School Officials Propose Ban of Whole Milk

[Patrick S]

Are we now so P.C that we cant even make a comparison between Milk and Cheetos without someone asking you to respect the good things Cheetohs has contribute.

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I don't think there is anything PC about preferring accuracy in our dicussions about food. Personally I think Cheetos taste like crap and I never eat them. I also happen to prefer whole milk in my coffee and for cooking and I'm never going to give it up.

[Patrick S]

Its milk should be the response to anyone trying to ban it.. ITS MILK....

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Clearly, no one who isn't blinded by anti-milk ideology would be able to resist such a well-reasoned argument.

[JohnL]

article  

The Illinois State Board of Education proposed the rules after Gov. Rod Blagojevich asked for a junk food ban in elementary and middle schools.

The new rules focus on the nutritional content of foods rather than broad categories of food.

But this makes perfect sense, no?

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This is "Illinois" correct?

so is Fois Gras now officially banned from schools as well?

This all reminds me of a Woody Allen scenerio wherein a benevolent dictator who declares the wearing of dirty underwear to be contrary to the common good and orders the police to arrest any offenders. In order to make enforcement of the law easier he also declares that "henceforth all citizens will wear their underwear outside their clothing."

I guess that parents are too busy worrying about the coming bird flu plague to be keeping their kids from killing themselves with twinkies!

Thank God we have the government to step in and save us!

Edited December 14, 2005 by JohnL (log)

[Daniel]

Its milk should be the response to anyone trying to ban it.. ITS MILK....

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Clearly, no one who isn't blinded by anti-milk ideology would be able to resist such a well-reasoned argument.

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Its all in the delivery..

[Patrick S]

Its milk should be the response to anyone trying to ban it.. ITS MILK....

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Clearly, no one who isn't blinded by anti-milk ideology would be able to resist such a well-reasoned argument.

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Its all in the delivery..

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True. It would be good to have a table nearby to pound your fist on as you shout "It's MILK, people!", and do some finger-wagging with the other hand.

[Rebel Rose]

Quoting selectively is what you do when you wish to single out one particular part of a larger statement, like your factually erroneous implication that baked Cheetos and whole milk have similar "amounts cholesterol and saturated fats". You may not like having your errors singled out and corrected, but that's the risk we all take when we participate in these discussions.

Patrick S, Kate was elaborating on comments made in the original article. If you feel this information is erroneous you should read the article and comment on its logic.

Kalypso, thanks for the detailed information. That's useful and amazing insight into the workings of the school food program.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Rebel Rose (log)

[JohnL]

I am rather skewed on this topic having once worked at an Indian (Native American) school where the entire school recieved free meals as the majority of enrollees were low income.  I am sure that the meals we provided gave these children the only nutrition some of them recieved and I would be loathe to take away their milk- full fat or not- given the nutrients it provided.  To say that baked cheetos and 4% milk are nutritionally equal due to the similarity in amounts cholesterol and saturated fats is both ludicrous and dangerous.  Until you can show me that baked cheetos provide the same protein, mineral, and vitamin content, I say stick with the milk!

Kate

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You make sime very good points.

IMOP--the problem here is the Governor asking for a Ban on junk foods.

In otherwords one must create a definition of "junk" foods. Then in essence a blacklist is established.

Foods are looked at out of context and assigned a value or non value.

Silly and sheer folly.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

The real problem is not neccessarily "junk" foods whatever they are-but the fact that meals should consist of different foods in appropriate portions that eaten together--provide nutrition and pleasure in eating them.

What we have here is the "I am gonna ban evil foods" syndrome that makes good sound bites--our politicians are hard at work protecting our children etc. rather than taking a positive approach and actually doing something that will get good results.

[jsolomon]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

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I think they have in the past. That's how we got the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs.

Why don't we additionally use modern research on weight loss and training principles to help these kids move and develop.

Do primary schools still make kids wait 45 minutes after eating to have recess? Mine did, but that was 2 decades ago.

