that said, i think i'll head down to the local restaurant supply place and buy a heavy steel one and not worry about it.

actually what i'll probably do is keep using my cheap old one and complain about it every time i use it, just like i have for the last seven or eight years...

Edited December 28, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[Fat Guy]

Do yourself a favor, however, and make sure your rack is non-stick. This is probably the second-most useful role for non-stick coatings after the omelette pan. This Amco unit from BigTray is 20 bucks and will fit the pan I referenced above.

[Safran]

The reason most people have given for prefering the old A-C tri-clad roasters have been their performance on the stove top after roasting for making sauces, citing the even heating with the aluminum core. Do heavy all steel pans do the same?

←

OK, Richard, by now I'm really curious...how do you know if you have an All-Clad tri-clad or the newer All-Clad stainless only?

[fiftydollars]

Do yourself a favor, however, and make sure your rack is non-stick. This is probably the second-most useful role for non-stick coatings after the omelette pan.

Absolutely. There is nothing more tedious than scrubbing meat juices off of a metal roastnig rack.

←

Speaking of racks... What is preferable; a flat rack or a v-style rack?

Or is it more a matter of application?

[Marlene]

Racks are a matter of application I think. My 15 pound turkey did well using a V rack, but a ham doesn't always fit properly on a V rack, so I have a flat rack for that. I also use a flat rack when roasting or baking spareribs, and a V rack quite often for a Prime Rib.

Having said that, I like the way All Clad has contructed thier racks. They are kind of V shaped but with a flat bottom. It makes it a little more versitile

[slkinsey]

Everyone loves a good rack, that's for sure.

They also make adjustable racks where one can vary the angle from 180 degrees to something fairly acute. But I don't think any of those have a nonstick coating.

[robyn]

ok so we're all agreed, then: nonstick roasters bad.  cheap stamped thin stainless roasters bad. 

here's my real problem with nonstick roasters: have you ever used a rack with one?  trying to haul 10-15 pounds worth of meat at 400 degrees out of the oven while the thing is on a rack that's sliding around the roasting pan like an eel on an ice rink is a real bitch.

really, roasting isn't the problem; it's what you're doing afterwards that makes the difference.  small chickens or pieces of meat i roast in a cast iron skillet or a saute pan.  but with big stuff--trying to make a large chicken, turkey or something--it's tough making gravy in that thin stainless roasting pan without scorching it.

anyway, i'ma look into those slt pans.  they look nice.

←

I think the key with any rack is finding a rack that's a good snug fit in the pan. I have 2 "V" racks - one for each roaster. Also forgot that I have another roasting pan that came with a snug fitting flat lift out rack (think it's Chicago Metallic - something like that) that's in between the size of the small and big Circulons. It's good for roasting things that simply need to sit on a rack and drip (it's hard to baste using that particular roaster).

Anyway - I'm not a purist - and I don't think that one size fits all - dishes or cooks. There are certain dishes I cook again and again - and I've bought cookware for those dishes. Decide what *your* favorite dishes are - and then find the cookware that cooks them best - and that you find easiest to handle (in terms of getting the thing around the kitchen - cleaning up - whatever). Robyn

[robyn]

I assume the same characteristics that make for good stove top cookware would also make for a good roaster… is that a correct assumption?

←

I would say that is not a correct assumption under most circumstances. If, for example, you are roasting something on a rack, the thermal properties of the roasting pan are nearly irrelevant. Roasting is not about the pan cooking the food; it's about the air in the oven cooking the food and the pan is there mostly to secure whatever is roasting and to catch drippings. Even if you make a reduction on the stovetop after roasting, it's not as though you need quick responsiveness -- you're not making hollandaise. If you're braising -- in other words not using your roasting pan to roast -- you want a thick vessel like a Staub or Le Creuset oven, though I think heavy all-metal Dutch ovens are also terrific for braising and a lot cheaper and better for roasting smaller items.

I think the best values in roasting pans (and stockpots, and lots of other things) are to be found at restaurant supply places. You can find something like one of the Johnson Rose 24 gauge (that's a little more than 5mm thick) steel roasting pans for about 25 bucks. These things function day in day out under restaurant conditions, where handles would mostly just get in the way. Check out this one from BigTray. And you can probably do better in most any Chinatown.

←

I've never gotten into the physics of cooking - but I know braising is a totally different animal from roasting. For braising - I use 2 old Magnalite pots I have (one is a Dutch oven shape and the other is a roaster shape but they're made the same way). Magnalite isn't made anymore - but Williams Sonoma has something that looks like Magnalite (don't know whether it's made the same as Magnalite though). Robyn

[robyn]

Anecdotally, I can confirm that non-stick performs poorly for me when it comes to stovetop browning. I've read here and there that without some stickiness, the maillard reaction doesn't occur to a sufficient extent. I imagine the coagulation issue occurs for similar reasons: the stickiness allows bits to coagulate, which then brown and trigger additional reactions and impart flavor to the jus.

If you do need to brown with non-stick, use plenty of fat -- I've had pretty good results starting with vegetable oil and finishing with butter. The remnants from this process might, moreover, be helpful as a foundation for "juice retention."

←

The one thing I sear on the stovetop more than anything else before finishing in the oven is pork tenderloin marinated in various concoctions which all involve olive oil. Always get a good sear. I tried the same technique (lots of fat) on Marlene's recipe for prime rib last holiday season - and got an equally good sear. Perhaps it never occurred to me to pan sear anything without using a lot of fat. Beginner's luck . Robyn

[robyn]

Everyone loves a good rack, that's for sure.

They also make adjustable racks where one can vary the angle from 180 degrees to something fairly acute.  But I don't think any of those have a nonstick coating.

←

I've seen adjustable V racks that are non-stick - and have owned them before. But they're really small - suitable for perhaps a small chicken - nothing larger. Robyn

[Richard Kilgore]

Just to be realistic, no one should have to pay the $275 even if their heart is set on A-C for whatever misguided reason. W-S and everyone else sells the large one for $200 and the small one for $150, just like they did the tri-clad model.

[Fat Guy]

This tri-ply Calphalon set for $69 from Amazon seems to be an exceptional buy, given that it includes a non-stick rack. I can't imagine what would be better about an All-Clad piece costing twice as much -- indeed, the construction of the Calphalon piece appears to be preferable. Did somebody already mention this?

[Safran]

This tri-ply Calphalon set for $69 from Amazon seems to be an exceptional buy, given that it includes a non-stick rack. I can't imagine what would be better about an All-Clad piece costing twice as much -- indeed, the construction of the Calphalon piece appears to be preferable. Did somebody already mention this?

←

Euh, yup, I did, but bought mine, with rack, from Linen'n things. Works like a charm.

[Richard Kilgore]

That's a great deal, Steven. And in between the two Sur La Table sizes.

[robyn]

This tri-ply Calphalon set for $69 from Amazon seems to be an exceptional buy, given that it includes a non-stick rack. I can't imagine what would be better about an All-Clad piece costing twice as much -- indeed, the construction of the Calphalon piece appears to be preferable. Did somebody already mention this?

←

The Calphalon non-stick racks are sold separately (in 2 sizes) at BB&B (and perhaps at LNT too - can't remember). Can't remember exactly what they cost - maybe $20 or so - $15 with a $5 off coupon (I always get tons of those from both stores - each will honor the other's coupons - and expired coupons - the joys of capitalism and competition ). Robyn