cultured buttermilk vs. the real stuff

[freddurf]

I often have recipes that call for buttermilk, but I usually only use a little bit and the rest goes to waste. Has anyone tried the powdered buttermilk that you add water to? Does it change the quality of the cake? I'm wondering if it would be the equivalent of substituting Hershey's chocolate for Valrhona.

[rlibkind]

What's called "cultured buttermilk" in most stores actually isn't what was originally called buttermilk. (See Harold McGee's opus on the science of food for a detailed explanation.) But it works. I have used the dry buttermilk, and it's okay, but I've found it more convenient to simply add a tablespoon of white vinegar to a cup of lukewarm milk and let it sit for 10 minutes on the counter to coagulate, then use it as I would buttermilk. In baked goods, pancakes, etc., it's every bit as good as "cultured buttermilk" and a whole lot more convenient and less wasteful.

[snowangel]

I'm not as fond of the powdered stuff, either. If I'm using regular milk, I tend to prefer adding lemon juice, but have added vinegar.

But, most often I buy buttermilk and if I don't use it all, I freeze what I don't use in small containers. It works beautifully.

[sazji]

Where I live, we don't have buttermilk in any form. We do have kefir, but it's a bit pricey, so I usually just use yogurt. It makes great pancakes at least.

[rlibkind]

A lot of the baked goods that call for buttermilk need the acid buttermilk provides. This is especially true in recipes using baking soda. (Baking powder, by definition, includes baking soda and an acid, usually cream of tartar and, in the case of double-acting baking powders, another chemical acid.) That's one reason why you can easily substitute yogurt, acidified milk and other products for buttermilk: it's not so much the flavor of buttermilk per se that the recipe requires, it's the acid.

[freddurf]

Thanks for all the input! I think I like the idea of adding lemon juice or vinegar to milk, it doesn't get any easier than that.

Snowangel, when you freeze buttermilk, does it get funky after it thaws? rlibkind said that most of the recipes using baking soda need the acid in buttermilk, does it lose it potency by freezing it?

[divalasvegas]

Hello. This thread is so timely for me since I recently had a co-worker make bleu cheese dip using a recipe that has never, as in ever, failed to please. However, she said it turned out too thin. After much discussion we determined that it was the buttermilk that made the difference. I use Safeway Lucerne buttermilk. I described the texture of the product that I used which was thicker, almost yogurt-like in texture; she said that the buttermilk she used was quite thin; indeed it was described as "skim" buttermilk and had the same texture (wrong term?) as skim milk. Also, she said that the bleu cheese was muted in the final result. BTW, she's in NY and I live in Northern Virginia. She said that she bought the buttermilk from a local chain grocery store.

I guess I have more questions than answers. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that an enzyme is added to skim milk to make buttermilk, at least the mass produced variety. What happens to the whey produced after butter is produced? My mother who was raised on a farm always told me that that was true buttermilk. So why isn't this sold in stores? Why such a difference in product between NY and the DC/Virginia area?

As for freezing buttermilk, I don't see why not since you can definitely freeze regular milk.

Any and all answers are greatly appreciated.

[therese]

What happens to the whey produced after butter is produced?  My mother who was raised on a farm always told me that that was true buttermilk.  So why isn't this sold in stores? 

←

Your mom is right, true buttermilk is the liquid left after butter's been churned from cream. But that's only the case if the cream's soured ("clabbered" was the term my grandmother used) before churning. The cream's left at room temp for several days while lactic acid-producing bacteria (from the environment) do their magic (which is much faster in the summer than the winter, at least in my grandmother's farmhouse kitchen). The resulting butter has a much stronger butter taste, and the whey is buttermilk.

Butter made from unsoured, "sweet" cream has a milder flavor, and the leftover liquid is pretty blah. Almost all butter produced in the U.S. is from sweet cream. So true buttermilk isn't sold in stores because no true buttermilk is produced.

True buttermilk is fat-free, by definition: all the fat's in the butter.

[miladyinsanity]

Thanks for all the input!  I think I like the idea of adding lemon juice or vinegar to milk, it doesn't get any easier than that.

Snowangel, when you freeze buttermilk, does it get funky after it thaws? rlibkind said that most of the recipes using baking soda need the acid in buttermilk, does it lose it potency by freezing it?

←

It should not lose it's potency, because we are talking about an acid and not an enzyme that can be broken down.

[Kris]

I use powdered buttermilk cultures in my cakes, pancakes & waffles. It comes out great!

I find that using the powdered vs. the liquid "buttermilk" produces a cake with a lighter, slightlly fluffier texture.

I prefer it actually and there's no waste. I buy it by the case.

http://www.sacofoods.com/culteredbuttermilkblend.html

Edited January 21, 2006 by Kris (log)

[freddurf]

A lot of the baked goods that call for buttermilk need the acid buttermilk provides. This is especially true in recipes using baking soda. (Baking powder, by definition, includes baking soda and an acid, usually cream of tartar and, in the case of double-acting baking powders, another chemical acid.)  That's one reason why you can easily substitute yogurt, acidified milk and other products for buttermilk: it's not so much the flavor of buttermilk per se that the recipe requires, it's the acid.