[Patrick S]

Quoting selectively is what you do when you wish to single out one particular part of a larger statement, like your factually erroneous implication that baked Cheetos and whole milk have similar "amounts cholesterol and saturated fats". You may not like having your errors singled out and corrected, but that's the risk we all take when we participate in these discussions.

Patrick S, Kate was elaborating on comments made in the original article.

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I was addressing comments made by Kate, not by the original article, so my comments should have been and were directed at her. And the article did not make the claim that Kate made, which is that baked Cheetos and whole milk have similar "amounts cholesterol and saturated fats".

Edited December 14, 2005 by Patrick S (log)

[JohnL]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

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I think they have in the past. That's how we got the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs.

Why don't we additionally use modern research on weight loss and training principles to help these kids move and develop.

Do primary schools still make kids wait 45 minutes after eating to have recess? Mine did, but that was 2 decades ago.

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The sad thing is, the real root of the problem is not addressed by guidelines (which are fine for what they are).

I would ask:

what happened to mandatory gym classes?

and what happened to nutrition and hygene being taught?

I would then ask :where have the parents been?

(See the thread on child obesity and advertising etc)

everyone seems to have a handy solution that involves banning something or regulating something or taxing it but there seems to be an aversion to facing up to the fact that we created these situations and if we take responsibility we can rectify them.

[Darcie B]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

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I think they have in the past. That's how we got the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs.

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Using the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs, you will get this: (From the Kanawha County, WV schools website.)

Dec. 6 - Breakfast: Hashbrown Patty w/Toast (I’d like a little starch with my starch). Lunch: Salisbury Steak w/Gravy (probably processed crap), Mashed Potatoes/Green Beans, Fresh Kiwi/School Made Wheat (notice it does not say "whole wheat") Roll /Milk

Dec. 7 - Breakfast: Fresh Yogurt Cup, Nutra Grain Bar. Lunch: Baked Cajun Fish,

Brown Rice Pilaf/Steamed Corn/Strawberry Gelatin w/Fruit, Breadstick, Milk

Dec. 12 - Breakfast: French Toast Sticks. Lunch: Double Stuffed Cheese Pizza, Corn/Cucumber Slices, Hot Apple Crisp, Milk

Dec. 19 - Breakfast: Scrambled Eggs, Bacon/Biscuit. Lunch: Beef BBQ on Kaiser Bun, French Fries/Baked Beans, Fresh Apple/Milk

Dec. 21 - Breakfast: Super Nutritious Donut (I am NOT making this up). Lunch: School Made Pepperoni Roll, Tossed Salad, Pears/Tortilla Chips w/Salsa, Milk

Does this sound like something you would want to feed your kids? I don't think we can lay all the blame all on parents for their kids' unhealthy eating habits...

However, I don't think that the Illinois proposal would do much to alter these menus. It seems misguided.

I agree with all who say that in addition to offering nutritious foods, we need to emphasize exercise and nutrition education, especially exercise. One of my neighbors refers to another neighbor's children as ghosts, because they are never outside. The two girls get no exercise other than the meager P.E. offering in school. (The boy works out with weights in the basement.) The parents don't encourage exercise and won't let the girls (now ages 13 and 16) leave the yard for fear of molestation or abduction. (We live in a very safe suburban neighborhood.) I think is becoming the norm rather than the exception. But how do we counteract this trend?

[TPO]

The real problem is not neccessarily "junk" foods whatever they are-but the fact that meals should consist of different foods in appropriate portions that eaten together--provide nutrition and pleasure in eating them.

Agreed, but I think the argument could be made that exposing children to a variety of foods is the parents' job, not the schools. For kids paying for a school lunch, it is a choice. Parents could help kids choose a variety of foods in appropriate portions and put them in a brown paper bag each morning.

Although I'm sure the Illinois proposal is far from perfect, I don't begrudge a state for trying to put together rules that will allow them to create a mix of relatively nutritious foods that kids will actually eat.

As for making lunch a pleasure to eat, I'd start by giving kids more than 20 minutes to eat.

[kalypso]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

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I think they have in the past. That's how we got the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs.

Why don't we additionally use modern research on weight loss and training principles to help these kids move and develop.

Do primary schools still make kids wait 45 minutes after eating to have recess? Mine did, but that was 2 decades ago.

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A bit of ancient history, or at least 20th century history.

The federally funded school lunch program began in 1947 and was a direct outgrowth of the shortage of recruits during World War II. You need to go back a few years before that to the Great Depression when food *was* scarce and people did not get enough to eat, this included growing children. As a result, but the time WWII came along there were a substantial number of men declared unfit for duty because they carried the after-effects of malnutrition from the depression. So to prevent this situation for future wars, Congress enacted the National School Lunch Program and modeled it after a program Great Britian had implemented after WWI for exactly the same reasons. For the first 25 years or so of it's existence, the NSLP was part of, and administered by the Department of Defense. The meal pattern that was established was based on providing ONE meal per day, and reflected the eating habits and patterns of the late 40s.

Up until approximately 1997 - yes, folks it took 50 years to get a change in meal pattern requirements enacted - the basic meal pattern for grades 3 - 12 was: 3 oz. of Meat/Meat Alternate (a meat alternate would be considered cheese, peanut or other nut butters), 1- 1 oz. bread serving, 3/4 Cup (combined) serving of fruit/veg from 2 different sources and an 8 oz serving of milk. Until the early 70s there was also a 1 Tsp. per meal requirement for "fat" which was mostly commodity butter added to canned vegetables. (If you attended grade school in the 50s of 60s, now you know why the cafeteria veggies always tasted better than at home, they were sporting a health dose of real butter)

Around 1971 Richard Nixon transferred oversight of the NSLP from the DoD to the USDA. At that point it pretty much became a commodity support program for the USDA and was folded into the existing entitlement programs that had been established during the Johnson administration as part of his Great Society program. The NSLP was never intended to be a hungery safety net program, but that is one of the ways the transfer of oversight changed the program.

Yes, your FEDERAL tax dollars are funding the NSLP, not your State or local tax dollars. Do you have any idea how much of that actually gets to a school district's NSLP program. A Free lunch is reimbursed at $2.10, a Reduced price lunch at around $1.70 and a Paid meal at around $ .40. From that reimbursement a District's lunch program must pay for it's food, labor (including school district benefits, which are generous), capital expenses, indirct expenses and anything else a District cares to charge the program. That's right, in many cash strapped states, a school District will charge it's own program money to operate. Let me ask you all this. What kind of meal can you mass produce to appeal to a wide audience of tough critics - and there really is NO tougher critic than an 8 or 10 year old - comply with a myriad of federal regulations, hit nutritional targets and cover all your expenses so that you don't infring on your District's General Fund? It ain't easy. If you're a needy District it's easier because the sheer volume of Free/Reduced priced meals will eventually cover most of your expense, but if you're a District with 60% or less Free/Reduced it's exceedingly difficult.

Are there things wrong with NSLP? You bet, after 55 years it now is a flawed program. But I can honestly say that the school lunch folks have done and continue to do a poor job of educating the public about what they do, how they do it and the challenges they face.

[kalypso]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have some nutritionists apply some science and common sense here and develop balanced meals as a whole.

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I think they have in the past. That's how we got the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs.

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Using the current USDA guidelines on Federal School Lunch programs, you will get this: (From the Kanawha County, WV schools website.)