←

I use powdered buttermilk cultures in my cakes, pancakes & waffles.  It comes out great!

I find that using the powdered vs. the liquid "buttermilk" produces a cake with a lighter, slightlly fluffier texture. 

I'm a little confused now. How can I tell if the recipe needs the buttermilk for the flavor or the acid? If I have a recipe that has baking soda, then I need to use the real stuff or milk with vinegar/lemon juice, right? If there is only baking powder then I can use the powdered buttermilk? Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm just a home baker!

[Jaymes]

Waste? What's this talk of "waste"?

Why don't y'all just do what we do in the south? After you've used your buttermilk in your baking, put the remainder into the freezer for about 20 minutes or so 'til it's ice cold. Then crumble cornbread into a tall glass, pour the cold buttermilk over, and eat it with a spoon.

Some folks add a little sugar or honey. Fine eating.

[shaloop]

I use both. I think some things benefit from the consistency of buttermilk. I can't imagine that an Italian Cream Cake would taste as good with powdered buttermilk or that the texture would be right. If I need buttermilk for something and have some left over, I use it up. Pancakes, waffles, cornbread, batter for frying fish or chicken or chicken strips, coleslaw, salad dressing, etc. But I also keep powdered buttermilk on hand for certain things that I dont HAVE to use fresh for, such as, biscuits, waffles and pancakes. IMO it makes excellent buttermilk biscuits.

[rlibkind]

I'm a little confused now.  How can I tell if the recipe needs the buttermilk for the flavor or the acid?  If I have a recipe that has baking soda, then I need to use the real stuff or milk with vinegar/lemon juice, right?  If there is only baking powder then I can use the powdered buttermilk?  Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm just a home baker!

←

I don't keep powdered buttermilk in the house, so I only go with the milk/vinegar concoction. Then again, I only need it for pancakes, waffles and biscuits since I'm not a big baker. I certainly think that if it's a recipe that calls for dry buttermilk powder with an amount of liquid to make it akin to fluid buttermilk, then the milk/vinegar trick would also work. Then again, sometimes I use yogurt instead: in pancakes, biscuits, etc. I find them interchangeable with barely detectable taste differences.

I'm sure there are dishes, like the Italian cream cake cited by shaloop, where it makes a difference: but the difference would be between fresh buttermilk on one hand, and its substitutes, whether they be dried buttermilk or milk/vinegar or yogurt, on the other. But for pancakes, biscuits, etc., use whichever you like or find handier. It's not worth fretting about.

[Darcie B]

I have found that buttermilk lasts much longer than the stated expiration date. I have kept it for up to a month past the expy date with no problems. It didn't even smell bad then, but by then I had used it up.

[divalasvegas]

What happens to the whey produced after butter is produced?  My mother who was raised on a farm always told me that that was true buttermilk.  So why isn't this sold in stores? 

←

Your mom is right, true buttermilk is the liquid left after butter's been churned from cream. But that's only the case if the cream's soured ("clabbered" was the term my grandmother used) before churning. The cream's left at room temp for several days while lactic acid-producing bacteria (from the environment) do their magic (which is much faster in the summer than the winter, at least in my grandmother's farmhouse kitchen). The resulting butter has a much stronger butter taste, and the whey is buttermilk.

Butter made from unsoured, "sweet" cream has a milder flavor, and the leftover liquid is pretty blah. Almost all butter produced in the U.S. is from sweet cream. So true buttermilk isn't sold in stores because no true buttermilk is produced.

True buttermilk is fat-free, by definition: all the fat's in the butter.

←

Thanks therese for that explanation. I had no idea that to get buttermilk the cream had to be soured first. And yes, now that you mention it, I definitely remember my mom using the word "clabbered" although she never exactly explained what that meant. Wow, I'd really like to get a taste of butter made the old fashioned way; sounds delicious.

[Becca Porter]

As stated above, anything cultured like yogurt or buttermilk can be kept long after their expiration date. I have gone at least 2 monthes over before I've used it up.

If you have extra buttermilk the easiest way to use it is to make buttermilk biscuits or pancakes.

-Becca

[therese]

Wow, I'd really like to get a taste of butter made the old fashioned way; sounds delicious.

←

It is.

If you live in an area that's got any sort of traditional farming (like Amish) you may be able to get it. There is one U.S. manufacturer that sells this sort of butter: Vermont Butter and Cheese (though they don't sell buttermilk, darn it). It's very good, and the sort I routinely buy, but it's not as amazing as my grandmother's was. Finally, most butter sold in Europe is made from cultured/soured/clabbered cream. So premium butters like d'Isigny will fit the bill, but U.S. butters described as "European style" are just a higher percent butterfat, not cultured.

[Darcie B]

So premium butters like d'Isigny will fit the bill, but U.S. butters described as "European style" are just a higher percent butterfat, not cultured.

←

How about Plugra?

[therese]

How about Plugra?

←

Plugra's web site makes no mention of the butter being made from cultured cream, only that it's higher % butterfat. As it's a U.S. product made for the U.S. market I'd assume that it's not cultured, particularly as it's specifically promoted for baking and some people find the cultured butter flavor too strong.

Does anybody know for sure?