Dec. 6 - Breakfast: Hashbrown Patty w/Toast (I’d like a little starch with my starch). Lunch: Salisbury Steak w/Gravy (probably processed crap), Mashed Potatoes/Green Beans, Fresh Kiwi/School Made Wheat (notice it does not say "whole wheat") Roll /Milk

Dec. 7 - Breakfast: Fresh Yogurt Cup, Nutra Grain Bar. Lunch: Baked Cajun Fish,

Brown Rice Pilaf/Steamed Corn/Strawberry Gelatin w/Fruit, Breadstick, Milk

Dec. 12 - Breakfast: French Toast Sticks. Lunch: Double Stuffed Cheese Pizza, Corn/Cucumber Slices, Hot Apple Crisp, Milk

Dec. 19 - Breakfast: Scrambled Eggs, Bacon/Biscuit. Lunch: Beef BBQ on Kaiser Bun, French Fries/Baked Beans, Fresh Apple/Milk

Dec. 21 - Breakfast: Super Nutritious Donut (I am NOT making this up). Lunch: School Made Pepperoni Roll, Tossed Salad, Pears/Tortilla Chips w/Salsa, Milk

Does this sound like something you would want to feed your kids? I don't think we can lay all the blame all on parents for their kids' unhealthy eating habits...

However, I don't think that the Illinois proposal would do much to alter these menus. It seems misguided.

I agree with all who say that in addition to offering nutritious foods, we need to emphasize exercise and nutrition education, especially exercise. One of my neighbors refers to another neighbor's children as ghosts, because they are never outside. The two girls get no exercise other than the meager P.E. offering in school. (The boy works out with weights in the basement.) The parents don't encourage exercise and won't let the girls (now ages 13 and 16) leave the yard for fear of molestation or abduction. (We live in a very safe suburban neighborhood.) I think is becoming the norm rather than the exception. But how do we counteract this trend?

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While the menu posted above may not appeal to you - and is certainly not one I would ever have considered - you really don't know what's in it or how it was made. You can never, ever take a school lunch menu at face value. This is due largely to the heavy usage of USDA Commodities, without which the school lunch program would never survive. 25 years ago school districts got the commodites in bulk and cooked from scratch. They can't do that now because - 1) they can't afford the labor, and 2) they can't find the skilled labor. So.........the USDA allows food manufacturers to process the commodities into end use products.

For the most part this isn't as bad as it sounds. Any company wishing to process commodites has to submit a ton of certified information about the nutritional value, yields, amount of commodity used, serving information, ingredient information, etc., as well as having an inspected facility. The process is fairly long and pretty involved. States have processing agreements as well in place with many local manufacturers and schools can elect to have their commodity allotments diverted to manufacturers so that what arrives at their doorstep is easily usable. Commodity processing significantly reduces the cost to a school district. For example a case of pizza that might cost $65 for 96 slices without commodities, probably costs around $16 or $17 dollars for the exact same product made from commodities. That non-commodity pizza costs $ .67/serving whereas the commodity processed pizza costs $ .17/serving. Multiply that out by the number of pizza meals a school might serve and that's the savings to the school that commodities will make.

Like most things, though, commodity end products are not all created equal. Some are better than others and will provide better nutrition than others. The variety is fairly wide and is this way to allow a district to select the product(s) that best fits their needs or their budget. I guess that fully 80% of the items listed on the menu above are commodity or commodity processed......including the fresh produce! That Salisbury Steak (crap) is most likely USDA Commodity ground beef. The Double Stuff Cheese Pizza is mostly likely made from USDA cheese, including reduced fat cheese, USDA tomato paste, and USDA flour, USDA shortening.

Now, as to the Super Nutritious Donut, THAT is a bastard product. It most likely comes from a company called Super Donut that makes a variety of breakfast pastry type items out of any USDA Commodity it can figure out how to use. They used to have an item call Super Donut Hole that was fortified with every vitamin and mineral known to the Western world. It tasted god awful, but was extremely popular. By the way, the company Super Donut is owned and operated by Franco Harris of Pittsburgh Steeler fame.

Almost all lunch meats in a school lunch program are turkey based and many of the items that appear to be what they really are, have been processed into something that is either highly fortified, drastically reduced in fat or otherwised modified to make it fit within the USDA nutrition guidelines.

As parents I would encourage any of you to make friends with you local school lunch Director. Many of them do not, I repeat do not have a background in nutrition. If you come on like a ton of bricks accusing them of poisioning the kids, not being concerned about nutrition, serving crap, etc, they're going to be pretty defensive, but if you begin asking questions about what it is their serving, where it came from, can they give you a copy of the nutrient data sheets (and they have to have one for every single product they serve), ask what the percentage of fat is in the meals per week, and that kind of thing, you're most likely going to get an answer. Some will still be defensive - they are, unfortunately, used to getting beat up by the media and people (in general) that don't understand how the program works. But others might welcome the the attention.

I gotta run, I have an appointment, and if I keep going this will turn into a book. Just remember what a school lunch menu looks like on the surface rarely is truly reflective of what it really is........on many levels.

[hjshorter]

kalypso, thank you so much for weighing in on this. Your posts have been eye-opening.

[SuzySushi]

Yes, thanks, Kalypso! A very interesting overview of how the NSLP works.

The stringent (and old) requirements of the NSLP are also, for instance, why public schools can't serve vegetarian meals using tofu as a meat substitute: it's not recognized as such for school lunches by the USDA.

[jsolomon]

I, too, thank you, Kalypso. I do not knock lunch servers at schools, because I know how hard the ones that served me worked, and what they had to work with. 20 years ago, they were doing a bang-up job.

Now, do to slightly changed regulations, the school I went to has to cater in food because the kitchen can't cut it, and they can't afford a new kitchen and/or more staff.

I do have to agree with SuziSushi on the tofu issue. That is ludicrous to say that plant protein (and tofu is a complete protein) isn't equivalent.

There are many areas where I see the difficulty the USDA is up against with the school lunch program, and every time I see something more about it, they are being reactionary and adding more stringent regulations which make it more difficult for the individual schools to turn out a quality product at a good price that fulfills needs and comforts. It makes me quite sad.

That is one reason I am pushing for upheaval with the USDA food lunch program. It's old enough and poorly cared for enough that it is strictly reactionary and can only give unfunded mandates. It also seems to be working on very old assumptions which don't work in modern America--especially with the changes in our understandings of nutrition.

Of course, none of this absolves the parents of any responsibility, but both environments foster each other.

[Darcie B]

Thank you for the insight, kalypso.

I certainly don't want anyone to think I am getting down on school lunch cooks or servers. They don't make up the menu, and they have a thankless job feeding hundreds of kids every day. I sure don't envy them.

I do know that in this school district, at least, the double stuff cheese pizza is a purchased product, not made with commodities. I have friends who are teachers and my husband was a teacher, so I have seen many local school kitchens firsthand, and there was less commodity food in those kitchens than would be indicated by kalypso's post. Again, that might just be this school district; I assume there is some leeway for getting products. Most of the school cooks in this district are food heaters; other than biscuits, dinner rolls and pepperoni rolls, they don't do much from scratch, commodities or no.

Basically, what I am saying that there is room for improvement.

[JohnL]

I, too, thank you, Kalypso.  I do not knock lunch servers at schools, because I know how hard the ones that served me worked, and what they had to work with.  20 years ago, they were doing a bang-up job.

Now, do to slightly changed regulations, the school I went to has to cater in food because the kitchen can't cut it, and they can't afford a new kitchen and/or more staff.

I do have to agree with SuziSushi on the tofu issue.  That is ludicrous to say that plant protein (and tofu is a complete protein) isn't equivalent.

There are many areas where I see the difficulty the USDA is up against with the school lunch program, and every time I see something more about it, they are being reactionary and adding more stringent regulations which make it more difficult for the individual schools to turn out a quality product at a good price that fulfills needs and comforts.  It makes me quite sad.

That is one reason I am pushing for upheaval with the USDA food lunch program.  It's old enough and poorly cared for enough that it is strictly reactionary and can only give unfunded mandates.  It also seems to be working on very old assumptions which don't work in modern America--especially with the changes in our understandings of nutrition.

Of course, none of this absolves the parents of any responsibility, but both environments foster each other.

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I also thank Kalypso for providing some much needed information and perspective!

what is happening IMOP is we are trying to assign responsibility to institutions that go beyond their capabilities.

The government should do what it does best: that is provide information and support to local schools.

Schools should focus on teaching and providing a good environment for learning. They also need to provide physical education and extra curricular activities.

Parents need to be parents!

It is better and more efficient that schools focus on educating kids about nutrition and health and exercise. They will have a good chance of growing up to be good parents!

I would argue that for decades schools tried scare tactics and bans regarding smoking. The problem did not go away--in fact, it is arguable that smoking among kids increased.

It is only recently that the focus has shifted to education--when people learn about the effects of smoking (the facts) and are free to choose--they invariably will not choose to smoke. Smoking has become "uncool" and kids are actually "lecturing" parents that smoke!

So too with diet and eating habits. Schools need to teach and they need to promote exercise by encouraging participation in sports and making gym classes mandatory and fun!

We need to stop looking for quick fixes via banning things and scare tactics.

[anzu]

Quite a few people here have stated that there should be physical education in schools:

Do American schools not actually have physical education classes in school?

[jsolomon]

Quite a few people here have stated that there should be physical education in schools:

Do American schools not actually have physical education classes in school?

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American schools have been offering less and less physical education/training in the last few years because of budget cuts, and an increased thrust to teach kids information. "No Child Left Behind" is one of the most current acts which requires schools to teach up to certain testable standards (and IMHO is a horrible implementation)--and is a laughably funded mandate.

How does this affect schools budgets? Well, money to fund those mandates comes out of PE and food budgets, either directly or indirectly.

So, we end up teaching kids about the 50 states' capitals and not about how to cook. Nor do we provide good food examples in the lunch rooms.

[kalypso]

Thank you for the insight, kalypso.

I certainly don't want anyone to think I am getting down on school lunch cooks or servers. They don't make up the menu, and they have a thankless job feeding hundreds of kids every day.  I sure don't envy them.

I do know that in this school district, at least, the double stuff cheese pizza is a purchased product, not made with commodities. I have friends who are teachers and my husband was a teacher, so I have seen many local school kitchens firsthand, and there was less commodity food in those kitchens than would be indicated by kalypso's post. Again, that might just be this school district; I assume there is some leeway for getting products. Most of the school cooks in this district are food heaters; other than biscuits, dinner rolls and pepperoni rolls, they don't do much from scratch, commodities or no.

Basically, what I am saying that there is room for improvement.

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Darcie

You're absolutelycorrect, there is room for improvement. Lots of improvements.

A District's commodity allotment is directly proportional to the percentage of Free and Reduced price students it claims. Districts with a lot of Free/Reduced, which tends to be the large, urban, inner city districts, get far more commodity goods than do districts with a smaller enrollment of Free/Reduced kids. Eligibility for a Free or Reduced priced meal is determined by the percentage above or below the government established poverty line. So districts that are more affluent, where the majority of the parents aren't even close to the poverty line will most definitely get fewer commodities to work with. The assumption is that if the district is affluent it has parents that can afford to either send a lunch with their child(ren) or pay full price for the lunch. Doesn't exactly happen that way.

And a final comment on commodities, many commodity processed products will come in boxes that look exactly like retail. Chickens that are processed by Tyson, for example, will come in a standard Tyson box except that somewhere on the box will be an identifier that indicates the product has come from a commodity source.

As parents you all have a voice and all it takes is one dedicated voice that is willing to sound like broken record over and over and over letting people know that what's being served isn't in the kids best interest and that it can be done better. It'd be best to have a few ideas in mind about how you'd make it better, but my contention has always been that if change is going to happen it's going to have to start at the local level as kind of a grassroots thing. Parents can accomplish a lot more in a school than I think they realize, they just have to understand it's going to be a lot like that salmon swimming upstream Institutions are hard to move and even harder to change, which is why they're vulnerable to small incursions, kinda like King Kong on the Empire State Building swatting at airplanes. Choose the food battle you want to fight, stick with it, and you can most likely facilitate the change you'd like to see.

Edited December 15, 2005 by kalypso (log)

[Jujubee]

As sourced from the FitDay.com software:

Vitamins and Nutrients in 2% vs. whole milk:

....................2%.....................Whole

A................20%.......................42%

B-6..............8%........................17%

B-12...........37%.......................79%

C.................3%.........................7%

D................49%.......................98%

E..................1%.........................3%

Calcium.......30%.......................64%

Folate...........3%..........................6%

Copper..........2%.........................9%

Iron..............1%..........................3%

Magnesium....11%......................26%

Manganese.....0%.........................5%

Niacin.............1%.........................7%

Phosphorus....33%......................73%

Riboflavin........37%......................78%

Thiamin............9%.......................18%

Zinc................12%......................27%

I think they ought to offer a choice.  I have always bought whole milk for my family--it's so satisfying that the young ones only want one glass and they're full. Given a choice between nasty, watered down 2% millk and soda, I'd choose a soda.  Besides, calcium relaxes and calms kids.  Take pity on the teachers!

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Um, are you sure those are for the same serving sizes? Because I know for sure that 8 oz of skim milk and 8 oz of whole milk both contain 30% of the RDA of calcium. Looking at that list, it seems that the percentages are roughly doubled in a lot of categories for the whole milk.

I'm not saying that whole milk should be banned and baked cheetos allowed, but I don't think this data is accurate.

[Rebel Rose]

Um, are you sure those are for the same serving sizes?  Because I know for sure that 8 oz of skim milk and 8 oz of whole milk both contain 30% of the RDA of calcium.  Looking at that list, it seems that the percentages are roughly doubled in a lot of categories for the whole milk. 

I'm not saying that whole milk should be banned and baked cheetos allowed, but I don't think this data is accurate.

←

Yes, that was brought up before. I don't think my software is accurate--I did not double the quantities. And the RDA vs. DV figures are vastly different of course, and the software is different than the website values, so . . .

nevah mind!

[Marmish]

Quite a few people here have stated that there should be physical education in schools:

Do American schools not actually have physical education classes in school?

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American schools have been offering less and less physical education/training in the last few years because of budget cuts, and an increased thrust to teach kids information. "No Child Left Behind" is one of the most current acts which requires schools to teach up to certain testable standards (and IMHO is a horrible implementation)--and is a laughably funded mandate.

How does this affect schools budgets? Well, money to fund those mandates comes out of PE and food budgets, either directly or indirectly.

So, we end up teaching kids about the 50 states' capitals and not about how to cook. Nor do we provide good food examples in the lunch rooms.

←

NCLB has definitely impacted all kinds of programs. Don't get me started.

Illinois is the only state with mandatory PE. In my school, students have PE daily, except for the quarter they take health during that class period. The focus has shifted from team sports to lifelong fitness. They still do sports, but they also do a 10 mile walk/run, rollerblading, yoga, aerobics and a unit on weightlifting/cardio circuits.

Today as I walked the building, the 7th grade health class had nutritional data from a variety of fast food places. They had "ordered" their favorite meal, then calculated the nutritional data for that meal. They then had to revise their "order" to fall within healthy guidelines based on fat content, total calories, etc. Some ways they chose to do this included choosing smaller serving sizes, choosing a drink other than soda, or choosing different items altogether.

Our school lunch program is totally outsourced. It comes prepacked in a cellophane wrapped hot pack and cold pack. Students who pay full price pay $2.10 per day. Reduced is, I think, 40 cents. It is totally Frankenfood. I ate the taco one once. I wouldn't touch the others with a 10 foot pole. We also have an a la carte program. Our parents group was concerned about the offerings. Students would make a "meal" out of hot fries or chips and gatorade. We removed all chips and cookie type products. They didn't object to ice cream, so we still have that, as well as a variety of pretzels, granola bars, and Ritz bits. Twice a week, they can buy nachos with cheese dip.

It's frustrating when students walk into school in the morning with a full size bag of hot fries or chips and tell me that is their breakfast. I was so happy the day I saw a girl standing outside waiting for the bell to ring with a big piece of fried chicken on a paper plate. At least she was getting some protein.